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Natural Wonder Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by hhhhhh, Aug 28, 2020.

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  1. monikernemo

    monikernemo Warlord

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    231
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    Male
    Bermuda Triangle [4]
    Chocolate Hills [13]
    Crater Lake [2] (5 -3) Again no food yields and generally a C-grade fountain of youth, main impact of crater lake is still relegated to the early for fast pantheon and having almost little to almost no mid to late game impact.
    Dead Sea [11]
    Delicate Arch [2]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [17]
    Galápagos Islands [11]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lake Retba [1]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16] (15 + 1) Not just high food yields but dense food yield tiles (high yield per tile) means cities settling near Kilimanjaro grow quickly, which is useful for the city to be productive quickly.
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [19]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [17]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  2. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,193
    I'm finding the volcanic wonders very difficult to evaluate. They inherently involve a lot of randomness, and there's no straightforward way to compare expected yields. I feel like I'd need to play several games starting close to each to get a handle on what they really do, let alone make reliable comparisons with them.

    Piopiotahi (17-3=14) Gold is generally weaker 1 for 1 that other resources, so this is at the low yield end of adjacent yield based wonders. Its coastal placement can also make some its tiles unworkable without awkward city positioning.
    Païtiti (19+1=20) You could remove this wonder's trade route bonus, remove its extra adjacencies, and then cut its yields in half and it would still be better than Piopoitahi. I am very much not a fan of this wonder from a design perspective, but when it comes to power, intentionally overpowered wonders are of course going to rank highly.

    Bermuda Triangle [4]
    Chocolate Hills [13]
    Crater Lake [2]
    Dead Sea [11]
    Delicate Arch [2]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [17]
    Galápagos Islands [11]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lake Retba [1]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [20]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [14]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  3. Hokie Fan

    Hokie Fan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Gender:
    Male
    Bermuda Triangle [4]
    Chocolate Hills [13]
    Crater Lake [2]
    Dead Sea [11]
    Delicate Arch [2]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [17]
    Galápagos Islands [11]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lake Retba [ELIMINATED] (1-3) - I like wonders that have either good yields, can do something unique at the beginning of the game to really help you like get first pantheon or that allow you to place at least three 2x adjacency holy sites around it. Lake Retba does none of these things. The best thing it has going for it is that you can get two holy sites around it that offer at least +4 adjacency. The other remaining bad wonders, like Delicate Arch or Crater Lake, can at least help get you first pantheon in the right situation. Basically a worse version of the Dead Sea, which isn't even that great of a wonder.
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21] (20+1) - The yields are great. If you find it early, it helps you overcome the dearth of early game culture. The gold generation is fantastic. Very fun wonder.
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [14]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  4. canadamufc

    canadamufc Chieftain

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    Crater Lake - Unworkable unless you want your city to actually grow. Fountain of Youth is objectively better.

    Galapagos Islands - We're being quite harsh on this in my opinion. It starts on coast tiles, so it's usually workable. If you combine this with Mausoleum, Auckland (albeit situational), and the fishing boat pantheon you can get some pretty great yields. +2 and +4 science on coast tiles is valuable and really should not be gone this early.

    Bermuda Triangle [4]
    Chocolate Hills [13]
    Crater Lake [ELIMINATED -1] -3
    Dead Sea [11]
    Delicate Arch [2]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [17]
    Galápagos Islands [12]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [14]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2020
  5. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

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    (Dead Sea: just an FYI, it no longer provides fresh water as of Gathering Storm)

    Bermuda Triangle [5] (4+1) I think we’re being harsh on this one. The potential yields are insane; early access to even one of the tiles is enough to propel your science considerably. And I’ve had it spawn near to the coast so that I could work three of the tiles. Equally, I’ve seen Giants Causeway spawn on two-tile islands in the middle of the ocean, I’ve seen Everest and Matterhorn and even Mt Roraima spawn entirely surrounded by mountains, and (perhaps most weird of all) I’ve seen seen Kilimanjaro spawn at the end of a one-tile wide peninsula jutting out into the sea. In other words, most wonders have the potential to spawn in an inaccessible location - so is Bermuda really that useless?

    Chocolate Hills [10] (13-3) Like I said in an earlier post, I’m mostly judging by yields. And Chocolate Hills’ yields are completely underwhelming. I’m not going to go out my way to settle near this - compare that to Bermuda which, if it’s nearby and accessible, you definitely do want to rush.

    Bermuda Triangle [5] (4+1)
    Chocolate Hills [10] (13-3)
    Dead Sea [11]
    Delicate Arch [2]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [17]
    Galápagos Islands [12]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [14]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  6. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I totally forgot Païtiti had that as well as the insane yields!!

    Bermuda Triangle [2] 5-3
    Delicate Arch [3] 2+1

    I still think we are slightly undervaluing the Desert Natural Wonders, in the right location (small desert) and with the right pantheon (desert folklore) they can provide strong value unlike Bermuda Triangle which is fun but pointless. It may on an incredibly rare occasion spawn somewhere useful but it's literally coded to appear in the middle of the ocean. (Edit: I was writing this just as the previous vote came in so just coincidence we both voted on BT).

    Bermuda Triangle [2]
    Chocolate Hills [10]
    Dead Sea [11]
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [17]
    Galápagos Islands [12]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [14]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  7. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    Bermuda Triangle would rate well if it didn't tend to spawn in the open ocean. I've yet to get any use from it. Pamukkale I'll throw a vote to. It always eases out city planning on whichever city can settle nearby.

    Bermuda Triangle [0] ELIMINATED

    Chocolate Hills [10]
    Dead Sea [11]
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [17]
    Galápagos Islands [12]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21]
    Pamukkale [21]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [14]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  8. TCBB

    TCBB Warlord

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    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    146
    Galápagos Islands [13] (12+1) Shouldn’t be so low. Not exactly the best wonder, and Great Barrier Reef does the sea-science thing better, but still – bonus science on improvable tiles shouldn’t be scoffed at. Plenty of worse options remaining.

    Dead Sea [8] (11-3) Might help grab an early pantheon if you spawn really, really close; but beyond that and ‘desert folklore’ games this one is nothing special. I would almost rather the solitary production granted by Lake Retba, tbh. (And yes, @Drivingrevilo is right: Dead Sea doesn’t grant fresh water anymore)


    Chocolate Hills [10]
    Dead Sea [8] (11-3)
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [17]
    Galápagos Islands [13] (12+1)
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21]
    Pamukkale [21]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [14]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  9. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    I kind of think y'all were too harsh on Crater Lake. Nothing is better to have next to your first city for getting the pantheon you want as quickly as possible. If you plan on taking advantage of the desert, jungle, or tundra pantheons, this will give it to you.If you don't have any interest in those, at the very worst this gets you your second settler in 7 turns at the most - nothing else will get you a second city faster than that, and that's a huge boon early in the game (and who cares if you're sacrificing growth to get it... training a settler was just going to cost you that population point anyways!). Grabbing any of these will have far reaching effects on the rest of your game. Even if the (recently added) Fountain of Youth can match it's faith, that doesn't make this advantage from Crater Lake any weaker. It also gives you freshwater unlike the other lake natural wonders.

    I'm not saying it should be top 5 or anything - outside of grabbing you that pantheon it's not good for much - but I still think that's powerful enough to keep it around for a bit longer. Oh well. There's not too many natural wonders I'd rather have my capital next to TBH.

    Chocolate Hills [10]
    Dead Sea [5] (8-3) I'd take Crater Lake over this, easily. Two faith isn't enough to guarantee you the pantheon you want (in my experience), no freshwater, and you of course have to sacrifice growth to work it. The culture bonus may give you a little bit of help very early on, but it's usefulness disappears pretty quickly as the game progresses.
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18] (17+1) I have yet to actually see this in a game, but if I'm going to argue in favor of Crater Lake I'd be nuts not to upvote this one as well.
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21]
    Pamukkale [21]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [14]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
    Deadly Dog likes this.
  10. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2020
    Messages:
    383
    Dead Sea [6] (5+1) I need to do Dead Sea some justice. It's useful if you are at war or want to hear your scout. It's not just a "normal" natural wonder that give you some bonus. It's fun to have in your games.
    Piopiotahi [11] (14-3) the addition being on adjacent tiles is good. 1 gold 1 culture is a bit underwhelming.


    Chocolate Hills [10]
    Dead Sea [6]
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [4]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21]
    Pamukkale [21]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [11]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [14]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  11. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    377
    Chocolate Hills [10]
    Dead Sea [6]
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [1] (4-3) Sits always between other mountains, so you get most 1 or 2 faith buffed tiles... and you usually would want to plant a campus there anyway. The movement bonus is meh, I can't really be bothered to use giant's Causeway if it's not really near, I definitely won't go out of my way to make a pilgrimage to Everest with my missionaries.
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21]
    Pamukkale [21]
    Pantanal [19]
    Piopiotahi [11]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15](14+1) It's not the best, but I usually try to settle it if I find it.
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
    hhhhhh likes this.
  12. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,662
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    There are only 3 wonders I can give up absolutely everything to settle them as soon as possible:
    Zhangye Danxia, Paititi and Pantanal. Paititi does not need support, ZD I allready upvoted, time for Pantanal. Massive culture boost without sacifising food to speed up with civics. Pity it does not get anything from lady of marshes :(
    Pantanal +1

    Chocoalte hills -3
    poor negative food yield, I would rather put mines there

    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Dead Sea [6]
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [1]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [21]
    Pamukkale [21]
    Pantanal [20]
    Piopiotahi [11]
    Sahara el Beyda [17]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  13. xaiviax

    xaiviax Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    I realize everyone's style of play and goals are different. But for myself, here's my take on wonder food. I would rather have extra food than not. However, it's not a big priority to me compared to all other yields. Culture and science are incredibly important. Production is the tool to get more of those, among other things. Gold and faith are empire wide production, again, among other things. I can never, never, have too much culture, science, production, gold, or faith.
    Enough food is important for each individual city. High growth is indeed usually preferred. Unless I have nothing but plains hills and the like, one good food tile is usually enough. One farm triangle is usually more than enough for two cities. And unlike everything else, it is possible to have too much food.
    Of course, like everything else, this is all map dependent. And I'm not trying to convince anyone here of anything, just offering my take and view. I very much enjoy these threads due to reading and observing all the other opinions, which open my eyes to new ideas much of the time.

    As it turns out, this doesn't much affect my opinions on these wonders, lol. Just pointing out that while I value the extra food on the appropriate wonders, I don't over value it.


    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Dead Sea [6]
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [17]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [1]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [22] (21+1) Lara Croft's Inca Lost City's additional yields are simply great. The trade route bonus gold is icing on the cake. The adjacencies are nice to have, though I'll never use them.
    Pamukkale [21]
    Pantanal [20]
    Piopiotahi [11]
    Sahara el Beyda [14] (17-3) A built in White Desert National Park. Tile yields are ok and belong with Petra. But it is still desert with a map generator that usually is not kind to desert. Things like this wonder help a lot, but not enough.
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
    hhhhhh likes this.
  14. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    716
    There's a hidden factor that admittedly isn't much of a priority for most players, but can significantly improve your game by likely several turns if not more, and that's the 4 tile passable wonders working with Charles Darwin for maximum yield. Not only does it give you the max value of science, but if timed on the turn you launch the moon landing, culture as well.

    It may not mean much in this thread but at least, it my opinion, should let stuff like Chocolate Hills outlast mostly inconsequential stuff like Giant's Causeway (which got nerfed to expire its bonus when a unit gets promoted, so you have to travel back to refresh it... no thanks).

    Meanwhile I'm going to spread love to Piopiotahi which I think is suffering from people not giving Culture the full weight it deserves, especially as an early yield.



    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Dead Sea [6]
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [14]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [17]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [1]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [22]
    Pamukkale [21]
    Pantanal [20]
    Piopiotahi [12]
    Sahara el Beyda [14]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
    canadamufc and 8housesofelixir like this.
  15. monikernemo

    monikernemo Warlord

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    IMO what makes a wonder good, aside from those that gives special abilities, is its yield density and its potential yield density.
    This explains why Paititi in the desert is better than Cliffs of Dover since 1 Paititi tile in the desert can give the yields of two CoD tiles and further more we can improve yields adjacent to the Paititi.
    And Roraima has relatively dense yields, which are furthermore improvable by farms, or lumbermills or mines.
    Volcanic wonders are great because of their potentially high yield density; the more eruption occurs the more productive and food the tiles bring despite possible infrastructural damage or population loss.
    Coastal wonders like GBR, Galapagos, even to some extent Dead Sea, Retba, gain improvement from harbour improvement buildings and Auckland.

    Lastly, there is an issue of relevancy, how relevant are the yields
    Yes Chocolate Hill has some what dense yields (1 Science 2 Production 1 Food), but a plains iron tile also give 1 Science 2 Production 1 Food so Chocolate Hills become less relevant quickly.
    The same can be said about Mato Tipila (which I don't really understand the upvote for it) and to some extent Tsingy.

    Nah, people have upvoted Paititi many times. Just that Paititi has much denser yields than Piopiotahi so it is easily more valued.

    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Dead Sea [7] (6 + 1) Dead Sea is still very relevant. Should be placed above chocolate hills.
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [14]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [14] (17 - 3) Low density yields, maybe good for fast pantheon but there are better choices out there.

    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [1]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [22]
    Pamukkale [21]
    Pantanal [20]
    Piopiotahi [12]
    Sahara el Beyda [14]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
    hhhhhh likes this.
  16. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,193
    Pamukkale (21-3=18) This can give a lot of +2 adjacency districts, but that's not an adjacency level that's especially hard to come by. Being able to fill the +4 slots with Campuses or Theater Squares instead of Holy Sites is nice (unless you're running work ethic), but I don't think there's really enough to move this wonder from "good" to "top tier".

    Chocolate Hills (7+1=8) I don't think this is top tier by any means, but I'd happily take it over Sahara el Beyda of Ubsunur Hollow, which are still sitting close to their starting totals.

    Chocolate Hills [8]

    Dead Sea [7]
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [14]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [14]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [1]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [22]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [20]
    Piopiotahi [12]
    Sahara el Beyda [14]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  17. canadamufc

    canadamufc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Chocolate Hills - I feel the Chocolate Hills is being a bit unfairly downvoted. Sure, its yields are a bit meh (Correction from my earlier vote, it's yields are really not that great), but at least it's not a desert natural wonder. If I see this, I don't think that there are 4 dead tiles, I see it as a 4 tile Natural Wonder that can get some solid holy sites and appeal (also Charles Darwin).

    Mount Everest - Too situational, even for a religious victory.

    Chocolate Hills [9] +1

    Dead Sea [7]
    Delicate Arch [3]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [14]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [14]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Everest [-2 ELIMINATED] -3
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [22]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [20]
    Piopiotahi [12]
    Sahara el Beyda [14]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
  18. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2020
    Messages:
    166
    Gender:
    Male
    Delicate Arch [0] (ELIMINATED) Chugging along unnoticed. It’s only one tile, so you can’t even get decent holy-site adjacency from it; the yields are underwhelming; and it spawns in desert.

    Giant's Causeway [15] (14+1) While slightly annoying, I don’t think the whole ‘lose the +5 combat strength when you upgrade a unit’ is a reason to downvote. The most important time to find a natural wonder is early on; the most important time to take out a neighbour is also early on. That’s where Giant’s Causeway shines – granting +5 combat strength to all your warriors, archers, and horsemen, allowing you to bulldoze your way through your nearest neighbour with ease. Doesn’t really matter that you then lose the bonus once you upgrade - you’ve already got amazing use out of it.

    Chocolate Hills [9]
    Dead Sea [7]
    Delicate Arch [0] (ELIMINATED)
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [15] (14+1)
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [5]
    Mato Tipila [14]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [22]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [20]
    Piopiotahi [12]
    Sahara el Beyda [14]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
    canadamufc likes this.
  19. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    727
    Chocolate Hills [9]
    Dead Sea [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [2]
    Mato Tipila [14]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [16]
    Païtiti [22]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [20]
    Piopiotahi [13]
    Sahara el Beyda [14]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]

    I find it just beyond baffling anyone could downvote Piopiotahi. I am just gobsmacked. I think that's like as close to a "wrong" opinion as you can come in a subjective matter, like making Alexander your first downvote in a Domination thread. Piopiotahi is fantastic. Cumulatively across the tiles it affects, it produces +12 Culture! That's the same as a reasonably well-placed Colosseum, and you don't even have to do anything except settle near it. But it's not like those mediocre Wonders where you have to work the Wonder tiles themselves and inevitably fall behind - no, it affects adjacent tiles, so you can improve all of the tiles next to it meaning they can be actual good tiles. Okay, it's not Paititi good because it spawns adjacent to the ocean making some of the tiles a little harder to work, but it's like, clearly one of the best Wonders in this entire list. Makes Ha Long Bay's cumulative +2 Culture look like absolute chump change, and Ha Long Bay is up on 18.

    Lysefjord is just... meh. Naval combat is too unimportant and when it is important, numbers beats promotions.
     
  20. linaker

    linaker Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    47
    Dead Sea: -3. Need +4 food to work it without strangling growth, so you need farms/food resources/trade routes etc. You can rarely chose where battles occur and I have never got much use from its healing property. Seems to require a lot of planning/managing for not much of a reward.
    Mount Vesuvius: +1 Erupts frequently and the yields can be spectacular. eg 5 food, 4 production before any improvements. Also the volcanic soil and Rapa Nui can net you at least 3 times the culture of the Dead Sea and if you chose the Fire Goddess pantheon, you end up with something spectacular. .

    Chocolate Hills [9]
    Dead Sea [4] (7 - 3)
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [18]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Lysefjord [2]
    Mato Tipila [14]
    Matterhorn [18]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [16]
    Mount Roraima [21]
    Mount Vesuvius [17] (16 + !)
    Païtiti [22]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [20]
    Piopiotahi [13]
    Sahara el Beyda [14]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [16]
    Ubsunur Hollow [15]
    Uluru [13]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [19]
     
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