NC CLXXVI Hannibal

[Gumbolt]

@ VJ.

Spoiler :

Don't take my critisms too hard. There is no right or wrong way to play this map. Sampsa has demonstrated an early peaceful approach.

Choppping vs saving forest for maths chops is always a tough call. I probably chop too much.

When to build or decide to go for wonders too can be tough. On immortal or Deity you have to decide early on to do it. On Noble you have more time as techs come much quicker on Noble and the AI expand almost 100% slower.

Keeping Ai at pleased is a tough goal. The key is to monitor them if they do start plotting.

Keep plugging away at Noble. It's quite winnable. As is immortal if Sampsa can win by 1200ad or so.

 

[VJ.]

@Gumbolt

Spoiler :

Thank you - sorry if I sounded a bit defensive, I didn't mean too. Don't worry about being tough on my game; I've joined in on this so people could be!

 

[Gumbolt]

@ VJ. I was more worried I was being too harsh. Happy to give blunt honest critisms where it is wanted. Should be another game by end of week for you to try. I think Elite or another person is on it.

 

[InovA]

Wooo! My first Immortal game. My first Immortal win! Took a while, but feels awesome

My compiled update list for this NC:
Immortal NHNE:

4000 BC:

Spoiler :

4000BC:
Settling in place looks good
1S1W maybe offers a resource in FoW, but can't pass up the river tiles + FIN trait.

Thought about going 2N1W or 2N2W, north of gold for the 2nd hammer in the city. This wouldn't be bad if theres at least a little food up there and we share our corn/cows with another city.

1N1W is also acceptable, opening up the origin square as a nice tile, but this forfeits 2
similar tiles and gains 2 coastal tiles.

Moved my warrior 1N1W to see if I'd want to try anything other than settling in place, but ultimately chose to settle in place for faster cottages on the river.

Up to 1000 BC:

Spoiler :

My Tech:
Agg -> AH -> BW -> Wheel -> Pot -> Writing -> Sailing* -> Masonry -> Aesthetics
*I waited at 0% until 2 libraries finished.

City build:
Work-War-War-Settler(@3)-Settler-Work(Chop)-Gran-Work-Lib

3040 BC [T24]: Pottery is a good 3rd tech choice, but we have enough of an early economy as it is and making use of BW should help more.

2nd city:

3rd city: [1S of pigs]

This should have been done in reverse order out of fear of Ethiopia stealing the clams/pigs location, but I lost my first warrior early and didn't have an escort/vision of the pigs by the time my first settler finished.

1920 BC [T52]: This is the critical point I've gotten lazy on in the past, a decision needs to be made after teching writing. The 2 questions that I want to keep in mind are:
*Can I rush an opponent?
-I cannot see their resources yet, so we'll put this on the back burner.
*Are any world wonders worth contesting? [Value gained : Effort put in : Chance of success] (out of 10)
-Pyramids: [7 : 9 : 6]
Always decent, but no stone could make me too slow. Don't think it is worth the trouble.
-GLH: [5 : 6 : 9]
I'll have at least 2 coastal cities, might take 1 or 2 from Ethiopia at some point. Not bad overall, but could there be something better?
-Great Wall: [5 : 3 : 3]
I want to go for the great wall! And though I feel like my tech path is a bit slow for the wall, the tech speedup from gold should make up for it!
-Oracle: [7 : 4 : 5]
Now this is interesting. I want to say that if I go for oracle it would give me time to make another worker or two in my capital and still time out well. In my experience the Monarch A.I. usually finishes the Oracle between 1050-750 BC.

I could start it on T71 where it would be built in my capital with 11 hammers/turn. At 150 hammers, at best I could chop 4 forests for it, making for 70 hammers to go. If I time a whip overflow to it properly I could maybe make it in 5 turns, but it could take as many as 7-10 turns. 850 BC in the slowest case, 975 BC in the fastest.

The arbitrary values I assigned each wonder in this game shows that I think I can get the best "value per effort" out of The Oracle, with The Great Wall not far behind. But the risk vs reward is best from GLH, so until I know when the A.I. usually finishes wonders for certain, I'll make the sound play and go for the GLH here.


The Great Wall - 1480 BC [T63] Ethiopia! I could have finished Masonry by T58, the 150 production needed could have been double, maybe triple chopped, but then still, 90 hammers in 5 turns, not happening. Good call to skip!

Because my 3rd city (coastal) was still establishing itself, I completely delayed tech and went to 0% until my first 2 libraries finished. At around ~300 gold, 1280 BC [T68], I resumed and plan to go for Aesthetics after Sailing+Masonry, then trade for Alpha.

Sailing gave me trading capabilities with the Ottomans, who recently took both ivory tiles nearest to me. He won't trade me one yet so I'm gifting him sheep for diplo.

1000 BC [T75]:
Aesthetics - 5 turns away
GS - 10 turns away
4th city - 6 turns away
GLH starts in 3 turns

Up to 500 AD:

Spoiler :

Tech Path:
Aesthetics -> Mysticism -> Meditation -> Iron Working -> Metal Casting -> Poly -> Literature ->* Currency -> Compass -> Code of Laws -> Music (1st) -> Civil Service (4T away)
*Traded for Alpha, Hunting, Archery, Monotheism, Calender
-Spent Music's Great Artist on a Golden Age
-Bulbed Philosophy
-Meditation for Tech Boost from Monasteries, I feel meh about this move
-Iron Working to go to war with Ethiopia - worked out well, but seems to me like it was a bad decision that got lucky
-I am about 3000 bulbs ahead of Mehmed, though after we trade a few back and forth it should be ~2100 in my favor

925 BC [T78]: Oracle was built in an unknown land.
775 BC [T84]: Pyramids in Ethiopia!
425 BC [T98]: Built the GLH!
225 BC [T106]: Mehmed is prepping for war! I have 0.6 ratio to him, 0.9 to Ethiopia. I've seen his stack scouting my eastern city, I think I'm the target
Maybe not, he has -4 towards Ethiopia for religious differences. I think I'll join that war! But on who's side... hmmmm...
150 BC [T109]: Mehmed is pleased towards me! He will also donate ivory to me, noice!
Zara is teching to alpha now, 6T away, so hopefully I can trade for it before we team up on the poor bastard.
75 BC [T112]: Mehmed finished Alpha (1T before Zara) I traded for it and Mathematics.
50 BC [T113]: Mehmed declared war on Zara!
1 AD [T115]: I declare on Zara! (1.3 power ratio) (~12 swords, 7 axes)
150 AD [T121]: Apostolic Palace built by Buddhists on another continent.
200 AD [T123]: Built The Great Library!
300 AD [T127]: Took Aksum (Pyramids, Great Wall, StoneHenge) after Mehmed threw his stack at it.
400 AD [T131]: The Ethiopian Civilization has been destroyed! (Mehmed got 0 cities.)
500 AD [T135]: I'm now at 8 cities, plan to take 9th at southern fish, Mehmed is at 13 cities.

My WWs:
-Great Wall (stolen)
-Pyramids (stolen)
-Hanging Gardens (stolen)
-GLH
-Great Lib
-StoneHenge (stolen)
-Parthenon (9T away, fail gold is fine)

Dang Zara! All these wonders you made for me!

Map:

Spoiler :

Up to 1200 AD:

Spoiler :

Tech Path:
Civil Service -> Nationalism -> Paper -> Education -> Liberalism + Military Tradition (940 AD) -> HBR* -> Gunpowder -> Construction -> Engineering -> Chemistry -> Printing Press -> Economics (8T away)
Trade for: Monarchy, Drama, Feudalism, Priesthood, Theology, Guilds, Banking
Stole: Machinery
Future Plans:
-Democracy for Statue of Lib; Straight to Communism.
-Switch to Free Market after getting Economics.
-Astronomy after Communism for oceanic trade while at war with Mehmed.
*I would normally trade for HBR and Construction here, but Mehmed doesn't like to trade I see

1080 AD [T168]: Mehmed fears I'm becoming too advanced I've heard of that, but never had it happen to me.
1120 AD [T172]: Now he doesn't fear I'm too advanced. What, Mehmed, am I not good enough for you now?
1130 AD [T173]: Mehmed gets Notre Dame.
1140 AD [T174]: Met Hammurabi! Traded Education for Drama, Feudalism, Priesthood, Theology, map.

He has been up to a lot! Many WWs, decently high score for sharing a continent with 3 others.
Hammurabi will likely be my main opposition for victory in this game, assuming all goes well with killing Mehmed.
1170 AD [T177]: Hammurabi is prepping war, or just got declared on.
1190 AD [T179]: Built the Taj Mahal!
1200 AD [T180]: The Mongolians took a Babylonian city! Maybe Babylon won't be a contender.
Switched to Mercantilism for the +GP bonus during Golden Age.
Costs me 37gp/turn for no foreign trade.

I have 9 Cuirassier, 1 Trebuchet, 2 GS (+3 more upcoming in my Golden Age), Heroic Epic in 5T.
Will go to war with Mehmed within a century of my Golden Age ending!

*I was seriously debating whether or not to abandon the idea of fighting Mehmed; he's friendly to me, strong, and easy to steal tech from. But I have GLH, he built me a lovely Notre Dame, and I'm planning to get Statue of Liberty, sooo more cities pleeeease!

Up until 1600 AD:

Spoiler :

1260 AD: My golden age is ending this turn, I used the first set of civics during GA, switching to 2nd set for war with Mehmed.

And post-war:

*Note: Free Market was a mistake, I expected to have Astronomy and Oceanic trade available sooner. Organized Religion was "OK" but maybe Theocracy was better.

1380 AD: Declared war on Mehmed! Power ratio of 0.6 to Ottomans.
1400s: The war started slowly, killed a big stack of his (25 units) on the first turn, but didn't gain any key cities for a long time due to spies failing with 88% chance to cause a revolt. Also had few trebuchets.
Tech came to a complete stop after Democracy, Statue of Liberty should finish but I'm not sure if I'll be the first to Communism.
Mehmed should finish Astronomy by 1550 AD, I'll peace him for it when I'm ready.

My 0.6 ratio turned into 2.0 ratio in ~15 turns!
Met the others on 2nd continent!
Mongolia is the master of the Vikings and is plotting war. (Darius is his worst enemy)

1530 AD: Mehmed caps to me and I took his Notre Dame city!

1550 AD: Mongolia, on the verge of dominating Babylon and forcing his way to a 2nd vassal, has Ragnar renounce vassalship!

1580 AD: Uh. OK. Had a bit of a bug. Mongolia asks me to join in his war vs Hammurabi, I join. Hammurabi immediately asks me to join his war vs Vikings, I decline. Then the "We shall remember this." Line comes up, with the option to open trade table. I trade, ask what the price for peace is, he says impossible and the side panels close, but I can still ask him if he will accept this deal (assuming cease fire for nothing) and he accepts. This makes Mehmed also declare war and peace within the same turn.

1595 AD: I was first to Communism (Persia 1T away) and used a Great Engineer on The Kremlin, but still lost it by 1 turn! Damn, man.

Now Babylon is the vassal of the Vikings. Odd power swing, feels like some Game of Thrones backstabbing is going on over in Westeros. Yes, that continent was just officially named Westeros. This must mean I have dragons and wizards somewhere on my continent!!!

1600 AD: I'm slightly behind Darius in tech, the Vikings have the lead in culture but it's currently nothing to worry over (3000+ culture for 3rd city), and after the Vikings eliminated the threat of Mongolia ruling over 2 vassals, if anyone is dominating this game, it's me. Diplomacy is a scare, all of Westeros dislikes me or is cautious of me and the Vikings have a bromance with Mongolia, the 2 powerhouses on their continent. Also the 3 Buddhists are basically a pact now, with the Apostolic palace (Babylon) present I would worry of ever threatening the Vikings to where they may put a vote towards victory on the table.

I believe someone will plot war on Darius soon.

I'm putting all espionage (other than the amount needed to see teching) into Darius so I can steal any techs I fancy.

Maybe I'll war with Infantry + Tanks like I did in my Emperor game for the last NC. Had a close call with diplo and culture victories though.

Final Era:

Spoiler :

1650 AD: Both the Vikings and Mongolians are plotting war.
1670 AD: Vikings+Babylon declare war on Darius. I join when asked.
1695 AD: Mongolia declared war on Vikings+Babylon?! I'm tellin' you, Game of Thrones backstabbing all over that continent!
1720 AD: Babylon is now a free state again.
1725 AD: Vikings' 3rd city at 4800 Culture.
1760 AD: Babylon revassals to Vikings.
1765 AD: Peace between Mongolia and Vikings+Babylon. [T263, Apostolic voting]
1770 AD: Apostolic Palace voting stops the war between Darius and Vikings+Babylon.
1776 AD: The cooler half of my empire seceded, a new player has joined the game: George Washington.
1820 AD: Tanks begin.
1822 AD: I declare on Vikings+Babylon! Plan is to take city of Babylon (Apostolic Palace) ASAP, in 3 turns Apostolic voting is possible.
I bribe Mongolia into war for just Communism! He is so far behind in tech, but has a big army! (1.3 ratio to him, 2.5+ ratio to all others.)
I currently have: 51 Infantry, 26 Marines, 15 Airships, 31 Cavalry, 45 Cannons, 13 Galleons. (Tanks + Transports + Destroyers in production.)
I would've declared sooner, but had only Galleons for a navy, didn't want to lose stacks loaded in Galleons to Ironclads/Frigates.
1824 AD: Easily take Babylon, declare war on Mongolia.
1830 AD: Mongolia's main stack was stuck fighting the Vikings, muahaha!
1840s: This is taking longer than it should, Mongolia won't cap until he has less than the average world power. Then I just need a quick 40 war success with Darius and Ragnar.
1864 AD: Conquest Victory!!!

1 Turn faster than my win in the last NC though that was only on Emperor!

Questions:

Spoiler :

-Let's say the year is somewhere between 800-1100 AD, you just captured the Apostolic Palace but have no means of moving a missionary to that city for quite some time. Is it worth it to switch state religion to one in that city if few of your cities follow it? The AP seems like a weak wonder overall to me.

-I looked through a few notes on what requirements are needed for a civ to capitulate to you, the one that I think slowed me down was the "Mongolia won't cap until he has less than the average world power." Is this meant to be average power out of ALL players, or just rival players? Because I reached a point when my power was more than double that of the rest of the entire world combined, but he capped once he was weaker than the Vikings.

-How do you like to spend your Great Generals? I settled first 3 in my heroic epic city then attached them to units for +100% exp bonus and strength promotions. (Also 1 for academy when able.)

 

[Gumbolt]

@ Inova.

Congrats on first immortal win.

Spoiler :

No great opinion on AP. Only go for it if you intend to win via Ap.

Sometimes it is better not to adopt the religion if no one else has adopted it. As long as you own the Ap and all Ai have the religion then you should be the only candidate.

Like most games you look at happiness with all the Ai and decide if you can win by Ap or if you want to conquer the world.

Capitulation with vassels rrequirees about 3x power or more. Took 4x power with Viking on my game. As the vassel break free they should all cap eventually. Just keep building up your power and win ratios.

Great Generals. First for a medic to free up HE. lvl 4 unit. Settled generals can be nice. Especially for a Cha leader. CR3 trebs or C3 or C4 cuirs are sweet. If I am close to the win I like creating powerful units.

 

[Gator Country]

Congratulations on your win, Inova!

Spoiler :

WRT Great Generals, a popular thing to do with them is to make a super medic out of one of your older, weaker and faster units - a chariot or a HA is a common choice. The idea is that you want one in your stack, but you never want him to actually fight. He's only there to quickly heal your stronger fighters and get them right back into battle.

 

[sampsa]

1050 AD

Spoiler :

Well, not a smooth turn set. The only positive thing was Mehmed's deer-city finally flipping to me. Declared on Darius 700AD, he capped to Ragnar two turns later. Should have seen that coming, as D had lost many cities already. Declare on Hammurabi 780 AD, he caps to me one city and two turns later. The other continent is super super backwards, Genghis lacking alpha etc.

I had a pipe dream of peace vassaling Mehmed once I have enough land and power. Later I realized that taking a vassal spoils our diplo and there is no way to get him friendly towards Hammurabi. Would have been so much easier to start from Mehmed like 600AD when he still lacked feudalism, or to not take vassals yet.

Start a 2nd consecutive golden age with GM+GP, running mostly slavery+vassalage though as I lack philo (so silly to have a religion but to not take advantage of religious civics at all). Declare on Ragnar+Darius 860AD and the war was a disaster. I had seen his stack of 10 cats and 10 other units, but lost vision of it (why didn't I have 1-3 spies?) and he rammed a bunch of my trebs in a city I just captured. 500 down the drain, oh well. Captured some cities, Darius has still one on a hill in a spot that is not easy to take. Had to cease fire to not lose any more troops, and I just lost Nidaros back to Rags.

Trying to gather the strength to finish this one, but 1200AD victory is out of reach now. Actually, maybe I should leave Mehmed alone and aim for domination instead of the usual conquest. Colonial maintenance will be a pain though.

 

[sampsa]

To the end

Spoiler :

Trouble on the other continent continued. Managed to kill off Darius, but soon Rags bribed Genghis on me and soon vassaled to him. Meaning that I need to take all his cities, too. When I was losing ~300 per turn due to colonial maintenance I liberated Isabella.

Made progress towards north as fast as I could, kept a city with Mids and switched to police state. Killed Rags. Genghis had nothing, as he had suicided most of his troops against Hammurabi, but he tends to resist capitulation a long time.

When I had roughly 40-50 units on both continents I declared on Mehmed. Should have done it way earlier I guess. Ankara was lightly defended and I managed to take it with the cost of one knight.

Mehmed's stack of ~25 units was in Konya, that was not on a hill and only 40% cultural defence with no walls, meaning 3 bombardments got it to 0% and crIII trebs had +75% odds.

Took 5 cities, including his capital and he bent 1220AD, leading to

Conquest 1230 AD
Score 278205

 

[Gator Country]

Congrats!

 

[Powerfaker]

Up to 730 AD.

Spoiler :

-Reached 3 cities and peace with Memeth at 2150BC (previous post).
-4th city 1650BC, 5th city 1450BC
-Headed for math, then PH. Oracle built 1275BC. Took HBR. Maybe not the strongest option, but wanted to deploy NumCav with which I have no experience.
-GLH built 875BC.
-825BC DoW on Memeth. Strangled him slowly and eliminated him at 50BC. Took over 4 cities, razed 1 city. Used cats and swords to siege, NumCav appeared only good for pillaging and needed protection of spears against his chariots
-Techpath first headed for Lit, then Curr-CoL-CS, then towards Mach-Opt-Eng-Paper. To my surprise I founded Confu 95BC. When I tried Music ±400 or 500AD no artist however. Currently teching Astro.
-Built ShwPaya 125BC and GLib 25AD.
-0AD to 730Ad building infra and preparing for war with Zara with trebs and maces.
- Got 2 GProphets so far, 1 built hindu shrine in former Ottoman city (+8GPT), 1 settled.
-Reached other continent ± 650AD at Babylon being a Viking city. Guess Hammi is out. Dropped of an explorer. Found Darius and Genghis so far. Darius/Ragnar are on same tech level as I.

-So currently I have 9 cities and am almost ready to DoW Zara. He is teching MC, must have crushed him before he finishes Mach. I will focus on the other continent after that and not so much on settling empty spots on my side.
-My main success in this game has been to steal lots of workes from Memeth. That really helped.

Some experiences on this map and civs:

Spoiler :

-Normally 2nd era is where you get a lot of techs through trade. None of that in this game for me. Had to tech almost everything myself (there goes your FIN advantage). Zara was vey slow, Memeth my war target. Got only Alpha by trade and stole Calender.
-There seems to be no really strong production site around. My Cap with bureau is the best. No high food either to abuse slavery. It may be a good idea to produce cheaper units and use cottage power to upgrade them.
-As for the Numidian Cav: didn't encounter any melee. Lost some (too easily) to chariots. City defending archers are killers (didn't try, just saw the odds) without cats to soften them. So not very impressive. One could always use them to pass +10% retreat promo on to upgrades like knights etc I suppose.

Nice win dates I see here. And pretty good advancements along the way. Macemen in the BC's. They always seems to drive AI's in my game to have Feudalism 2 turns later no matter how early I get them.

 

[Gumbolt]

@ Sampsa. As ever excellent game.

Spoiler :

I did think about doing med war on my game but in the end I decided to wait. I had astronomy for 25 or so turns before I used it properly. Main issue was Vikings would of had 2-3 vassels by the time I had landed. GLH would of helped my game a bit early on.

 

[sampsa]

@Powerfaker

Spoiler :

Some comments:

• Good job on the worker steals, it's really game-changing, especially on slower speeds.
• I think taking HBR with Oracle is a mistake in general, and probably a mistake here too. Since you had maths, you could have taken currency, which is a superb economic tech (extra trade route, resource selling, tech selling, wealth building).
• If you want to go for HBR, it's best done via writing-beeline (scientists to boost research and possibly to bulb maths for chops).
• I don't think GLH is a good build on continents script, since there are often not that many good coastal spots and rarely any islands. It will shine post-astro, sure, but that is a quite a long way ahead and the game is often more or less decided by that point anyway.
• You didn't get much via trade because of your choice to eliminate Mehmed. It means you can't get anything from Zara unless he is friendly.
• You can see if someone has gotten the music artist by de-selecting the tech and hovering over the tech icon on the top of the screen. If nobody has music, there is a line like "first to discover gains a Great Artist". If someone has music, that line is gone.
• Not sure about Shwedagon. Did you use it for something? Philosophy is not far away, and free religion probably wasn't diplomatically good/necessary in your situation.
• 8pt shrine is a rather marginal one, but certainly it will go up in time. I dislike settling and probably that another prophet was better used for a later golden age. Golden ages absolutely rock, assuming you have +10 cities.
• I whipped a lot throughout the game. I didn't cottage every possible tile, but used some grassland farms, too. I think those two flood plains serve best as farmed, as otherwise that city is too low on food.

@Gumbolt

Spoiler :

Thanks again. I am rather proud of my play up to 500AD, but after that I made lots of very poor choices and it cost a lot of energy to even finish the game. Astro not only gives you access to galleons and war on the other continent, but also insures you trade routes when you attack your own continent. Not sure about your game, but in my game taking Mehmed before the other continent would surely have been the best choice.

 

[Gumbolt]

@ Sampsa

Spoiler :

Tough call really. If I had waited on Zara he may have built me GLH. I loaded up my save where I had astronomy and peaked in world builder. Maybe I could of tried an early med war. The Ai mostly had LB. Viking had a 20 or so strong stack at 700ad.

I think my start tech wise was much slower. I missed out on music, and lit and never really found a great NE city.

I was somewhat happy with my final war. After Vikings fell the rest went like dominoes.

Will be tough to beat your date here without some decent micro or gameplay.

 

[SammyW1000]

This is where I am at at 225BC. I feel like this game is nearly won barring any major mistakes - would be interested in feedback on how to play it out to learn skills that I could use at higher levels?

Spoiler :

Zara is gone and we have the GLH. The slight dampener is the problems that the barbs have caused in the north east - Utica's gold tile has been pillaged at least twice now. Mehmed has city walls up but is a couple of techs away from getting longbows - my plan is to carry on with the offensive to take his two elephant cities and his capital if I can get there before he gets his longbows online. I can see from the demographics screen that there is another civ keeping pace with me - I might need to make a bit of a tech detour to get optics so I can get involved in the party early.

Spoiler :

[/IMG]

 

[pigswill]

@Sammy.

Spoiler :

You really ought to have a medic unit: chariot or NC. Mehmed hasn't got monarchy yet so you've plenty of time before longbows. Flanking or combat for cavalry units is a long running debate.
Maybe add a couple of fogbusters and move them further away from your borders.

 

[Gumbolt]

@ Sammy

Are you really doing that well???

Spoiler :

1. 225bc and not a single great person? Wow!
2. Barb issues?? You even have a spare unit in one of your cities that could of been fog busting. You have axes. No excuses really
3. Why have you not expanded more?? The northern fish/ iron city is great with GLH. I had 15+ cities by this date.
4. You have happiness issues here. Why are you not chopping the jungle for the sugar?? HR civic would of really been useful here. You are building a market?? You don't have fur, ivory silk or whale. Seems a waste.
5. Why are you building catapults?? The enemy has 1 archer or so defending it's cities. I don't think the Ottoman empire even has metal hooked up here. 7-8 Numidian Cavalry is enough to take down 2-3 cities here. You already have 6-7 of these.
6. You do realise a monument in your capital gives +1 happiness?
7. What is your fascination with forest??? Workers can chop forest for hammers. This would speed up your wars/city builds greatly.
8. You can afford to whip cities much more. You are working unworked tiles in your cities.

Overall your early city placements here have not helped you. Lots of mistakes really.

 

[pigswill]

@Gumbolt & Sammy.

Spoiler :

Could certainly have done better but still in a position to win the game. Gumbolt has made a lot of pertinent observations but you're doing ok. There certainly is a lot to learn in Civ and experienced players can sometimes forget what it's like lower down in the learning curve.
Just for something to do I've been replaying this on noble.

 

[pigswill]

Quick update on noble game:

Spoiler :

Oracled astronomy 100ad .

Even on Noble Istanbul wasn't easy. 4 archers on a hill, 60% defence from Hindu holy city. It cost me 4-5 NC. I can understand wanting cats.

 

[Powerfaker]

@Powerfaker

Spoiler :

Some comments:

• Good job on the worker steals, it's really game-changing, especially on slower speeds.
• I think taking HBR with Oracle is a mistake in general, and probably a mistake here too. Since you had maths, you could have taken currency, which is a superb economic tech (extra trade route, resource selling, tech selling, wealth building).
• If you want to go for HBR, it's best done via writing-beeline (scientists to boost research and possibly to bulb maths for chops).
• I don't think GLH is a good build on continents script, since there are often not that many good coastal spots and rarely any islands. It will shine post-astro, sure, but that is a quite a long way ahead and the game is often more or less decided by that point anyway.
• You didn't get much via trade because of your choice to eliminate Mehmed. It means you can't get anything from Zara unless he is friendly.
• You can see if someone has gotten the music artist by de-selecting the tech and hovering over the tech icon on the top of the screen. If nobody has music, there is a line like "first to discover gains a Great Artist". If someone has music, that line is gone.
• Not sure about Shwedagon. Did you use it for something? Philosophy is not far away, and free religion probably wasn't diplomatically good/necessary in your situation.
• 8pt shrine is a rather marginal one, but certainly it will go up in time. I dislike settling and probably that another prophet was better used for a later golden age. Golden ages absolutely rock, assuming you have +10 cities.
• I whipped a lot throughout the game. I didn't cottage every possible tile, but used some grassland farms, too. I think those two flood plains serve best as farmed, as otherwise that city is too low on food.

Sampsa, thank you for your comments. Good points. Some further comments from my side.

Spoiler :

- Realized just today I could have taken construction instead of HBR too, which makes it all pretty foolish.

- I had only 3 coastal cities up to 900AD to profit from GLH. Less then I intended and poor indeed. Meanwhile 1st and 2nd war were later and longer than expected => could have put more focus on that.

- Shwedagon was meant for FR. Zara was too backwards for a long time to be of use. Thought it best not to adopt religion, for diplo with the other continent later. A heavier downside here was its hammercost being distracted from the war engine (like GLH).

- Didn't have a purpose for the 2nd prophet. Bulb would give me Mono, or Theo after Mono, both not worth it. Aimed for an artist (Music) for the 1st GA. Had very little GPP. So this prophet would sit forever waiting for a 2nd GA. (neglecting GP's is another flaw I guess). So settled for immediate (lesser) benefit. I'm aware GA's are definitely awesome

I have a good sense for the above mentioned points. Find it harder to judge how little or much my attitude to one AI affects another AI such as Zara being highly unwilling to trade due to war with Memeth. They were both Hindu. All I know is that that often gets you the worst penalty. So that's what I treat with care in my games. Is Memeth more forgiving, thus making Zara a beter target?

Thanks for the tip on how to check out the artist availability (and I guess on GM, GS etc this works too)

Moved on from 730AD to 1515AD.

Spoiler :

Moving on with 9 cities, Memeth eliminated and plotting on Zara.

- Got a GS turned into academy in cap. RNG decided I need another gold tile in my cap.
- DoW on Zara 835AD. Attack with trebs/maces/WA's against mainly LB's, also a few maces/Xbows. No trouble despite losing trebs easy. Took over all 6 cities in the south, including SH, MoM, Mids, AP. Capitulation 1150AD with 1 former barb city left to my NE. He regrows amazingly rapid to 6 citites in that area.
- Settled the island north of Babylon. Ferried over all forces. Upgraded all to canons /rifles /cavalry in preparation of next invasion with ±40 units. It's been GK and Ragnar versus Darius here for I can't remember how long, so decided to keep some balance and go for the weaker brother in crime GK.
- DoW on GK 1410AD. Quick war against inferior units. Capitulation 1515AD. Took over 8 cities (including 5 settled GG's), leaving him 6.
- Got a GArtist after all 1495AD (yeah, great). Started a GA. Going for Taj now too (9 turns). Production is abundant now with levees and railroads everywhere. Units pop out non stop. Next war will follow as soon as all units are healed. Ragnar and darius both have rifles+cavalry but no high numbers as far as i can see (with airships). Expected finish date mid 1600's.

 

[SammyW1000]

@ Pigswill/Gumbolt - thanks both for the feedback!

Spoiler :

Don't worry I'm big enough and ugly enough to take criticism on the chin! I know there's a lot I could improve - I wouldn't be posting my game here otherwise.

One thing with slavery - the interface seems to suggest that if you whip the penalties stack so for example if you have 1 with 5 turns to clear and then add another, you will have 2 x for 15 turns. Have I misunderstood this - will the first unhappy citizen still clear after 5 turns?

I'm a bit wary of going in against Mehmet without catapults - where games have gone wrong in the past I've attacked cities like Istanbul (on hill with high cultural defence, existing promoted archers and the population to whip more), run out of units and then had to regroup and then go again against archers that are now heavily promoted from my aborted attacks and healed up. At my current level of experience I don't have much 'feel' for how many units is enough and tend to go to far on the side of caution.

Is it worth building markets just for the coin bonus? I expect Hadrum to be my best commerce city once the cottages get up and running and was building the market for that rather than for the extra s. Should this wait? Or is it not even necessary?

Am out tomorrow but will try and make some good progress with this on Wednesday.

Cheers again!