navigate on rivers ???

[Flay]

Somethimg has always bother me. And I am surprise that we can't do that in ROM.

WHY CAN'T WE NAVIGATE OUR SHIP ON RIVERS ? why why why ?

 

[Deon]

Probably because 1 ship = huge fleet and it can't be controlled within a river. Also mechanics-wise, it would require to remake land-naval battles.

There definitely are some boats and ships on your rivers, they are just not indicated but appear as trade routes via rivers.

 

[James009]

I live next to a lake and I doubt a Galleon, Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battleship, or Carrier could fit in it... and this is a big lake similar to a large river.

... maybe Galleys, Trimines, Flyuts, Ironclads, and Viking Longboats, but that's it. Historically speaking also its also pretty realistic that you don't see too much in rivers. I do wish we could build bridges though (I thought I saw a mod somewhere).

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I would like to see canals, like the Suez and the Panama get in the game

 

[jooyo]

You don't need any canal mod - just use forts. Your ships will be able to move over the forts like over canals.

 

[little_cyclone]

You don't need any canal mod - just use forts. Your ships will be able to move over the forts like over canals.

But only up to two forts inland

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Canals are permanent. Forts can be destroyed or altered by automated workers, etc.

 

[Afforess]

Canals are permanent. Forts can be destroyed or altered by automated workers, etc.

The in the game settings, change it so "automated workers can not destroy existing improvements" or some such setting. That game setting has been in the game since vanilla civ 4.

 

[frekk]

The simple answer is that it would be mechanically challenging to implement, because you're fuzzying the boundaries between land and water for units and how they interact. What happens when a land force enters the same tile as a fleet travelling on a river?

And coding it would be very challenging. Not only would you have to somehow restrict the units to river routes but only when on land, you'd have to rewrite alot of the AI having to do with naval movement.

You can think of it this way: few naval units are able to navigate rivers; units represent fleets of ships and even when a ship like a galley or something is able to be piloted on a river, a flotilla of them is another matter. Plus not all rivers are navigable to any watercraft at all, not even canoes; try going over the Niagara Falls in one! Some rivers feature extensive portions that have rapids, shallow parts, turn into swamps, are seasonal, etc.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

The in the game settings, change it so "automated workers can not destroy existing improvements" or some such setting. That game setting has been in the game since vanilla civ 4.

Yes, this I know, but what happens when/if you lose "cultural control" of said canal? The AI will then possibly wipe it out with a farm. A canal would have to be a permanent feature like terrain.

Maybe that's the answer make a mod that introduces a terrain terraforming build order that allows a worker to change the plot to a canal.

I am not a coder, but I can concieve that one could borrow from the code for a fort that allows ships to enter friendly forts. There is no combat between land and sea units in forts, and no sea unit can enter an enemy-controlled fort I don't think.

Code the Canal such that it's permanent and such that it requires late industrial technology like Explosives and Industrialism for example and make it exhorbitently expensive and such that it can span 4 land plots that are connected to "oceans" on both sides. In my mind, the "canal terrain" would also reduce/improve the terrain to "Coast" but with a twist that allows for "bridge building".

It's hard, I admit, but that's a good outline I think.

 

[jooyo]

Maybe I will try make canals after I will complete tunnels modmod.

 

[Meltemi]

Canals are permanent. Forts can be destroyed or altered by automated workers, etc.

Which canals are you talking about? Most canals, like Panama, White-Baltic, and Kiel, rely on multiple series of locks simply to balance between the different water levels of the two sides, and while a handful like the Suez don't require any locks, that one still requires regular maintenance to prevent it from simply silting over as other canals in that locale have repeatedly in history since the days of the Pharaohs. For lock canals, if you destroy the locks, you destroy the canal, at least as far as navigability is concerned. For canals like Suez, it's still easy to destroy them insofar as navigability is concerned just by scuttling some poor merchant's ship right in the middle or stopping maintenance from being done, or for a more rigorous solution, dropping pre-prepared material into it to hull any ships that try to make the passage.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Which canals are you talking about? Most canals, like Panama, White-Baltic, and Kiel, rely on multiple series of locks simply to balance between the different water levels of the two sides, and while a handful like the Suez don't require any locks, that one still requires regular maintenance to prevent it from simply silting over as other canals in that locale have repeatedly in history since the days of the Pharaohs. For lock canals, if you destroy the locks, you destroy the canal, at least as far as navigability is concerned. For canals like Suez, it's still easy to destroy them insofar as navigability is concerned just by scuttling some poor merchant's ship right in the middle or stopping maintenance from being done, or for a more rigorous solution, dropping pre-prepared material into it to hull any ships that try to make the passage.

What you talk of involves making something inopperable...but it is still there if you clean it up or repair it, but it is not gone, ala farming a mine or cottage for example.

It would be a good idea to impose a maintenance fee to the canal for the civ that "controls it".

 

[Deon]

What you talk of involves making something inopperable...

And in terms of an abstract strategy game inoperable = destroyed . It will still require a lot of effort to repair it, which is almost the same as a new worker task to build it.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

blink blink

It's symantics, but I'll accept your argument.

I'm just thinking about the fact that it would take a long time to have a canal like the Suez just "vanish". But it's part of the "behind the curtains" mystique of moving a tank from Berlin to Paris in 2 years rather than a couple days.

 

[Chiyochan]

i'd rather there be better options for zones of control, i find it ridiculous how easily the AI can just go around your armies. they should have to engage or you should be given the option to engage or they should have to go around, walking right past the units is pretty lame. in land units, its bareable i guess, but its terrible for island nations trying to build a decent navy and protect their borders, theres just no way ready your navy to engage a unit, you have to wait untill after they move and then hope they didnt land hundreds of minions on your shores or tore apart your fishing boats

 

[frekk]

blink blink

It's symantics, but I'll accept your argument.

I'm just thinking about the fact that it would take a long time to have a canal like the Suez just "vanish". But it's part of the "behind the curtains" mystique of moving a tank from Berlin to Paris in 2 years rather than a couple days.

Meh, not really. Although it would depend on the exact nature of the canal. Some canals rely on series of dams and so on to create artificial lakes and rivers along their length. If the dams break down, the canal can easily disappear. Most canals use a series of natural (or artificially flooded) lakes and rivers, and the actual channel-type stretches tend to be only a tiny portion of the entire course of the canal, used to connect the navigable lakes and rivers. These are kept navigable by dredging a deep channel, something that has to be done on a regular basis.

Even the man-made channels with retaining walls etc need to be regularly maintained, or the action of the water will cause the retaining walls to collapse into the channel. There are powerful erosionary forces at work, and it's difficult to keep anything vertical without regular maintenance. Water will cut right through solid, living granite, it has no problem tearing down masonry or concrete alot faster than that.

Canals also have a habit of silting over. Regular dredging is done to keep most canals operable. It takes time, but canals can and do completely silt over, especially when vegetation starts growing along the bottom of the channel, and then sometimes the course of the water changes.

 

[MechatronicJazz]

Is is possible to create a promotion that gives land units extra movement on tiles with river. That would kind of simulate having canoes or small river boats to aid travel.

 

[DRJ]

Thats a pretty good Idea, could be a standard promotion for seafearing civs maybe?

 

[vincentz]

I think it would be very difficult to make as rivers are neither terrain or feature. The it had to be done in SDK (i think)