NC CXXVI Hannibal

[Tall German Joe]

1260 AD update

Spoiler :

just landed communism, which is saving me about 200 gpt (because I have 24 cities )

this map is insanely large! luckily, every single civ is at war with someone right now. ragnar and his vassal victoria are at war with wang, caesar is at war with sury, and japan just made peace with caesar but is still plotting (against probably wang). rome is losing its war due to khmer's tech advantage, but my current plan is to "help" him out once i get cannons. i have a decent size stack of muskets and trebs already, and should have quite a lot more ready within my projected 8 turn DoW. i'm not sure what will happen after that though. wang was trying for a cultural victory before ragnar invaded him, so I might have to go help with that. otherwise, maybe I'll finally get a deity spaceship victory? I still have a decent tech lead at the moment, and it can only get larger once my new world cities come online (wish I had another half dozen workers) and I conquer my starting continent. this will be cool... I don't think I've gotten a space victory in at least a year lol...

 

[Packers5280]

To 235 CE:

Spoiler :

JC's stack is wiped out the next turn. I then healed up a bit and counterattacked. I took Cumae, a spot that I originally wanted before JC took it. Well it's mine now.

Spoiler :

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I also took out the barb city. After there being 4 archers in it, suddenly there was one, so I took advantage.

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I teched to music, and got the GA. So, I started the golden age.

Spoiler :

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Soon after the peace treaty ended, JC started to plot again. Guess he wants a grudge match. I may press harder once his initial stack is gone. I think I will at least take Antium as punishment. Last I checked, which was right before he moved his stack, there was two archers there.

Spoiler :

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State of the norther empire:

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and the southern portion plus my stack:

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I am considering bulbing astronomy or libbing it. Bulbing it may be a bit faster, as I already bulbed compass. I would need 2-3 GS, and am close to having 67% of one. Either that or lib it, but I would need to weigh it against MT for curs. I do know that I would like to have it. TGL will also help and I will hopefully get it at 2 turns away. With JC being a bit backward, tech trading wise, its me and Sury, so I'd like to find some more eligible partners.

I am also planning on putting the colossus in Hippo. Its got a decent amount of production, even more when the borders pop and I can grow it a bit more, and it has a couple of forests to chop. As someone pointed out earlier, the colossus would be powerful on this map with all of those islands. I currently have only one city that's no on the coast.

 

[Packers5280]

To 655 CE:

Spoiler :

Sure enough, war were declared by JC. Wiped out his stack first turn and advanced. I got a bit carried away and along with the blessing of the RNG gods, I wiped JC out. Lots of nasty jungle in his southern cities, but I caputured 3 workers in his last city. So they will be put to great use.
A couple of war pics: Antium

Spoiler :

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And JC's last resting place, Arretium,:

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All I can say is that Nums are awesome. They proved to be decent counters against praets and they were pretty good against archers, even hill archers. Course that may have been the RNG gods' blessing but it works.

The great lighthouse also helped because some cities have a lot of maintenance, but its not that bad due to the extra trade routes. Rome for example has 10 , but has 7 from trade routes. Once the cothan and courthouse is up, the city is good to go.

Next up: Sury. Although I think it will be a couple of centuries before I attempt to take him on. His culture is becoming a problem and it would be nice to rid of it.

I teched machinery and bulbed optics, so astronomy is next. 86% chance of a GS is 7 turns out, so I may tech what the GS doesn't bulb.

State of the Empire:
Northern:

Spoiler :

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Mid:

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And the southern:

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[blunderwonder]

Imm up to 1500~

Spoiler :

basically an easygoing game for me, not much micro, 4 workers was too few even with only 4 mainland cities, and 2 more on the small island to the west. Because of such early MC and colossus/GLH i ended up workshoping quite a bit of land so that was probably why.

landed GLH, missed TGL, and didnt hook up marble for way too long. Went directly from writing to metal casting. JC/sury were busy expanding, i had 4 cities, and landed colosses, then put 2 cities on the island to the west, and another 3 cities on various small islands. Used moi to land some fail gold, and went the second i landed alphabet i started a war between jc and sury because i figured jc would go after me first if i didnt start something soon. alphabet/metal casting/something was enough to get jc to declare. The war lasted until 1400ish AD, was forever, when jc finally capped to sury, which was a surprise, i figured with praets hed have a big advantage. I even declared for a few turns, lucky sury lost some units early, before his stack arrived, and i got peace for MC, but didnt take a diplo hit from jc. I was the first to lib, took MT, got taj, and was the first to optics/astronomy by alot. Our island didnt have a religion so i didnt get to pacifism a ga, also, i ended up with 3 GM's, and only 2 GS's even, used 2 gms, and one gs for GA's, plus taj. anyway, i went 0 research for like a dozen turns, and upgraded a stack of 30ish numidian calvary with flanking2/combat1, and whipped out another 10-15 cuirs, and ran over sury in 10 turns, and jc in another 10 turns, jc had been expanding to the south after capping, and after i dow'd sury, 2-3 turns later jc broke free, and i ceased fire with him. Anyway, the whole big island is mine, and the biggish island to the west i also captured 2 barb cities, and settled 2 more spots, and ran my culture slider for a turn, im at like 40% of total land with a massive tech lead, and the rest of the world at war so im calling it, i could win space or domination but its mostly just pressing spacebar at this point. My economy is in disarray at this point due to having 40ish cities, but its over for sure. Whole game i really only had 3-4 cities that produced anything, the rest were really just there for commerce. Surprised how well some of you did on deity, i figured youd be boxed in to 2 good mainland cities, and some crappy island cities. with all the ai's getting 10+ cities, figured youd lose any chance at staying in the tech race, or worse yet get dow'd with only a few units. nice job to those of you getting thru this on deity.

 

[byang08]

Can anyone take a look at my save? Monarch 1590 AD

Spoiler :

Got the whole continent to myself, may not have been the best idea for trade routes. Got Astronomy with Lib. Confused as to how to win now, I guess space is the obvious choice? Tech paths are just based on growth I guess.

 

[Tall German Joe]

Can anyone take a look at my save? Monarch 1590 AD

Spoiler :

Got the whole continent to myself, may not have been the best idea for trade routes. Got Astronomy with Lib. Confused as to how to win now, I guess space is the obvious choice? Tech paths are just based on growth I guess.

Spoiler :

yeah, space would be the obvious choice given your situation, or possibly a diplomatic victory. you're in a good position, with a lot of land, a lot of highly developed cities, and a large tech lead.

in either case, I would recommend you build about 30 settlers (I mean that literally! I'm not exaggerating! for every single city, queue up a settler->worker->settler->worker, with maybe a couple galleons mixed in at your better production cities) and take advantage of all this open land you have here! put cities on the little islands, put cities on the big islands across the ocean, put cities on every inch of your continent that you can manage. beeline communism and switch into state property ASAP and whip out some bare essential infrastructure then switch to wealth, and you can easily double or triple your max research income PLUS be at 100% slider. corporation + cothon + SP means that every new city you settle will at the very least break even just from its trade routes, and everything on top of that is pure profit.

this is a lot of work, of course, and you could just coast along till victory given your already large lead. in that case, I recommend beelining assembly line and getting your factories up and ready ASAP.

 

[rfcfanatic]

I have been constantly getting pwned by the Emperor AI, but I'll try one more game. If I fail, I'll abandon Emperor and return to Monarch for the time being.

I'll settle on the plains hill to the east, because it's a plains hill and I wouldn't lose any food resources. Well, except a Clam resource to 2N1W. But what use of 4 food resources when happy cap is low in early game anyway?

Hannibal's starting techs suggest that AH would be out of immediate reach which means that Worker first would very probably be an idle Worker. Maybe I should go for a Workboat first. Food first is the most important thing overall. Worker or Workboat are just different ways to achieve that.

One thing I want to test in this game - is it possible to build GLH and do an HA rush (Numidian Cavalry rush actually) in the SAME game? But whether the rush is going to happen - it all depends on the presence of a Horse resource and an opponent in rush distance.

 

[rfcfanatic]

75 AD

Spoiler :

Sury got just wiped out

Spoiler screenshot :

In this game I did my first worker steal ever in civ4 - I stole a Worker from Sury. There was no way to end that war. Noticing a Horse resource NE from the capital, I sent my 2nd Settler to acquire it ASAP and beelined HBR after Worker techs.

Sury spammed Archers like crazy (some walled cities were protected by 5-6 Archers!), but with superior number of Numidian Cavalry I was able to subdue him eventually. Never thought that Numidian Cavalry rush was possible on Emperor with just 3 cities.

Forget about what I said about GLH + HA/NC rush. It's simply not realistic. Either you build military or you build wonders. You can't do both at the same time, at least in early game.

Not sure what my next move would be. I'd like to stomp JC as well, but my economy is bleeding seriously.

 

[rfcfanatic]

760 AD

Spoiler :

I decided to take the stomp route against JC

Spoiler screenshot :

I also managed to avoid strikes. Building Research and capturing JC's cities kept me from going bankrupt before getting Currency. Now, being completely alone in the known world, I guess it's time for an economy game for some time.

Current city count: 17

 

[rfcfanatic]

R.I.P. Classical Era (1400 BC - 1555 AD)

Spoiler :

Spoiler screenshot :

And now - quickly to Rifling, so I would have means to defend against teeth-baring Toku.

No religion on my continent which means I wouldn't be able to use Theocracy. If I want to make a war without Pentagon, Vassalage will be a must. I've missed the opportunity to use Cuirs and Cavalry sucks anyway.

 

[Tall German Joe]

1890 AD, my first deity spacerace victory.

Spoiler :

could have won via UN or domination way earlier, but I figured I might as well do space since I couldnt even remember the last time I did. infrastructure was mostly completed in the 1700s, so the last 50 or so turns was just hitting end turn while the last few techs trickled in. still felt slow despite getting 5000 beakers a turn, lol...

 

[pomthom]

@rfcfanatic

Spoiler :

You've dominated your huge continent, you can't lose now

 

[dalamb]

Strategy question, spoilered because it mentions map specifics.

Spoiler :

Is it a good idea to eliminate Sury and/or Caesar if you're trying to build the GLH? At higher levels it's apparently not going to work to both rush and build the GLH, but I think it may be possible at Noble and maybe even Monarch. So if you can do both, should you? Eliminating civs reachable pre-Astronomy reduces your trade income, but leaves you with the extra 2 domestic trade routes in each coastal city.

Another factor on this map: there are pre-Astronomy islands you can settle, and they'd get an "overseas" trade boost anyway.

 

[Packers5280]

@dalamb

Spoiler :

I think it would be wise to keep at least one of them around with the GLH. Foreign routes are much more lucrative. I know I only got rid of JC because he declared war on me twice, so I wanted to eliminate him before his stack would larger than 3 Praets and a pult. I did also bulb my way to astronomy, so I also met the other AI's too, which boosted my economy greatly. I don't think you would consider what I did a rush on immortal, but I did not expect to wipe anyone out as early as 655 CE.

Although, Sury is becoming a big culture nuisance for me, so he might be for others as well. I played on a bit and Sury's culture claimed 3 cities I got from JC. Oh, well, guess I got to get them back soon via more warfare once I get curs.

 

[Tall German Joe]

@dalamb

Spoiler :

I would suggest its not a good idea to kill either of them until you have astro if you want to do a GLH strategy. check out the screenshot I posted at the bottom of last page; a size-4, 1-tile island city is pulling in 21 commerce from trade routes and 11 from tiles, per turn, for a total of 41 science per turn with a library. if it loses its foreign trade routes, that would probably drop by almost half in total, as domestic routes for a city that size would only bring in 1's and 2s instead of 4's and 5's! due to the oddness of the starting spot, you'll have a similar situation all across your empire. hardly any room for cottages means that you've got to generate income in other ways!

 

[rfcfanatic]

@pomthom

Spoiler :

Thanks. I hope I won't screw up my early game success in late game It always happens to me on Emperor. Late game is just too complicated.

@dalamb

Spoiler :

Yes, I think that preserving one pre-Astronomy AI may be a good idea. Losing all foreign trade routes can hurt a lot. But on the other hand - if you run Mercantilism, you'll deny the AI all possible ocean trade routes on this map which would slow down their research a little bit. Also, Mercantilism may help you to get into good terms with one certain AI on this map:

Spoiler AI leader screenshot :

 

[Shalvan]

Woah, finally Gotta give it a try when I have some time - right now the internship and finishing my thesis don't leave a lot of free time left

Start definitely looks super awesome.

 

[dalamb]

Monarch, Epic, Events, No Huts, No Barbarians, No Tech Brokering

Spoiler :

I settled on the plains hill 1E; knowing there were going to be horses nearby I teched towards HBR, settled Utica 1S of the horses, and started cranking out Numidian Cavarly forever. I attacked starting in 110BC, and just finished the war a couple of turns ago in 700 AD. But taking over Sury's massive empire has crashed my economy; only by dint of building wealth in cities that ought to be building infrastructure (like courthouses) am I generating positive cash with a 0% slider.

Did other people who went to war crash this badly?

I expect to spend the next several hundred years digging out of the hole, and hoping Caesar stays pleased.

If I can get Taoism from Philosophy, I can get a mutual religion bonus that might keep him off my back until I can recover.

I didn't capture any workers from Sury until the very end of the war, so a lot of cities are just starting to get develped.

Spoiler status :

• The map. If I'd decided to postpone warring in favour of settling the islands I'd probably be significantly better off financially, but Sury expanded so fast I'm not sure I could have beaten him if I'd waited. As it was, I had the advantage of his having started a war with JC a couple of turns before I attacked Sury; conquest would have been a lot harder without that.
  
  Spoiler map :

  
• Techs. I have a few things I can trade with JC if he reasearches something useful; I've already got Iron Working for Aesthetics.
  
• Charts. JC is even with me in power, but I can't afford to build more troops lest they strike.
  
  Spoiler charts :

  
• Wonders. I post this just to show that (a) I did get the GLH despite a horse-archer war, and (b) there are two shrines out there on other continents. So far nobody got religion on my continent.
  
• Demographics. I'm ahead in several important indicators except for gold, where as I said I'm doing quite poorly.
  

Advice appreciated on what to do in the short term; I'm not quite ready to think about the long term yet!

 

[rfcfanatic]

1936 AD

It seems that I'm going to lose that game The price of capturing 3 AI cities has been 50 Artillery units getting wiped out. NobleZarkon, thanks for the map. The early game was really fun but I screwed up in the late game.

 

[pigswill]

@dalamb.

Spoiler :

Forget courthouses, build libraries and run scientists instead. Also settle some island cities, each island city will automatically give a overseas trade route for every other city you have and will more than pay for their own maintenance.

Having a go at this myself: Emperor epic 1120ad.

Spoiler :

Decided I'd go all buildery, settled the islands and built Glight and Colossus which got the economy huming along. managed to found taoism (philosophy researched not bulbed) which spread among my neighbours. Had a quick war v Rome: praetorians v maces. Built loads of other wonders because I could: pyramids, parthenon, glib, MoM, Spaya and Taj. Circumnavigated and met the other civs. Libbed steel in 1100, spend loads of cash upgrading cats and trebs to cannon (don't try this at home, folks) and I'm ready for The Second Punic War.