Natural Wonder Starting Bias?

[vplus]

I recently started a fairly standard map (Continents, Difficulty 4) playing as Spain. Although I was on the coast, the only resources near me were 2 Stone and 1 Ivory. However, 2 turns exploring revealed that Mt Sinai was literally within 3 tiles of Madrid. Hence it wasn't long before I was generating a whopping +16 Faith, and subsequently bossing it on the Religion front.

I've never started so close to a natural wonder before - is this Starting Bias particular to Spain? Or did I just get rather lucky?

 

[FeiLing]

Just lucky.

 

[Iberian]

Very lucky. I played two games as Spain on continents map and both times I had ZERO natural wonders. I was even on a map that had the GBR only to find it with a caravel for +200 gold. Not exactly game breaking.

 

[z284pwr]

This is definitely where Spain can be really awesome or be really lack luster

 

[KokeenoPokameso]

Natural wonders do seem to appear outside City States. It get's very frustrating, and sometimes leads that City state to an early demise. It was their own falt, how dare they park themselves near my natural wonder.

 

[MarshalN]

I find that very odd actually how most NWs seem to spawn right next to a city state. It does make for games where killing the CS for the NW seem worthwhile, until of course you remember the diplo penalties for killing CS.

 

[joncnunn]

I find that very odd actually how most NWs seem to spawn right next to a city state. It does make for games where killing the CS for the NW seem worthwhile, until of course you remember the diplo penalties for killing CS.

And generally I find that NW in a nearby tile the city state hasn't expanded into but has prevented me from founding a city that would work it.

It often makes me wish I was playing Austria so I could annex the city.
(Playing Venice wouldn't work because your puppet governor will refuse to acquire the tile.)

 

[Theruss]

And generally I find that NW in a nearby tile the city state hasn't expanded into but has prevented me from founding a city that would work it.

It often makes me wish I was playing Austria so I could annex the city.
(Playing Venice wouldn't work because your puppet governor will refuse to acquire the tile.)

If you have a city close enough to the city state, you could always steal the NW from them with a great general. I do that occasionally to be able to work their NW or their luxury.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

How the game builds a random map:
build terrain
add features, including natural wonders
place major civ starting units in appropriate biome, avoid natural wonders
place minor civ starting units
place resources, allocate two luxuries exclusively to city states

Because major civs have a hidden avoid natural wonder bias that cannot be turned off, the minor civs tend be close to them because the major civs are taking up the land further away.

 

[ilik]

I NEVER managed to make a NW in my borders.

 

[Halcyan2]

Natural wonders do seem to appear outside City States. It get's very frustrating, and sometimes leads that City state to an early demise. It was their own falt, how dare they park themselves near my natural wonder.

I find that very odd actually how most NWs seem to spawn right next to a city state. It does make for games where killing the CS for the NW seem worthwhile, until of course you remember the diplo penalties for killing CS.

It is due to the map algorithms. Natural Wonders have a ripple value of 4 to major civs, meaning that they appear at least 5 tiles away. Whereas they only have a ripple value of 1 to city states, meaning they can appear 2 tiles away.

 

[MarshalN]

It is due to the map algorithms. Natural Wonders have a ripple value of 4 to major civs, meaning that they appear at least 5 tiles away. Whereas they only have a ripple value of 1 to city states, meaning they can appear 2 tiles away.

Good to know. Just started a game as Spain with kailash less than 6 tiles away, pretty awesome faith generation with one with nature pantheon

 

[joncnunn]

If you have a city close enough to the city state, you could always steal the NW from them with a great general. I do that occasionally to be able to work their NW or their luxury.

This isn't quite what I'm referring to.
That NW is normally not within the cultural boundary of the city state. However the lay of the land is such that a new city within 3 hexes of that NW can not be planted at all. (From a combination of the exclusion rules & coast lines.)

(If the human had planted a city in that exact same spot, he could cash buy the tile the NW is located in but city states won't do this.)

 

[joncnunn]

I NEVER managed to make a NW in my borders.

If you are finding a NW within 3 hexes of your city; you have to annex the tile into your cultural boundary by spending cash.

 

[joncnunn]

It is due to the map algorithms. Natural Wonders have a ripple value of 4 to major civs, meaning that they appear at least 5 tiles away. Whereas they only have a ripple value of 1 to city states, meaning they can appear 2 tiles away.

How easy would it be to mod this to be a ripple of 4 to city states as well?

 

[Lord Katana]

My current game i found King Solomons mines as first NW 7 turns out as Spain. Can say that's one hell of a tile (with One with nature thats 12 and 8 )

But it seems that if you like NW, best thing to do is to throttle back on the number of CS in the game. That mostly seems to do if for me. Also makes for a more interesting game imho....

 

[Halcyan2]

How easy would it be to mod this to be a ripple of 4 to city states as well?

Not too hard apparently. I recently asked this question myself on the Mods subforum, and a really helpful guy responded. Here is the thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=508236

 

[BuzWeaverCiv]

The map I'm currently playing on has Mt. Siani. I built a city next to the Mountain but I never saw the additional +5 Faith?

 

[Browd]

You need to work the Sinai tile. Go to Citizen Management in City View to verify a citizen is working that tile.

 

[BuzWeaverCiv]

You need to work the Sinai tile. Go to Citizen Management in City View to verify a citizen is working that tile.

Okay thanks. I had bought the tile and noticed that I wasn't getting any Faith bonus, but as you said I needed to "work" the tile.