Native American Lineages Discovered in Iceland

[Cynovolans]

A new subclade of mtDNA haplogroup C1 found in icelanders: Evidence of pre-columbian contact?

Although most mtDNA lineages observed in contemporary Icelanders can be traced to neighboring populations in the British Isles and Scandinavia, one may have a more distant origin. This lineage belongs to haplogroup C1, one of a handful that was involved in the settlement of the Americas around 14,000 years ago. Contrary to an initial assumption that this lineage was a recent arrival, preliminary genealogical analyses revealed that the C1 lineage was present in the Icelandic mtDNA pool at least 300 years ago. This raised the intriguing possibility that the Icelandic C1 lineage could be traced to Viking voyages to the Americas that commenced in the 10th century. In an attempt to shed further light on the entry date of the C1 lineage into the Icelandic mtDNA pool and its geographical origin, we used the deCODE Genetics genealogical database to identify additional matrilineal ancestors that carry the C1 lineage and then sequenced the complete mtDNA genome of 11 contemporary C1 carriers from four different matrilines. Our results indicate a latest possible arrival date in Iceland of just prior to 1700 and a likely arrival date centuries earlier. Most surprisingly, we demonstrate that the Icelandic C1 lineage does not belong to any of the four known Native American (C1b, C1c, and C1d) or Asian (C1a) subclades of haplogroup C1. Rather, it is presently the only known member of a new subclade, C1e. While a Native American origin seems most likely for C1e, an Asian or European origin cannot be ruled out. Am J Phys Anthropol, 2010. © 2010 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

Pretty cool if they got the dating right. I'm actually interested in why this subclade hasn't already been detected in Native American populations.

 

[Lord Baal]

From what I read, it seems that the subclade is present in Native American populations. The surprise is that it's present in the Icelandic population, especially at such an early date. Not that Icelanders mixing with Native Americans would be evidence of pre-Columbian contact anyway; "centuries earlier" than 1700 still leaves plenty of time for people with some Native American blood to mix with the Icelanders without requiring it to be before Columbus.

 

[bombshoo]

How much was Iceland used as a stopping point between North America and Europe? At all?

 

[Cynovolans]

From what I read, it seems that the subclade is present in Native American populations. The surprise is that it's present in the Icelandic population, especially at such an early date. Not that Icelanders mixing with Native Americans would be evidence of pre-Columbian contact anyway; "centuries earlier" than 1700 still leaves plenty of time for people with some Native American blood to mix with the Icelanders without requiring it to be before Columbus.

C1 has been detected among Native Americans, its C1e that appears to be unique to these Icelanders.

 

[Lord Baal]

C1 has been detected among Native Americans, its C1e that appears to be unique to these Icelanders.

Ah. Makes one wonder where exactly it came from then, if C1e has not been detected in Native Americans. Similar to the Incas having a different cline to their neighbours, origin unknown.

 

[Berzerker]

there's a ~20 year old PBS Nova that'll explain this nicely... Search for the Lost Red Paint People is about a maritime archaic culture ringing the N Atlantic going back ~7500 years at least - on both sides. The tool technology - especially deep sea fishing - was very similar and the megalith culture also appears over here too. The burial practice of placing the corpse on a wooden scaffold until the bones were left before entombment was found in the Br Isles too.

Combined with the evidence of tools in France and Virginia dating back to the ice age, I figure - somebody else figured it first - the ice sheet bridged the N Atlantic allowing for old world peoples ~18 kya to travel back and forth. As the ice sheet receded Iceland and Greenland may have become (re) settled and peoples on both sides retained memories, legends, knowledge of the trans-Atlantic bridge or contacts with peoples across the ocean - later Europeans had heard plenty of tales of the land to the west so even the Vikings knew about the new world. I'm sure people in Alaska and Siberia didn't let that little stretch of water stop them from traveling back and forth after that land bridge disappeared under the water. A Tlingit legend places the Great Flood 14,000 years ago. I haven't seen many Laplanders (?) but they were undoubtedly part of this ice world culture ringing the world, and I've seen a few Icelanders who looked eskimo-ish...

 

[Lord Baal]

Except that the Eskimo people only reached Greenland after beginning in Siberia, and that land-bridge you're talking about didn't exist. Sorry dude.

Laplanders probably are related to Eskimos, but only because both started in Siberia. The pre-Eskimo ice-people in North America either died out or were assimilated by the Eskimo. Similar things happened to the ice-people of Europe.

 

[Verbose]

Except that the Eskimo people only reached Greenland after beginning in Siberia, and that land-bridge you're talking about didn't exist. Sorry dude.

Laplanders probably are related to Eskimos, but only because both started in Siberia. The pre-Eskimo ice-people in North America either died out or were assimilated by the Eskimo. Similar things happened to the ice-people of Europe.

I usually give the genetics stuff a wide berth... However... From what I understand of what's coming out of for instance the Max Planck Institut run by Svante Pääbo testing for this (among other things, like the research on the Neanderthals), so far attempts to find a clear genetic connection to Sibirian populations have been stumped. No connection to the Greenlanders etc. either. In their view the Laplanders might rather be (mostly) an isolate that got split from the main body of the general European population to the south around 15,000 years ago, with contact properly reestablished only about 1000 years before present.

Really, the first assumptions has for a very long time been that the Sami have an eastern origin. (This was the Big Idea about them in Scandinavian racial science in the 19th and early 20th c. after all.) So far no clear evidence they came from the east seems to exist.

Mind you, I don't think there's conclusive evidence either way. Pääbo et al's results are up to a decade old by now, but otoh the entire matter of Sami genetic origins seems to have been quietly dropped for now by archaeologists and geneticists alike in the Nordic countries. Results weren't conclusive, and we might never know. Of course, it also means there's no good genetic evidence of an eastern origin. They just might be unique, with no link stronger to any other group of people around them. Going by looks they certainly don't tend stick out in a crowd of Swedes or whatever.

Here's a bunch of Swedish ones apparently watching Sweden failing to score on the Netherlands in the Euro 2004 championships:

 

[Masada]

Sami are obviously alien isolates.

 

[Dachs]

As usual, I will pop in and drop a few words about the lack of a necessary connection between genetics and ethnicity

 

[Pangur Bán]

Probably from Amerindian slaves taken in "Vinland".

 

[Berzerker]

Except that the Eskimo people only reached Greenland after beginning in Siberia, and that land-bridge you're talking about didn't exist. Sorry dude.

Laplanders probably are related to Eskimos, but only because both started in Siberia. The pre-Eskimo ice-people in North America either died out or were assimilated by the Eskimo. Similar things happened to the ice-people of Europe.

These were Indians found along the NE coast, the Nova mentioned Eskimos reaching Greenland maybe 4 kya long after these people were sailing the Atlantic. As the ice sheet melted the voyage was much more dangerous and contacts became less common, but the legends persisted for 1000s of years.

 

[Verbose]

Probably from Amerindian slaves taken in "Vinland".

And considering how few the Icelanders were, and the 1000 years since these events (time for the genes to get passed around), it wouldn't take that many to make this kind of impact either. Apparently a bunch of shipwrecked Iberians in the 16th c. are showing up in the modern Icelandic genetic make-up (or so I've heard).

 

[Lord Baal]

These were Indians found along the NE coast, the Nova mentioned Eskimos reaching Greenland maybe 4 kya long after these people were sailing the Atlantic. As the ice sheet melted the voyage was much more dangerous and contacts became less common, but the legends persisted for 1000s of years.

So why have I seen no evidence of this from any source whatsoever? I have no doubt that pre-Columbian contacts took place, but what you are describing is a seafaring civilisation in the Ice Age. That flies in the face of all our knowledge of that era.

 

[Berzerker]

The Nova docu was about a post ice age maritime culture when sea levels were even higher than today ~7500 years bp and older. Another much newer docu on the pre-Colombian peopling of the new world presented evidence of peoples from France following the ice sheet across the Atlantic showing up in Virginia. The Younger Dryas appears to have wiped them out, or the bottleneck and subsequent absorption by others combined with the later melting of the ice sheet cut them off and effectively removed them from the scene. Now, Spirit Cave is a whole nother story... Thats some weird stuff there.

 

[Lord Baal]

I've never heard any of this from any source. I'd have thought whackjobs like Erick Von Daniken would have pounced on this as proof of aliens by now.

 

[Berzerker]

how would it be proof of aliens? Its actually proof of people moving about the globe without any divine help (or punishment, as in Babel?)

anyway, google 'lost red paint people' if you wanna do some reading on these people. But it does make sense, a tool technology found in France 20-15 kya shows up in Virginia shorty afterward when the ice sheet was still near its maximum. The Younger Dryas wipes out a bunch of people and later peoples come in and kill or assimilate the survivors, and as the ice melts, the people using it to cross the Atlantic retain knowledge of the ancient (pre-Flood) culture that once traveled between the old and new worlds. Google Spirit Cave, thats some weird stuff and Daniken aint involved.

here's wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_Cave_mummy

wrt the latter, the local Paiute have legends of these people, they trapped them in this cave and killed them off a few centuries ago.

 

[Xeus]

"This raised the intriguing possibility that the Icelandic C1 lineage could be traced to Viking voyages to the Americas that commenced in the 10th century."

It is a very strong possibility. There was, of course, a Viking settlement at L’Anse-aux-Meadows in northern Newfoundland. The hostility of local natives drove Thorfinn Karlsefni, his wife Gudrid, son Snorri (the first recorded white child born in North America) and 65-160 colonists, out after about three years. Thorfinn subsequently settled at his family estate in northern Iceland. There may have been native slaves, native converts to Christianity, native spouses, mixed blood children, etc. brought back with them.

A Native American origin does seem most likely. An isolated subclade would be more likely on an island such as New Foundland and could perhaps be a relic of the Maritime Archaic Tradition, or even the subsequent Palaeoeskimo peoples (?) that the Icelandic Vikings intermingled with.

 

[GoodGame]

As usual, I will pop in and drop a few words about the lack of a necessary connection between genetics and ethnicity

I wouldn't necessarily go there,

just re-cite the op quote:

While a Native American origin seems most likely for C1e, an Asian or European origin cannot be ruled out.

So in other words, they can't claim to have rejected or accepted it either way. *yawn*

It's about as intriguing as a statement made, without signficant evidence, "that UFO abduction stories might be true, or might be fabricated".

 

[say1988]

Not that it is even very significant if they can proove these genes came from North America.

We know, with absolute certainty, that there were people travelling between Iceland and North America a thousand years ago. There is no reason to think that there were no mixed native/norse children or even some people brought back by the Norse (i.e. as slaves).