Native relations & trade

[pvt chaos]

Ok, I found out that the more I trade with the native's the better my relations became. But does anybody have a clue how the mechanics behind it exactly works ? Is it the amount of trade or the number of trade's you make influential on the relations ? Like is it better to trade 100 times 1 sugar to improve relations or that doesnt matter and you can just trade 100 sugar in once ?

And does the desired goods of the native settlement also come in play ? Like if they want guns and you trade them guns you get a bonus in relations ?

Anybody who might have more insight in this ?

 

[CossackProblem]

Where you doyou trade with them anyway? They say they always need item-X, but how do I trade it to them?

 

[Feannag]

Where you doyou trade with them anyway? They say they always need item-X, but how do I trade it to them?

If the settlement is coastal, you can send a ship into it with the goods in question. On land you need to load the stuff onto the wagons and truck them in. It should behoove you to know that if you plan on trying to skirt the Crown's Tax trading with natives it's nice to start but that's about it. Each settlement seems to start with a set amount of gold, I'd wager between 2,000 and 9,000 gold, and with a slow gold regeneration (if any at all). And while they will glady pay a lot more for a whole load of goods than you could get in Europe it'll only take a couple of trips to bleed each one dry.

 

[CossackProblem]

Ah. I always just shipped my stuff back to the mainland. Thanks a bunch

 

[nbcman]

Each settlement seems to start with a set amount of gold, I'd wager between 2,000 and 9,000 gold, and with a slow gold regeneration (if any at all).

I think that it is on a per tribe basis not on a per settlement basis. Also, if you buy trade goods from them, the gold will go into the tribe's treasury. So it is usually best to sell 1st to maximize the amount of gold the tribe will have available to buy your goods.

 

[tour86rocker]

nbcman, by "trade goods" I assume you're not referring to the item that is called "trade goods", right?

 

[pvt chaos]

Ok, so far I think I figured out how the native's get money :

1. It will increase by a fixed (?) amount every turn, but its not much. Ive seen increase's between 10 and 20 gold a turn.
2. Trading with the Europeans, including yourself. So if another European power just traded with the native's there's a good chance that they got a bit more money in their pocket to burn.

Also it does seem that the amount of gold they have is indeed per tribe, but the offered goods they can sell is on village level. So each village will sell different goods, but they all share the amount of gold.

But back on-topic, anybody has leads to what improve's the relation ? I had a +4 modifier on relations with the Tupi but that was well after 300 turns in the game. Maybe any modders out there who already understand this mechanic ?

 

[Feannag]

Ok, so far I think I figured out how the native's get money :

1. It will increase by a fixed (?) amount every turn, but its not much. Ive seen increase's between 10 and 20 gold a turn.
2. Trading with the Europeans, including yourself. So if another European power just traded with the native's there's a good chance that they got a bit more money in their pocket to burn.

Also it does seem that the amount of gold they have is indeed per tribe, but the offered goods they can sell is on village level. So each village will sell different goods, but they all share the amount of gold.

But back on-topic, anybody has leads to what improve's the relation ? I had a +4 modifier on relations with the Tupi but that was well after 300 turns in the game. Maybe any modders out there who already understand this mechanic ?

As I have found this is what you do to keep the natives happy.

1. Trade with them often.
2. Occasionally give them gifts of desired goods.
3. Buy land when they ask and don't take.

No matter how nice you are you may get the -1 "Your way of life is harmful" one simply for being European expansionists. But as long as you trade them for stuff they want and give them gifts now and again they'll be peaceful.

Most of the time I connect my colonies with their settlements via roads. And in the event they offer me a settlement I'll just go over and build on top of the ruins.

On note of native treasuries, I still firmly believe it's on a by-settlement basis, and I'll attempt to prove/disprove that using the America scenarios and trading with different Inca villages.

And trade goods don't always mean trade goods. At the start they may want those, but their desires change as you trade with them and time goes on. Early on they usually want Tools, Horses, Guns, and Rum but again it's on a by settlement basis. The stuff each one wants is in the little settlement info bar, but the picture is sometimes hard to make out.

 

[kayapo]

I'm almost sure it isn't by settlement. For instance in many occasions i have only one city in range to witch i do all the business untill they run out of money. I go around and try the other cities of this same tribe only to see that they are now all out of money.

 

[pvt chaos]

Yes, me too. All the settlements of a tribe share the same gold deposit, only difference is that the settlements offer different goods to trade. So no use to go around the settlements looking for money, you have to visit another tribe and see if they still have some.

But maybe its intended, after all did the native's even have money ???

 

[r_rolo1]

It is not money... it is gold

 

[Blackmantle]

Yes. Its definately gold on tribe-level, goods on village-level.

So better buy their goods. Then they have more gold. It might seem like those things they sell are rather pricey. But overall it just means you can sell some more of the goods with a real good profit (like guns and horses.)
So unlike the Trade with Europe the Gold you hand to the natives is not "lost".

And i whould presume not only does trading effect the whole relations thing but makeing good trades for them or giving them things for free.

(and of course the usual way of engaging in a mutual military struggle with the natives vs. another european power. Best bribe them to declare first. Otherwise they will dislike that you declared on their "friends" )

I have to say i actually like this change from Col 1 alot. Limited Tresury for natives just makes sense (instead of a few tipis beeng "milkable" for the treasures akin in size to the cities of gold...). But thats a matter of tastes.

So ripping them off may make sense. But a long-term two-way relationship has its merits...

 

[pvt chaos]

Yes, being buddies with the native's has it advantage. I had a game where all the tribe's declared war on the king when I declared independence. Off course they were all armed to the teeth and gave the REF a good surprise welcome.

 

[Blackmantle]

Oh, so they don't even have to be bribed for that? They actually do it for free? Well that makes native-hugging even more powerful than it is anyways... Not that bribing them to do it is actually expensive i reckon?

Really time someone made a mod with inter-native rivalries. That whould add alot of spice to the game / diplomacy...

 

[pvt chaos]

Bribing the native's ? I never did that (well if you consider giving trade goods for free bribing, then yes).

No, I just trade with them alot, become good neighbours, arm them to the teeth and refuse any settlement they offer. Then they will happily go on the war path for the pale one.

 

[tour86rocker]

When Indians offer their settlement to me I tend to refuse, in hopes that they'll have warriors close by to help during my revolution. In practice, I don't think I've ever seen them attack the King even after declaring war on him.

I have, however, seen the King raze an Indian settlement because a unit of mine was on it.

 

[Feannag]

Well that was a first. I was implementing my plan, had two colonies up. Had the first coastal one and managed full master fishermen on 4 squares, was getting a new colonist every 3 turnes. Had lumberjacks and carpenters cracking out buildings are great neck speed. And even found a colony that had good food AND iron deposits. Apache attack me out of nowhere, killing my inland mining colony and bum-rushing my coastal colony.

Relations screen put him at "impressionable". I presume to you civ fanatics Imressionable is a doublt-edged sword. All the good you do gets better but all the bad you do gets worse.

 

[pvt chaos]

Probably he is impressionable, but did you had soldiers guarding your colony ? I believe the native's also look at your power rating, if you have no or almost no soldiers they see you as an easy target for a raid.

 

[Feannag]

Probably he is impressionable, but did you had soldiers guarding your colony ? I believe the native's also look at your power rating, if you have no or almost no soldiers they see you as an easy target for a raid.

I had on vet soldier, he came to the docks early so I de-commissioned the other one and made him gave his guns to the pro and had him Fortify. Guess I'll have to start paying attention to the diplomacy more, and he was impressionable.

 

[VLGoldenJew]

During one of my WoI, I had an indian ally declare war on the king. He didn't get to the front lines before I managed to sink the royal fleet and win, but somewhere around 10-15 braves were making their way through my colonies. If they had gotten there, they'd at least have died valiantly. I was impressed at the quantity sent, if not the quality (they hadn't got themselves any guns).