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Napoléon I 1805 - 1815 ToTPP and Lua scenario updated to v1.2

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario League' started by tootall_2012, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

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    Hi countmc,

    Thank you for your feedback. As Knighttime indicated, in addition to the Cadiz event syntax error, there appears to be a small logic error related to the war of the 5th Coalition that is a consequence of the cities you may have failed to conquer during the war of the 4th Coalition.

    As I may have mentioned in a previous post, it’s not possible for a designer to foresee all the different combinations that all the players may pursue. It appears your particular play through has revealed one of those unforeseen combinations, which has brought to light an event-based logic error that may only occur under specific conditions.

    Glad to hear it. The Hussars plays a rather critical role in the game and without them you can find yourself quite blind as to enemy dispositions.

    This is something we can’t seem to reproduce. Can you provide the September file before the first November month were the notice stop occurring?

    As indicated above, there was a syntax error that we will be correcting.

    Just some quick follow up questions:
    • Did you achieve naval supremacy before January 1808, because according to the event file you cannot get it after that date?
    • What was the naval score at the time when you achieve it?
    • Did you find it was easier to get naval supremacy in version 1.1 versus 1.0; i.e. did you find the revised naval component of the scenario (the new naval shells, ships cannot fire in port, submarine flag only for Fregate units, etc) to be more or less challenging than before?
    • Was Villeneuve’s Caribbean task force able to make it back safely to French ports and if so, as a consequence, play an important role in establishing naval supremacy?
    Just to confirm, you were able to establish naval supremacy, prevent England from capturing more than 1 Spanish city and captured all 3 Portuguese cities without having more than 12 units in Iberia prior to January 1808? And as a consequence, received the message that the Franco-Spanish alliance was renewed. Correct?

    Once you achieved naval supremacy I assume you were granted the Naval transport tech that allowed you to build naval Transport units? Have you tried to invade England?

    I will try to get the latest fixes in as soon as I can, though I can’t give an exact time yet
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  2. countmc

    countmc Chieftain

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    Attached Files:

  3. countmc

    countmc Chieftain

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    Sorry, I just realized I wrote all my replies to your questions in the quoted text above.
     
  4. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

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    I need to review your save game first to confirm but it appears Knighttime identified Thorn as the problem city. Though the city isn’t required to defeat Prussia in the war of the 4th Coalition, during the war of the 5th Coalition it is a city France needs to retain control of to prevent Russia from joining that coalition and therefore also a city you must have to defeat Austria in that war.

    My design mistake was to assume that though Thorn wasn’t a required city to defeat Prussia, that players would proceed to capture it all the same to secure the strategic Kustrin – Posen – Thorn road that allows French units to easily transit through Prussia to the Polish-Russian border (a critical junction for all players planning to invade Russia).

    Absolutely. It must have been very frustrating before not knowing what enemy units where in a city that you were preparing to attack.

    That is pure happenstance, as the event file is programmed to give Villeneuve a 1 in 4 chance to appear starting on turn 1, and as such he can typically show up anytime between the first 4 turns.

    Achieving Maritime Supremacy was supposedly designed to be very difficult to accomplish, as it would have been historically, but players keep surprising me by their ability to meet the objective.

    As such, should I consider increasing the number of British vessels to kill to 18?

    He was undoubtedly taken out by a Spanish vessel while that country was still a French ally. It’s possible that the notice only occurs if he’s killed by a French vessel. I will have to double check.

    Should still be able to confirm if he’s killed by checking on the Leader Death Board (accessible by pressing on the ‘d’ key).

    Okay, I will double check why you appear to be repeatedly getting the prompt.

    If you already secured the Franco-Spanish alliance and manage to subdue England, you should well be in the driver’s seat towards achieving an Automatic Victory.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  5. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

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    Hi countmc,

    After reviewing your saved games, I was able to confirm that it was indeed the city of Thorn that was preventing you from defeating Austria in the war of the 5th Coalition. As I mentioned previously, though it wasn’t a city required to defeat Prussia in the war of the 4th Coalition, it is one of the cities you needed to possess, not only to prevent Russia from joining the war of the 5th, but to defeat Austria in that same war.

    As such, I’ve added Thorn as a required city to defeat Prussia in the 4th Coalition and also added a message at the start of that war that it is highly recommended to capture the cities of Kustrin and Posen if players wants to secure the strategic Kustrin-Posen-Thorn road network.

    I fixed the syntax error that was preventing Cadiz from being transferred to France when the Franco-Spanish alliance is renewed. I also modified that event to delete any Spanish units that may have been located in Cadiz or Madrid, at the time, otherwise this prevented France from entering these cities with its own units. In exchange, at the time of the transfer, I create a few French controlled Spanish Line infantry units to maintain “law and order” in these 2 cities. After that, it’s up to France to ensure the security of Spain from further British activities in the Peninsula.

    I tested the issue you reported having with the season swap not working with your September saved game, but despite my best efforts I simply cannot reproduce this problem (and neither could Knigthtime). I tried with the 1.1 event file and the newly modified event file, and when November comes around the file swap and related message occurs as expected. Maybe this problem was somehow caused by the Cadiz event error you experienced. It’s hard to say but for the time being there isn’t anything I can think of doing since I’m unable to reproduce it.

    I rechecked the Nelson issue you reported and noticed that he was neither an active unit or in the list of English casualties. In this case, I suspect the reason you didn’t get a message he was killed is probably that at some point the AI must have re-homed him to one of the Portuguese cities and when you captured the one he was homed to he was simply eliminated. Though it is counter-intuitive, we noticed during our testing that the AI had a nasty habit of re-homing many of the coalition leaders to cities even though when they are generated they were always homed to None. This was causing an issue were many of these leaders were being eliminated by the French simply by capturing the corresponding cities. As such, we created a mechanism that always re-homed these same leaders to None whenever the AI activated them, thereby ensuring that this problem wouldn’t be an issue anymore. For some reason I forgot to add Nelson to this list, which I have now done.

    I also took a closer look at your ability to achieve Maritime Supremacy and believe I understand what allowed you to be so successful (I think your score was 21 to 1). As such, I’ve decided to make a few extra adjustments, which I hope should give a little more balance:
    • There is now a 1 in 2 chance that Villeneuve can get killed after a naval combat, instead of the previous 1 in 3
    • I increased to 18 the number of British vessel that need to be killed to achieve supremacy
    • I’ve added a little extra naval task force, that hopefully should make Villeneuve’s attempt to rejoin French ports more difficult
    Let me know if there is anything thing else that you feel could make the battle for supremacy more challenging.

    In your December 1808 save game, I noticed that you had a few Russian units caught behind your Garde Frontalier units west of Warszawa. This is probably due to the fact that you didn’t fight along the Kustrin-Posen-Thorn corridor during your war of the 4th Coalition and therefore when the peace occurred there were some residual Russian units caught behind the lines. When you are able to impose a peace treaty during the war of the 4th Coalition, I have a mechanism in place that deletes any Russian units that are caught anywhere within 5 tiles of the Prussian side of the Russo-Prussia-Polish borders. I’ve extended the area to try and eliminate units that may have been beyond that region.

    I noticed that you were able to build Austrian Foot Artillery units in the city of Ancona (you had even produced one unit already). At first, I wondered how this was possible as normally when you capture an enemy city, the item in the production queue is the DO NOT USE unit. But then it occurred to me that during the war of the 3rd Coalition that you probably didn’t conquer that city but rather received it as part of the peace treaty. Is that correct?

    Of course, it shouldn’t be possible for France to build any type of Coalition power units, so I modified the code that, though it won’t prevent you from building such a unit if you receive a Coalition city as part of a peace treaty that was producing such a unit at the time of the transfer, that the same said unit will immediately get deleted as soon as the city finishes producing it. Therefore, there will be absolutely no incentive not to switch production once you get the aforementioned city.

    Finally, I have to admit I was caught a little in admiration of your apparent generalship skills. Just in terms of comparison of total casualties between our last playthroughts, in which you waged very successful campaigns against the Austrians/Prussians and made very good progress in Spain:

    December 1807: tootall 34 units lost (incuding 17 RdL) vs countmc 20 units (including only 6 RdL)
    December 1808: tootall 49 units lost (incuding 20 RdL) vs countmc 32 units (including only 10 RdL)

    This is in addition to your extremely successful Maritime Supremacy campaign!

    So I have to ask, do you find the game is challenging enough?

    Overall, in terms of coding, these were relatively minor changes. I will probably take another day or so to do some further small tests but then I should be able to have a small version 1.2 Release this week (in which I will only include the modified event and scn files).
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  6. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

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    EDIT: I was just doing some additional testing with the help of your September and December 1807 saved games you provided, and I noticed that in the September save you had achieved 9 British naval kills, whereas 2 months later in December 1807 you had totalled 21 kills.

    Is that correct? Did you manage to kill an additional 12 kills during those 2 months? Or are these save games from two different play throughs (I know you indicated at one point that you restarted the scenario mid-point when you started encountering your issues).

    I'm trying to understand if the 21 kills were garnered over a longer period or whether you managed to get those 12 extra kills in 2 months partly through the fortunes of war whereby you were presented with an unexpected rich set of targets?
     
  7. countmc

    countmc Chieftain

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    I thought the naval aspect of the game was challenging. The way you set up the scenario I basically had to follow through on the strategy Napoleon tried of combining his fleet in the Med, with the Spanish, with his Brest squadron. Unfortunately, he got caught by the Brits and Nelson off the coast of Spain and was defeated. In the game after the Med squadron of the Brits was destroyed there basically was a large British fleet concentration around England (the home fleet) and that was it. If there was a way to keep a somewhat strong squadron around Gibraltar that would add to the difficulty of achieving naval supremacy.

    If I am remembering the disparity in the naval kills it was because I was able to get my combine fleet into Brest, defeat large number of British ships that were off of Bristol, and then that next turn a large number of British ships sortied out to attack my fleet. My three deckers were battered but able to hold on and defeat another large number of British ships. Essentially I achieved a naval supremacy by fighting three naval battles against the Brits, one destroying their Med fleet off the coast of Naples, and then fighting two battles destroying fleets off the coast of Bristol.

    I also think a couple, somewhat more radical changes could happen that would be interesting. Have an event or city that needs to be captured for the French to receive some of the Spanish fleet.
    One possibility is to have the British holding Spanish port early on with major fortifications and if the French take it they could receive some ships of line? Just some general musings, but a big part of the lead up to the Battle of Trafalgar was the maneuvering of the French to combine their fleet with the Spanish fleet to give them numerical superiority over the qualitatively better British fleet. Putting a stronger British naval presence around Gibraltar to prevent French fleet coming together would definitely make the game harder, but to balance that out I would come up with a way for the French to potentially receive Spanish ships.

    Another idea would be to create a reason/objective for the French to get re-engaged in Egypt. Historically, Napoleon thought of using Egypt as a base to march to India to defeat the British, even after his initial invasion and failure. I understand that would be a major re-write of the game, but would be very interesting. To create almost a financial incentive for the French to invest in the conquest of Egypt. It would also force far more naval action in the med and keep the British being more heavily invested in that theater.

    Historically, the French actually conquered the island of Corfu to keep a Russian squadron out of the Adriatic. It would be interesting if you could do the same thing in the game. I don't know if you could maybe use a teleport set up like you have in Denmark. Maybe until the French take Corfu the Russian have Frigates created on a regular basis in the Adriatic that are doing shore bombardments or until Corfu is conquered you have the Brits doing landing parties on the Italian coast.

    Part of the design could be trying to get the French to leave their protected bases. I kept my fleet in port until strong enough and chose the time and place of my fight against the Brits. If there was a reason to move a fleet to Ireland to cause trouble for the Brits? Historically, Napoleon was constantly trying to slip fleets out of the blockade to cause trouble for the Brits in peripheral theaters. I know this is hard to create using only a Europe map when truly, in many ways, the Napoleonic wars were global conflicts with major actions in North America, Latin America (if you include the Spanish colonies wars of independence), conflict in India, the fighting in Egypt, and the general British policy of taking all of the open Dutch colonies once the French took the Netherlands. It is hard to show that global aspect of conflict, but you could maybe code a reason and way for the French to invade Egypt or Ireland.

    I know that puts you in a bind with the objective of taking the English objective cities, but you could go down the path of tradition and say the only way for the French to land troops in England is through channel barges that are only created once Naval supremacy is achieved.


    As to my more general strategy in the game:
    1. I try not to get overextended, hence why I did not conquer all the other Prussian cities that then have to be held.
    2. I try and fight my battle to the last German! I use my neutral infantry to aggressively take casualties to avoid French bloodshed
    I think it is a testament to your game that I am in both naval strategy and land strategy essentially following what Napoleon did.

    One last recommendation, that I still stand by, is to give the French the ability to have Saxon troops when that conquer Dresden, with the caveat of if/when the Russian/Austrians/Prussians 'liberate' certain cities the Saxon units are disbanded and new ones rise to join the Coalition. It would be a way to show how the Saxons switching sides during the Battle of Nations (Leipzig) was a major factor in the French defeat in that pivotal battle.

    Overall, this and the Vietnam scenario and the Russian Revolution scenario are the three that have the greatest replay value to me. I enjoy this one greatly, it is super challenging and the Spanish Ulcer really makes it hard. Under these new events I have not made it far enough to take on Russia, but my assumption is that is nearly impossible.

    Hope this helps. None of my thoughts are meant in anyway as a criticism to your creation of this scenario, which I am hugely enjoying.
     
  8. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    Although things have been VERY busy in RL of late, I'm going to try to finally set aside a block of time to serious have a good play at this, and Sealion as well, or have good game starts, this weekend.
     
  9. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

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    Hi countmc,

    Thank you again for all your feedback. They are very much appreciated and have helped me address some unforseen errors.

    Of all the designs elements, controlling the AI naval units in Civilization is by far the most difficult and unpredictable. I’ve encountered many occasions in testing this scenario where British naval units would just sail by French ships without attacking.

    I actually have various British naval squadrons pop up both in the Mediterranean and Baltic seas during the scenario. The problem is once they are deployed, there is almost no way to predict their overall behavior or control their actions.

    A human English player would jump on every opportunity to sink French vessels; thereby making France’s bid for maritime supremacy difficult in the extreme. Unfortunately, there are very few tricks in the designer’s bag to make the AI naval units adopt a sure fire aggressive stance.

    For certain, being able to gather the French naval forces into a large task force to attack the British navy is a good strategy. As you indicated, I ensured the French vessels are located in very different location during the opening set up, and have tried to place British naval task forces and insert move to command for said navy to try and prevent the French navy from gathering. Alas, as I indicated above, once the game begins there is simply no way to guarantee how the British navy will react.

    It appears, as such, that my only option is to increase the number of vessels the French need to kill to achieve maritime supremacy.

    Though an interesting idea, this would kind of conflict with my whole Portuguese intervention event, since to be able to attack these British held cities would require France to enter Spain itself.

    I thought about trying to include some kind of Egypt event but in the end decided against it for 2 reasons 1) because Napoleon had already attempt this in 1798 and it was ultimately a failure and therefore it was unlikely that he would attempt it again and 2) even though as you state below this was to an extent a global war, I needed to limit it to the European theater for the very obvious reason that the size of the map limited the scope of the conflict.

    This is an interesting idea as well, though I would be concerned that players might complain, not necessarily unjustly, that they were losing too many land units to these shore bombardment activities, as was the case for the northern French coastal cities.

    As mentioned previously, trying to represent the global conflict was simply beyond the scope or ability of this scenario to tackle. Like for Egypt, I did consider trying to implement an Ireland based event but again it seemed, at the time like it would have been a mere sideshow with no real value.

    I actually started out with the idea of using barges but in the end decided against it as it still would have made it too simple for France to invade England. As you may recall, Napoleon had assembled an army of 200,000 men at Boulogne, which was less than 20 miles across from the enemy coast, but was reluctant to proceed with the invasion until the necessary conditions were met, hence my idea to implement the Maritime Supremacy concept.

    There already is a similar type of event that occurs starting in 1813 if France fails to hold on to certain central European cities. For the event to trigger really depends on how well, or poorly, your are doing at the time.

    Were you referring to my Vietnam scenario?

    I’m pleased to hear players keep referring to the Spanish campaign as the ulcer or some similar synonym, as it means it was properly crafted.

    The Russian campaign has always given me my share of headaches, though McMonkey seems to have developed a winning strategy when he played the scenario.

    I always appreciate players’ feedback and very often take them into account in my revised versions. In this particular case, you’ve offered a lot of interesting ideas, though some of which would require a substantial effort to implement and test.

    In the same vein, players shouldn’t be offended if I don’t implement all of their recommendations, as there can be a variety of reasons why I might have chosen not to do so.

    As I may have already indicated to John Petroski, I started working on this project probably a little over two years ago and it’s been a long road, in which I’ve invested many many hours, and overall I’m happy with the results. I’m not entirely closing the door on revisiting some of the proposed changes but for certain not in the near future. For the time being, I would like to move on to a new project and challenges.

    For the short term, I will limit myself to releasing version 1.2 of the scenario in a day or so, based on your invaluable feedback related to the Franco-Spanish alliance and war of 5th Coalition bugs.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  10. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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  11. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

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    Hi Prof. Garfield,

    I actuality got a sneak peak at your latest lesson a few days back when I was browsing through the Scenario League links... :)

    Unless I'm mistaken, you may have been referring to the Nelson issue whereby countmc was reporting that he apparently vanished without a trace. In this particular case the problem wasn't that he was disbanded because he was homed to a city that was captured, but rather that he was assigned to a city by the AI in spite of the fact that when the event file creates him he is homed to NONE (and this same problem was occuring to other Coalition leaders).

    Knighttime had written a little function a while back that re-homed all the leaders to NONE whenever they are activated by the AI. Unfortunately, I had forgotten to add Nelson to the list.
     
  12. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Yes, the Nelson issue is what I meant. I should have gone back to check what the issue was in order to be more specific. Your method is probably sufficient (I suppose the AI could rehome the unit after it is activated, and have it disbanded the following turn), but going through all the units when a city is captured to check if anything is homed to that city that should not be (and, then, change the home city) is another alternative. It also means not running a check for every AI unit that is activated.
     
  13. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

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    Hi all,

    Thanks to countmc’s play through of version 1.1, he detected some minor problems that had eluded previous play tests and as such I thank him for providing this valuable feedback.

    As a consequence, I made some adjustments to the event and scn file, which have been released on the Scenario League website (see post #1 of this thread for the link).

    Here is the latest list of modifications:
    • Fixed a syntax error that was preventing Cadiz from being transferred to French control after the Franco-Spanish alliance was renewed
    • Added Thorn as a city required to defeat Prussia in the war of the 4th Coalition
    • Updated the Appendix D of the ReadMe, to reflect the actual victory conditions for the wars of the 4th and 5th Coalitions
    • Increased Villeneuve’s chance to be killed in combat to 50%
    • Increased the number of British vessels required to achieve Maritime Supremacy to 18
    • Added Nelson to the leader list that gets re-homed to None, whenever the AI tries to assign him to a city
    • Added a function that deletes any Coalition units that are built by France. The ability of France to build a Coalition unit may occur when a Coalition city which was in the process of producing a unit is transferred to France as part of a peace treaty. The deletion only occurs at the time that the unit is actually built, not when it is in the process of being produced. Therefore, just like for the DO NOT USE unit, you should switch to another production type when you gain possession of such a city.
    • Various other small modifications
    If you've already installed version 1.1 of the scenario, you only need to download the Updated Files v1.2 zip, which contains the modified events.lua and Napoleon.scn files. Simply download them into your existing scenario folder and they will overwrite these 2 files.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    gapetit likes this.
  14. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

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    Hi all,

    Gapetit has created a new collection of graphics for the scenario, which I would like to share with the community on his behalf. They include the following:
    • Cities.bmp and CitiesM0.bmp: a new set of city graphics for all the powers
    • Icons.bmp and Improvements.bmp: a new set of City and Wonder improvements
    • Units.bmp: many updated French naval units and a more suitable positioning of the blue icon on the Minor Power units
    I've attached them to this thread, so feel free to download them and use them as you please.

    Thank you Gapetit for this updated collection!
     

    Attached Files:

  15. countmc

    countmc Chieftain

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    Played through a few times, at first was able to get the ability to research Russian Invasion. Now that is not an option after I defeat the Austrians for a second time. Am I missing something? I usually have the naval victory over the British option, does that negate invasion of Russia?

    I even took scenario off my PC and re-downloaded and played all the way through again and still doesn't give me that option.
     
  16. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

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    Hmm, in all my many play throughs I've never had an issue with getting the Russian Invasion to work porperly. It worked fine in my last version 1.1 full play test and my latest v1.2 modifications had nothing to do with that partcular event.

    So let me ask the following questions:
    • So in your last play test you are confirming that you successfully defeated Austria in the war of the 5th Coalition and therefore received the text confirmation that this is so?
    • If yes, when this happpens the event file sets the following variable state.austriaTreatyOfSchonbrunn == true (this is variable that confirms that Austria has been defeated in the 5th Coalition).
      • On the next turn, if you turn on the Cheat Menu and do Control-Shift-F3 this will bring up the lua console. If you look for the variable above, is it set to true?
    • When the variable is set to true, there is then a 1 in 10 chance per turn that the event file will grant you the "Russian preparations" tech. It will check each turn until the event occurs (though there is a 1 in 10 chance per turn it could theoretically take more than 10 turns for the trigger to return a positive result):
    Code:
        if state.austriaTreatyOfSchonbrunn == true then
            if math.random(10) == 9 then        -- "9" is arbitrary, we want a 10% chance or 1 in 10
                JUSTONCE("x_Received_Russian_Preparations", function ()
                    grantTech(France, "Russian preparations")
                    ----
                end)
            end
        end
    
    When the random trigger occurs you should not only get a message saying that you've received the tech but you should see it in the Science Advisor screen. Are you able to confirm if on any of the turns after the Austrian defeat whether you see the "Russian preparations" tech in your science advisor screen?
    • Once you've received the "Russian preparations" tech on the next turn that you are able to select a new advance to research you should have the "Invasion of Russia" as one of the advance options to select.
    • Finally, once you've researched the "Invasion of Russia", the event file will remove the Russian border tiles and set a state of war between France and Russia.
    Let know if you've seen any of the above conditions?

    All the same, are you able to send me the saved game just the turn before you managed to defeat Austria in the war of the 5th Coalition?

    There is no relationship between establishing the Maritime Supremacy and the Russian Invasion, but just as a final question:
    • Are you saying you once again managed to achieve Maritime Supremacy and if so what was the score?
    • If this is the case, I'm perhaps going to have to make another change, perhaps by reducing the initial French naval OOB by 1 or 2 capital ships.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  17. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    I've started playing this scenario (I put it off in part since using the bat files is a bit of a hassle under Linux and WINE). It is very well done. I'm currently at July 1808, and just subdued England. I achieved Naval Supremacy in July 1807.

    The game is challenging enough to be interesting, but not so challenging that I can't be successful while figuring out how everything works in the first play through. (I did re-play the first couple months two or three times as I learned how things were supposed to work. Perhaps a small "boot camp" scenario would be a worthwhile addition.)

    Naval supremacy didn't seem all that hard to achieve. I largely ignored the Mediterranean Sea and merged the fleets I think as quickly as possible (maybe I did something in the Mediterranean, but whatever it was, it wasn't much). This had very little ill effect. A few units were destroyed by naval bombardment, but the English never tried to land to take advantage of the missing units. In fact, since many of them were Neapolitan Infantry, there was no ill effect, since they didn't cost anything but time to replace. I built at least one Trois-ponts using plunder units. A Trois-ponts seems to pretty reliably defeat the English Three Decker (or, maybe they were Two Deckers attacking), so a stack of ships relatively close to port is largely invulnerable, and even if some ships are killed, the counterattack with another unit will make a kill anyway.

    I like the replacement track for units, it makes a choice between trying to risk/expend allied units versus using the better French units. It also means I'm willing to risk losing the Garde Imperiale at the correct time, since it will be back for the next campaign. It nicely avoids the "too good to use" problem. The expiration of L'Elan Napoleonian makes me care about not wasting Line Infantry (much of what I did lose was trying to defeat units with a sliver of HP, sometimes to gain veteran status.

    I like the fact that most cities can't do much other than make the Money Market. It significantly cuts down the micromanagement. However, you may want to consider marking the French cities that can build useful things on the map, since the improvements are only placed at the start anyway.

    Suggested Improvements:

    1. You use the :activate() function when a munition is generated. This is good and convenient, but the game doesn't run the onActivateUnit event when a unit is activated in this way, so the leader bonus is not automatically applied to munitions, meaning that one always has to use 'a' to re-activate the munition. I suggest running the code for onActivateUnit after the :activate() function is called. I can do this for you if you like.

    2. Put the read-me information either into the civlopedia or as text that can be called up from events. I spent a great deal of time going back and forth between the readme and the game trying to figure out how things work. It would also be nice to call up active "score" for ongoing events (like Naval Supremacy, troops in Iberia) along with the explanation of the goals/consequences.

    3. Small thing: I figured out how to do lines in the Help function without using the checkboxes. It's currently in OTR Code (but you'd have to look for the event upload with the helpkey.lua file). The key is
    Code:
            helpWindow:addText(func.splitlines("Attack Value: "..tostring(helpUnitType.attack).."      Firepower: "..tostring(helpUnitType.firepower)))
            helpWindow:addText(func.splitlines("\n^".."Defense Value: "..tostring(helpUnitType.defense).."    Hit Points: "..tostring(helpUnitType.hitpoints)))
            helpWindow:addText(func.splitlines("\n^".."Movement Rate: "..tostring(math.floor(helpUnitType.move/totpp.movementMultipliers.aggregate))..roleText))
    
     
  18. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    508
    Hi Prof. Garfield,

    Thank you for taking the time to post your feedback.

    I’m starting to see that despite my previous attempts in version 1.1 and 1.2 that I have failed to significantly impact the player’s ability to achieve Maritime Supremacy. This is turning out to be a significant Achilles heel for the scenario, as the ability to subdue England is a major factor in opening up a path to a decisive victory for France (i.e. without England, Spain becomes a much easier target to defeat and the other Coalition Powers cease to receive British aid when at war with France).

    Achieving Maritime Supremacy was supposed to be a very difficult objective to complete so I now see I’m going to have to revisit this again in a future version. My initial thoughts are:

    · Increase the required score to 24
    · Reduce the Trois-ponts ability to produce 24pdr shells to one per turn (no more ability to hit and run)
    · Slightly increase the defensive value of British naval units to make them more difficult to destroy
    · Slightly decrease the cost of Coalition vessels and increase the cost of French vessels (this hopefully would also help the Coalition vessels be more aggressive)
    · Perhaps reduce the opening French navy OOB

    These changes would have to be tested, but I believe they would require France to make a real commitment to a naval strategy if it truly wanted to defeat England on the seas, potentially at the risk of making itself more vulnerable to the land actions of the other Coalition powers. Let me know if you think this makes sense?

    Can you tell me what your maritime score was?

    Also you seem to have subdued England relatively quickly. In my last play test, by the end it took me about 50 units and a year and a half to invade and defeat England. In your experience, was defeating Britain challenging enough (keeping in mind that this island nation had the smallest land army of all the Coalition powers)?

    I’m not sure a ‘boot camp’ scenario would be a worthwhile addition. It appears that most players to date have typically played a few months, maybe gotten an initial bloody nose, learned from their mistakes and simply started a new scenario much the wiser.

    The fact that Britain didn’t try to land units in empty ports could be related to what date in the scenario you have reached. As I recall, England doesn’t receive its first naval transport unit until early 1807.

    This again is one of those aspects that are difficult to control. Prior to the British receiving the Royal Marines advance, I provide the Royal Navy with a succession of transports. In some scenarios, I’ve seen the AI use them effectively to capture coastal cities and other times I’ve seen them sail by a city that is unoccupied. Unfortunately, a designer only has a limited number of tools when it comes to controlling the AI behavior.

    Since many players have indicated they have at times gone to some length at avoiding taking French Line Infantry losses in the opening years, I believe I will need to review this somewhat as this isn’t realistic behaviour at all.

    As such, I will consider modifying the code to include French Minor Power infantry losses as part of the calculation for “L'Élan Napoléonien”.

    I’ve never personally had a problem identifying these French cities but at the same time it’s not particularly difficult to add a label on the map either. I will make a note of this.

    These are all interesting suggestions and I will add them to my list.

    I will be curious to know, if like countmc whether you run into any issues related to the ability to invade Russia. As I mentioned to him in the previous thread above, I never encountered this problem myself, as the ability to receive the "Russian preparations" tech after the defeat of Austria in the war of the 5th Coalition and to subsequently research the "Invasion of Russia" afterwards has always worked before.

    I’m still hoping he will send me his save file so I can check but if you encounter this issue as well let me know.

    If you have any recommendations on making the scenario more challenging, I’m open to suggestions (though I will keep in mind that you are undoubtedly one of the most experienced players around :)).

    As I may have mentioned, I’m currently working on a new project and as such I don’t plan on working on a Napoleon version 1.3 till after the summer but I will be happy to keep taking notes on any ideas or to hear if anyone has found some previously undetected bug.


    EDIT: I forgot to ask, after achieving Maritime Supremacy were you able to renew the Franco-Spanish alliance as well or did you subsequently end up going to war with Spain?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  19. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,256
    Location:
    Ontario
    In July 1807 (some time in the middle of the turn, probably when I realized I should save this info) my score was England 19 vs France 4.

    Note: When trying to make the console display this information, I noticed that

    Code:
        if turn ==31 and state.englandIsAtWarWithFrance == true and state.englishNavalUnitsKilled <= 14 then
           civ.ui.text(func.splitlines(impHQDispatch_Failed_Establish_Supremacy))
       end
    
    This should probably be 18 (in fact, you should probably define the needed naval kills as a parameter at the top of the file, and refer to it whenever it is needed, so you can make changes in one location only).

    This is a difficult one. I suspect that it could go from too easy to impossible quite quickly, or depend too significantly on luck. I don't know how much increasing the cost of ships will help. I was starting to send plunder back for the purposes of building ships, and I still have some that I'm now saving for some other purpose. It will be rather difficult to have ship construction make France vulnerable on land. I think the two ship building cities together have some 40 shields worth of production. You would have to balance the scenario very closely to make that the breaking point between enough troops and too few troops.

    Perhaps you could introduce a per unit cost for ships (like for trains militairs).

    I renewed the Franco-Spanish alliance and I think that very turn the English landed and I had to retreat out of Lagos in order not to lose a unit while I grouped my forces in Portugal for the counterattack. (I think I sent away my cavalry by that time.)

    I think I had about 30 units in England, including Napoleon and a lot of horse artillery, maybe more after some units were killed. I also heavily bombarded London and Bristol (and some of Liverpool) from the sea to help defeat the forts. I think the British army was an appropriate size for the historical situation. It should be difficult to beat England based on the navy and the Channel, not the British land army.

    Perhaps there could be an event where, once a significant number of troops are in England, the other coalition powers break their peace treaty and invade. This would prevent sending too many troops to England and reducing defences in the East.

    And here I was thinking it was a feature, that Napoleon would care more about French troops than allied troops, and that the loss of too many French troops would weaken him politically.
     
  20. tootall_2012

    tootall_2012 Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    508
    Unfortunately, at this point, I’m uncertain if my latest version 1.1 changes have made it easier for players to achieve maritime supremacy or whether they have just become wiser in the handling of the French navy and how to defeat the Royal Navy.

    Oops, looks like that was an oversight on my part when I modified the condition during version 1.2. I will add it to the list of things to do.

    I agree that striking the right balance is definitely tricky. I’ve been trying to do so for the past two years and, unfortunately, still haven’t been able to find the right combination.

    This is a very interesting idea, worth taking into consideration.

    Achieving maritime supremacy certainly increases ones chances of renewing the alliance substantially. As such, at this time, it’s unclear if any changes are required here.

    I agree here as well but as you have certainly experience already, getting the British navy to be that shield is extremely difficult.

    Another interesting idea though it would certainly be a challenge to implement as there are already some pretty complex conditions for triggering the various Coalition wars. Getting the Coalition powers to react in case of a British invasion might throw a wrench in the current Coalition Wars sequence logic. But this would be worth investigating as well.

    I’m not aware of Napoléon sacrificing allied troops in order to preserve French troops during the war. As far as I know, French units were always at the fore front of all his major campaigns and suffered casualties accordingly. If anything, I believe the oppposite is true, i.e that he relied heavily on the quality and drive of his Frenchmen to win his victories.

    And this was the purpose of this particular event, i.e. to reflect the negative impact that all these battles ended up having on the French manpower reserves.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019

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