NATO declaration

[Ashoka]

With the NATO invoking paragraph Five of it's charter - an attack against one is viewed as an attack against all - how are our European posters in this forum feeling?

Also of note - - the BBC is showing interviews with Palestinians and others, many of whom are making comments such as "I hope they target Britain and Germany next..." (just to add fuel to the fire)

Will NATO involvement make it more likely that cooler heads will reign, or make it more likely to escalate?

 

[growthudemocracy]

I will quote an American Rock group REM,"It is the end of the world AS WE KNOw IT..."<br />So two superpowers can stare each other down for half a century and eveything works out fine...in the vacume of power left by Russia's decay a whole new set of rules is needed,"How can you fight a man who cares not for his own mortality???"

 

[stormerne]

Originally posted by Ashoka:<br />With the NATO invoking paragraph Five of it's charter - an attack against one is viewed as an attack against all - how are our European posters in this forum feeling?<hr></blockquote>

:shrugs: No different to normal. This is Europe. Warfare and terrorism has been with us here for many years, seemingly without ceasing. We've learnt to protect ourselves better from it, and we live with the possibilities and consequences of it on a daily basis. We heard the wake-up call a long time ago.

 

[H Tower]

I'm betting europeans are worried it could happen to them next. There are plenty of targets that would be worthwhile to strike if you were a terrorist.<br />NOTE:I am not advocating striking targets in europe, just pointing out that locations in europe could be struck as well.

 

[Ashoka]

Unfortunately, I think Storm is right- Europeans are probably much better able to handle this right now. Of course, our society is a bit more open - probably a bit too much - so we will be more vulnerable.

Tower- yep, I was just in Glenn Ellyn the other day for a work-related meeting! I moved to this area about 12 years ago, and I have loved it since the day I got here!

Ashoka

 

[SunTzu]

NATO isn't going to make our heads cooler. All i know is if Bush doesn't sign off a major military action, he's not going to be re-elected. in 04' <img src="graemlins/GoofyFrown.gif" border="0" alt="[Goofy Frown]" />

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by SunTzu:<br /><strong>NATO isn't going to make our heads cooler. All i know is if Bush doesn't sign off a major military action, he's not going to be re-elected. in 04' <img src="graemlins/GoofyFrown.gif" border="0" alt="[Goofy Frown]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep.. and we all know that re-election is FAR more important than people's lives.

I find this just friggin GREAT. God damn hill billy George dubbya Bush with his finger on the button is going to drag the whole North Atlantic Treaty Organization into a friggin war.

 

[H Tower]

Originally posted by RedWolf:<br /><strong>

Yep.. and we all know that re-election is FAR more important than people's lives.<br /></strong><hr></blockquote>

To US politicians, it sometimes is more important, unfortunately <img src="icon9.gif" border="0">

 

[Ashoka]

I find this just friggin GREAT. God damn hill billy George dubbya Bush with his finger on the button is going to drag the whole North Atlantic Treaty Organization into a friggin war. <br />-------------------------------------------------

While I agree with your characterization of King George II (appointed, not elected to office) - what makes you think that the people who killed some 30,000 civilians Tuesday had nothing to do with this?

Hell, they probably knew this would happen. They planned every other detail - you think they were ignorant of NATO and its charter?

Hopefully, Dubbya will not be allowed to overblow the US response. But, as I posted elsewhere, this was an unprecedented attack on North America (and the terrorists reportedly came through Canada) so it would be stupid to expect anything other than an unprecedented response. If there is NOT an unprecedented response, the next action may be more deadly and audacious.

If the wind is right, a nuclear, biological or chemical weapon in NYC could have quite an effect on places to the north and east.... eh?

Ashoka

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by Ashoka:<br /><strong>I find this just friggin GREAT. God damn hill billy George dubbya Bush with his finger on the button is going to drag the whole North Atlantic Treaty Organization into a friggin war. <br />-------------------------------------------------

While I agree with your characterization of King George II (appointed, not elected to office) - what makes you think that the people who killed some 30,000 civilians Tuesday had nothing to do with this?<br /></strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh I'm sure they did. And they absolutely share the blame. However they're not rationale people... They're fanatics.

NOW however I think the free world should step back.. take a deep breath and THINK. before we start killing people en masse.

There are ways to hit back strongly at terrorism without invading or bombing foreign countries... Let's consider them BEFORE we get a war going.

I for one have no intentions of dieing for Bush. I want no part of whatever little **** storm conflict he starts up. It's not my problem that the US can't get along with the rest of the world.

 

[Ashoka]

It's not my problem that the US can't get along with the rest of the world. <br />----------------------------------

I think you are being a little short sighted. Despite all the US shortcomings, we will be a target no matter what we do. If the attack is from bin Lauden, it's not even about Isreal - it's about how western nations in Saudi Arabia 'defile' the holy earth of Islam. (Lauden's stated reason for former attacks) So why attack the US? Ottawa policy in the Middle East is not so different from Washington's (though, in most other cases, I would side w/ Canada). The terrorists were supposedly already in Canada... why didn't an Air Canda flight hit the CN Tower? How would the world have responded to such an act (other than some irate hockey fans who didn't already have cable TV?)

The US is the big target - our citizens need to get our government to learn to live with that gracefully and reasonably. Our neighbors are going to need to live with it, too. I would sleep better w/ Clinton in charge tonight, but the terrorists knew that Bush was president when they did this - maybe they are still pissed at King George I - so history will unfold and there is very little you and I can do about it.

In Peace -<br />Ashoka

 

[willemvanoranje]

Over here, everyone (especially girls for some reason) is afraid for WWIII, and they all say it's gonna happen soon. When you ask them why they think that, they say because the entire NATO is going to participate. That's bull, they first have to find a country to fight this war against, and even then it's not sure, maybe not even probable, that other countries are going to help that attacked one.

 

[KnightOfNi]

I wouldn't be so optimistic, the terrorists obviously want to drag the US into a large scale attack, if they managed to plan such a terrible action, they must have figured the consequences.<br />Europe is an US ally and the eventual military actions will involve Europe as well, making Europe a target for terrorists as well. Why do you think security is reinforced all over Europe at this time ?

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

like i said before:

I wont make a generalazation about american's.I try to look at every country with criticism ,and i don't think of the U.S as a a perfect society.I don't agree fully on all of bush his actions(and his party).But america hasn't asked for this tragedy.This was to barbaric ,a lot of civilians have been kiled yesterday.My condoledes for that.<br />This sort of terrorism is realy a threat not only to our western Nato country's.I'm sure you will get full support from Europe.I hope that too.<br />It has gotten so far now ,we have to support eachother.<br />I don't say that American's foreign policy has been very constructive last years.But the precense is as it now.We can't go back in the past.Rougue states have gotten to strongh.Yesterday has proven how dangerous the day today is.I fear for a lot of civilian death's, from this disaster and from the aftermatch.

Our problem is only a handfull of people.Bin laden ,Sadam ,Khadafi ,Kim jong il and a some more. They are the real threat.We have to get them ,not their civilians.don't send in bombers , use special forces to take out important people.<br />In fighting these people ,europeans will be willy to help you American's ,as it has to be.

 

[jc011]

I agree with the TheDuckofFlanders, we should just send some <img src="graemlins/snipersmilie.gif" border="0" alt="[Sniper]" /> <img src="graemlins/snipersmilie.gif" border="0" alt="[Sniper]" /> <img src="graemlins/snipersmilie.gif" border="0" alt="[Sniper]" /> and just eliminate those really responsible for this, instead of killing thousands more and doing something stupid. <img src="graemlins/hammer.gif" border="0" alt="[Hammer]" />