Nationalism is not Good

[newfangle]

After much debate here at CFC (most of it pointless), I have come to the realization that nationalism is the cause of this world's problems. Take a look at the EU. With the exception of perhaps England, nationalism is practically a thing of the past. For Germany and France, nationalism caused many deaths in two wars. Russians are so damn sick of political change, a lot of their pride has diminished as well.

National pride is just pointless now. (Yes, I will change my avatar, but I have problems getting high quality ones). No one cares to hear national anthems at sports arenas. The biggest problem is that people will blindly follow their national leader, regardless of his intellectual prowess (cough *Dubya/Chretien*).

As the world progresses (it most certainly is), I would like to see such archaic ideals as nationalism completely fazed out. Clearly such concepts are useless now, espcially with instantaneous worldwide communications.

 

[Becka]

Thanks for the newsflash.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

I can't agree, it seems as powerful a motivator as ever.

And the world's problems are cause d by people, it doesn't matter what you call the political sytems, or anything else, for the most part people get along, but there will always be some that don't.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
I can't agree, it seems as powerful a motivator as ever.

And the world's problems are cause d by people, it doesn't matter what you call the political sytems, or anything else, for the most part people get along, but there will always be some that don't.

Just my 2 cents.

(I don't mean to spam ) but I must say I have to agree. Nationalism is/was just an excuse to hate another people. Now we can come up with a whole bunch of different reasons to hate people, too. But there will always be people who hate other people and the country they came from or the cause they support or the color of their skin is just a justification to do so.

 

[Switch625]

While I appreciate the insight into the inner workings of your mind, I have to tell you that you are living in a dream world. If nationalism were dead in Europe, then why are the French so protectionist? That's just one example. There are others.

Nationalism will always be with us. There will always be people who put the group above themselves. Who would rather have someone else do the thinking. Simple human nature.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

I know Becca, it's like the saying "If god didn't exist, man would invent him".

We invent new reasons for the ills that plague man, we change the names and the motivations, but it's always the same in the end, some people want their way, and will fight and kill to get it.

 

[newfangle]

Nationalism is fading. Its an Adam Smith- era invention. People don't feel proud of their countries any more. There will always be splits in the populice. I know I am very much an idealist, but imagine a world with all ethnic and political borders removed. Also, humanity would be better prepared for an alien invasion/enslavement, which will happen in a few years I assume .

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

If you really believe that post, your horribly sheltered.

 

[newfangle]

Which part of the post?

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

The part inbetween "Nationalism" and "assume".

 

[newfangle]

You say that now, but wait until ET prods your rectum with a 20 foot pole .

About the abolishment of borders: look at the most progressive place in the world, the EU. Even though nationalism still lingers, the borders between sovereign states are slowly fading. Its just a matter of time.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Sorry, but that isn't the case.

You make the same error many make, you equte an economic union with a political union.

They are VERY different, a greek is a Greek, a Frenchmen a Frenchmen, they don't, and never will cause themselves an EU.

In fact, the world has been heading AWAY from a one world government for some time, more and more people want little countries based on nationality, in other words nationalism, so your intial postulation is in gross error.

 

[Adebisi]

Nationalism in Europe? DEAD?



Have you managed to miss the sweap of nationalism that is going trough Europe? Le Pen, Haider and so on? Nationalism is far from dead in Europe, far, far from it.

If you dont like to associate yourself with flag waving crowds, you're still most likely a nationalist in some way. Even socialists can become nationalists without noticing it, especially in the socialist countries.

 

[amadeus]

Yeah, newfangle! You could join the national socialists!

 

[Adebisi]

And another thing, why would England of all countries be an exeption? Does it seem that way to you, because they are closer to the US and farther to the right in some ways?

 

[Adebisi]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Yeah, newfangle! You could join the national socialists!

It's a bit out off-topic, but I made a topic about that here some time before I joined the army, about how modern neonazis are actually far to the left. Nazism is an odd mix of extreme nationalism and social democray. They are weird people, really...

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

"Nationalism is Dead"

Yeah, right. My country is still better than your country.

 

[MrPresident]

You make the same error many make, you equte an economic union with a political union.

Give it time.

With the exception of perhaps England,

Actually England is probably the least nationalist country in the United Kingdom. Hell, we don't even have a national anthem (unless you count land of hope and glory which I don't). Of course during international football (or soccer) matches England is very much nationalist, like most of the world [*cough*] USA.

 

[newfangle]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Yeah, newfangle! You could join the national socialists!

I'll ignore that too. rm, it has become a waste of my time (and an insult) to reply to anything you say.

I say England is the exception because it has that whole isolation thing. It would almost be unnatural for them not to be nationalistic. It has nothing to do with their politics.

 

[Lab Monkey]

England has a rather limp, impotent kind of nationalism at work, really. It's a sort of seedy nationalism that hides behind it's dirty mac and occasionally pops out to scare the children.

As for Europe, their internal walls may be breaking down, but I don't see any change in their nationalist stance towards outside forces. Note also that I havn't included England in Europe. We are far closer to the US as Adebisi stated (though that's still a sticking point and a question of still more national pride), and the US seems to be being positively, well, positive about their nationalist stance at present (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't think it's a case of outright hate (as becca stated). More that it's caused by paranoia and insecurity, and an innate sense of cultural self preservation. And I can't see that coming down overnight, nor do I really see much benefit in such a thing at this time, until we can put our own houses in order, it would just cause chaos. No ethnic, cultural, or religious group has the tolerance to put aside their own dogmas and egos just yet, and many of these things are what gets the average person through the day. Don't take the crutch away until the broken leg has healed.