Nation Bashing

[Jason The King]

Originally posted by naervod

So what if America's army is not the best trained or equipped. We're still more powerful than everyone else, and we control over half of the world's naval power.

Non americans are not going to like this .

Anyways, well done naervod, basically what I have been saying this whole time.

Can't wait to see what the anti-americans have to say about our arguments .

Jason

 

[aaminion00]

Anyone who sais that the United States isn't one of the 31 greatest civilizations of all time does not know what they're talking about. I challenge any of the people complaining to actually give me 31 civs that are of greater historical importance than the United States has been.

That said, I don't like having the Americans in my game. Simply because they are not native to the land they occupy on the world map.

 

[naervod]

Originally posted by Jason The King


Non americans are not going to like this .

Unfortunately, it is the truth (maybe arguable, but most people would say it is).

 

[Sgt.Hellfish]

Yes it is true America is a super power woop de doo, dosnt mean they can go galavanting around on their own and control the world though. Anyway i thought the US was deemed to be the best equiped? Also you do realise that you have basicly compared the US with Britain about 100 years ago. Although our armies ahve allways been very well trained.

 

[Sheep]

What happened to Rome?
What happened to China?
What happened to Britian?
What happened to Spain?
What happened to France?
What happened to Germany?
What WILL happen to America?

Yes this is a list of leading world powers at one time or another. What happened? They were surpassed. What will happen to America? They will be surpassed. It is inevitable. If it was America vs the World, the world will win, it worked against the Germans it will work against you. Just because America has awesome power does not mean they can use that to boss people around? Why because the rest of the world outwighs the American state.

However not only that by 2040 it is a onsidered fact that China will be once again more powerful than America! Noit believing me? I don't ask you to do this but something like this will happen in the not too distant (historical timeline) future. What will happen then though, assuming this does happen? What will happen? If America stays together, returns to power, didnt diintergrate under pressure of the loss of power. If this happened than America would be a civilisation under its own right, until it will not!

This is what this topic was started for. However I am not also going to retract my anti-Americanism. Why because they are hypocritical, they support freedom fighters while killing terrorists. However the other side sees American freedom fighters as the terrorists and they support our terrorists as freedom fighters!

In the end I think all people of the world, but especially Americans who see and care little of it (World News makes 5% of the Network News in America while in Australia its 50% of nightly news) need to learn more of it, so they find out that their nation aint the best, those nations they think as corrupt merely diffrent and not to look their nose down on the rest of the world.


i conclude with this. A old chrisitan prayer, something Americans need to learn. ' May God give me the serenity and forberance to accept the things I cannot change, The Courage to change the things that need it And the Wisdom to know the diffrence!'

 

[erez87]

Wow sheep in your list...
Rome was broken by German Barbarians.
China I don't consider a world power in that time, cause they prety much were a World power all the time until being beaten by England.
Britian was prety much broekn by Germany.
Spain was never ever a World power. France and Britian (and Germany) Were always stronger. Biggest does not mean strongest. If they were biggest at all.
France was broken by Prussia and England. Prussia=Future Germany.
Germany (finaly a world power of their own) were broken up by USA.
What will break USA? You can say that not Germany They broekn up enough powers.

Probably somthing else, cause there are no barbarian raids anymore. and the prety much no more Empires in the world.

So a new quastion. Every power fall, USA will fall, a matter of time. But what will bring their downfull?

 

[Jason The King]

Originally posted by Sheep2
What happened to Rome?
What happened to China?
What happened to Britian?
What happened to Spain?
What happened to France?
What happened to Germany?
What WILL happen to America?

Yes this is a list of leading world powers at one time or another. What happened? They were surpassed. What will happen to America? They will be surpassed. It is inevitable. If it was America vs the World, the world will win, it worked against the Germans it will work against you. Just because America has awesome power does not mean they can use that to boss people around? Why because the rest of the world outwighs the American state.

Who ever said it did outweigh the world? America is the single most powerful nation in the world, doesn't mean it is more powerful then the rest put together.

However not only that by 2040 it is a onsidered fact that China will be once again more powerful than America! Noit believing me? I don't ask you to do this but something like this will happen in the not too distant (historical timeline) future. What will happen then though, assuming this does happen? What will happen? If America stays together, returns to power, didnt diintergrate under pressure of the loss of power. If this happened than America would be a civilisation under its own right, until it will not!

So your saying only after America has gone through a test will it be a true civlization? That test being surpassing another nation who should become a world power? This makes no sense, sheep. Your saying it has to be a world power, die down, and then become it again?

Oh and btw, you think China will be a better world power? Just think about it.

This is what this topic was started for. However I am not also going to retract my anti-Americanism. Why because they are hypocritical, they support freedom fighters while killing terrorists. However the other side sees American freedom fighters as the terrorists and they support our terrorists as freedom fighters!

There is a difference between Al Queda bombing American towers can they hate America and Palestinian suicide bombers. I know this. The American government knows this. What you do is you standardize America to seem like we all think the same way. It is a democracy, we think differently, and we have a right too.

In the end I think all people of the world, but especially Americans who see and care little of it (World News makes 5% of the Network News in America while in Australia its 50% of nightly news) need to learn more of it, so they find out that their nation aint the best, those nations they think as corrupt merely diffrent and not to look their nose down on the rest of the world.

Matter of opinion sheep. You see Saddam as just a difference of opinion, I see him as a murdering dictator who has killed thousands of his own people.

i conclude with this. A old chrisitan prayer, something Americans need to learn. ' May God give me the serenity and forberance to accept the things I cannot change, The Courage to change the things that need it And the Wisdom to know the diffrence!'

I'm not Christian, and neither are a lot of Americans .

Jason

 

[Warman17]

Originally posted by Sheep2
' May God give me the serenity and forberance to accept the things I cannot change, The Courage to change the things that need it And the Wisdom to know the diffrence!'

OMG. thats the same prayer thats over the little arch/doorway leading into my dining room. My mom loves it and so did her dad. Wow, i never thought that other people actualy knew it. I always thought that it was like a family prayer or something, lol.

and that isn't a christian prayer. it's a jewish one . it's from your "old testiment" probobly thats why you think it's christian. but lets not turn this into a religion thing here.

Alright now on to the matter at hand.

America: To civ or not to Civ that is the question.

Well i must admit America is not that old, only 227 years to be exact, but i do not believe that dosen't bar us from being considered a civilization. A civilization is a bnand of people who share common culture and are united into a singal nation. Therefore Saudi Arabia is a civilization. I do not believe the Native American tribes besides Inca, Maya, Olmecs, Aztecs, Iriqouis etc were civilizations because they didn't band together. they are all seperate. So really any modern nation can be considered a civilization, it is only in anciet and medival times when historians have to decide weather something is or is not a civilization.

America IS a civilization. Now on to the matter. "Is it good enough for Civ 3".

Considering America is one of the first civilizations included in Civ 3, this has coaused much controversy as others demanded sa better civ be put in, atleast a better UU . I believe every civilization from Arabia to Zulu should be included into Civ3, unfortuently that just isn't possible as the game dosen't support that many civs. The decision to include America as a civ i believe is explained on the civ 3 website so go there. This comes to the final question

"Arn't there better civs then America"

The answer is simply, yes. I believe there are. The Spainish, or Sumerians which they later included i believe would have made a better first choice. Then again wasn't the game made by Americans for a more american market? So the answer to why America is in the game is probobly so it sells more of the American market. Money is the only reason here floks.


I do not want to argue about the real world so no more talking from me about America will occur, unless of coarse it deals with being in civ3. Afterall America wasn't included in Rise of Nations, being outshadowed by others such as Incas, Mayans, Turks, Koreans, Mongols, Bantu and Nubians. All of which (-Nubians and Bantu) were included in ptw or conquests. So perhaps America should not have been the first choice, but it should not be the last. I hope in the upcoming expansion pack to RoN, America will be included, just to prove it's a worthy civ(and according to the 'Patriots" part in the title, it is a high possibility)

 

[Oruc]

why wasnt America included in RoN it didnt make sense to me

 

[Warman17]

well it's in the expansion so don't worry

 

[RoddyVR]

[spam]
oh my god, you people are still on this? this completely pointless (and off topic) thread is bigger them MOST of the games in the forum.
[/spam]

considring the number of "forgoten" civilizations that didnt make it into the game i dont think that this discussion has merrit.
they put nations/countries/civilizations into the game because they CAN. you cant change it. get over it.
if you cant get over it, then mod the game to change that one civ you think is undeserving to be something else.

 

[Oruc]

quiet you

 

[Angelscotboi]

*sighs*

Its not evidence Nav but opinion.

All the inventions and evidence you say that is there is not American things the majority of it is derived from other countries and civilizations.
Some of it is taken from others and merged with other things taken from others to make something new.

The USA has very little original invention in comparason to the rest of the world.
This will probably change however because the American Government is starting - hopefully - to realise the USA isnt the centre of the world and has started in recent years to begin their own research projects which is good they will finally actually have something worth bragging about that actually came from them and not originally from someone else.

One day the USA will reach a point where it will reach Civilization status and deserve the spot in Civilization games it is given just because it is the worlds superpower.
And when it reaches that point it will probably be long after it has dissapeared - or become irrelevant on the worlds stage.

Like i said earlier the Age of the USA as the worlds greatest power is coming to an end as Globalisation gains momentum and the UN gains greater powers.

And since you all seem still unable to realise why I have stated why I would have the US in Civ 3 and what I like them in there for - I was going back to the original arguement for which this was begun; does the USA deserve the position of a slot in Civ 3 anymore than any other modern nation?

The answer being no - there are far more worthy nations.

Another question: Would I remove the USA from the slot it occupies?

Again no because of the reasons i stated earlier.

 

[Jason The King]

Seems like lmsw has ran out of gas, you give no new arguments, and you have nothing to back up your earlier arguments that were successfully rebuttled by EQ, naerovd, and myself.

Face it lmsw, America is just a civilization as anyother people you conisder a civilization. We have proven it against all your arguments.

 

[Constantine]

This debate is going nowhere execpt dividing our little community. Lets just let this die.

 

[Sgt.Hellfish]

You know emu i really wish teh USA was in RoN ive got loads of custom maps and scenarios with some dodgy old nation there that dosnt fit in. whats the point of crafting a world map and not having one of the nations you need lol (i like the WW2 era). Thats why i think the US should be in civ3.

 

[Angelscotboi]

Jason - I havent ran out of gas in the sense that you have successfully REBUTTED my arguement.

You havent. You have just proven what I already believe.

I was simply trying to bring the arguement back to what it started as and stop fighting over semantics because quite frankly you cant win and im tired of fighting with you.

 

[erez87]

People America is not a Civ cause it's a continent. Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceiania, Anatarctica, This are not Civs this are the names of continents.
USA is probably a Civ. Tought made of ALL others..

Now What is a American (United Stateser )?
I know whats a English man is, and a Scot and bla bla bla, nit what is American? You need an answer if he is part of a civilization...

 

[Jason The King]

Originally posted by lmsw08233
Jason - I havent ran out of gas in the sense that you have successfully REBUTTED my arguement.

You havent. You have just proven what I already believe.

I was simply trying to bring the arguement back to what it started as and stop fighting over semantics because quite frankly you cant win and im tired of fighting with you.

How have I proven what you believed? Do you believe two different sides? This makes no sense, lmsw, you have lost. I can't win, eh? A normal person doesnt change subjects when they've won, lmsw.

Jason

 

[Finmaster]

If you people think that you can either "win" or "lose" these kind of arguments, then you are a lot dumber than I ever imagined you'd be..