NC XXI: Rangar

[cripp7]

@Kaytie

Spoiler :

geez your corps are outstanding can you put a save in there? you really need to move up a level or two

 

[dalamb]

Several people have told KK she should move up a level -- but I wonder if she's feeling like I would, if I ever master Noble: I'm going to want to stay there for a while to relax and luxuriate before tackling another challenge.

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

Noble,Marahton, 1909 AD, Dom win

Spoiler :

Well I spent a few turns teching up more modern units then banking gold for mass upgrades. Then when everything was ready I DoW'ed on hammy. I attacked multiple cits at once and took his cities as fast as I could. As soon as I puished him off MY continent and he just had one city left:

After he capped I checked vic conditions:

Close but I needed to wait for Hammy's cities to come out of revolt so I piddled around having my cities building stuff they could and wealth when they didnt have anything else to do and eventually:

I got the win

Here are what the final graphs looked like:

Since not much time has passed since last report they pretty similar.

Final demographics:

Pretty decent leads in most of the categories I think .

ALthough lifespan REALLY needs to be recalculated somehow--I think if you have MORE health bonuses than yucky faces in a city then it should mean a HIGH lifespan. I think way it is now ONLY yucky faces get measured and healthy pluses dont get counted much if at all.

Same deal with global warming. I think like say after industrial age gets going every city that has more yucky faces than health means chance for global warming event and the higher the number of youcky faces past health cap mean greater chance BUT less cities with yucky faces showing the less likely it happens and if you manage to keep ALL your cities below healthy cap either by not building pollution causing stuff or balancing with health stuff then there should be NO chance for GW event. It just seems more fair that way.

Anways all that added up to:

Not a BAD score mind you but honestly at end I kind of felt this game was a runaway and runaway games SHOULD get higher scores dang it

Here is final view of my core empire:

All those cities from uppsala up in top nW down odense on island down in se were cities I fonded or captured from barbs before I went to war with other AI's. Key was prtty much settling Uppsla FIRST to block off that area then fill it up. It DID take me LOOONG time to fill it all up though I think it was in 1400AD or so by time I settled my last city and then it was SEVERAL hundred years before I had everything settled and felt strong enough to start warring with other civs.

My best cities:

My cap:

It was my science city. Not that I really DID anything to make it a science city other than putting an academy in there it just makes more beakers than any other city so it my science city hehe And I KNOW building ICBM's at that point in game MAY be overkill a lil bit BUT shaka DID have some knights and ICBM's DO counter knights pretty well hehe

My hammer city:

It (dont EVEN ask me how to pronounce it) had a IW/Maui combo thing going so it got pretty nice hammers going especially with boost from Mining Inc.

My money city:

I SWEAR Ill take corpie spam over cottage spam most any game even WITH a fin leader. I NEVER get gold cities this good with cottages :/. This is another game where I didnt build a single cottage. Although to be fair Peri, BK and Geaorgie DID cottage the heck out of their lands and when I took em they were full grown towns and villages and that probably main reason economy went BOOMING once I switched to free speech.

And to give credit where credit is due. I COULDNT have taken all that land without my boys. They were lead all the way by General Nebby:

He a lil shy so he hiding behind the flag hehe.

And here is group shot of the boys:

I massed em all in this city just cuz Justy was in WHEOOH and just in case he was feeling froggy at me I put my boys in city closest to his empire just to let him know if he takes a jump then he REALLY gonna have LOTS on his hands hehe.

Top five cities:

I managed a clean sweep this game . And yeah I know building space elevator when I didnt even tech apollo not very smart but I built it for same reason I did internet--sure I dont NEED it but if I build it it means other AI's CANT and besides I LIKE shinies hehe

So thats it for this game. I was hard SLOW going at first but once all the cities started contributing it got better. And corps REALLY helped LOTS. Although I probably SHOULD have levergaed financial more and built more cottages than I did (which was zero hehe) but I think I DID get some use out of coastal cities plus the glh/collosus combo. And while I didnt use zerks any I did use ex zerks --LOTS of amphib attacks by upgraded infantry and then mechs.

I still think I have LOTS of things to work on like city plaement and stuff like in game like this SMART move would have been moving my cap to somewhere more in center especially after I switched out of buracracy but I really didnt have nice candidate until late in game and by then honestly I felt my economy was doing good enough by then--decent bpt and still making nice profit so I really didnt bother with it at that point.

And man was this game loooong hehe maybe next time if he HAVE to have bigger map than normal lets just stop at large

Anyways thx for game and see y'all next one

Kaytie

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

at crip:

Spoiler :

Thanks corps are fun when you can spam em lots but it not rewally anything I did it more just from getting lucky to have tons of resoruces to fuel em. Oops no sorry didnt save the game for this one. Honestly I never figured anyone would WANT one of my saves so I stopped bothering with em. I figured all they be good for is to show ppl what NOT to do (as in playing financial leader and NOT building ANY cottages AT ALL) hehe.

And at crip dalamb et al:

Spoiler :

I KNOW LOTS of ppl say I need to move up a level after games like this which I did get lucky and kind of runaway with at end. BUT LOTS of other games I get whomped.

When NC very first STARTED that first NC game was like just my second or thrid noble game at that point so I really was noble beginner. Before that I played MOSTLY cheifton I really didnt play warlord much at all just about 2 or 3 games or so before saying heck with it and making jump to noble (and timing ended up being PERFECT since afte a cpl of those noble games and I started wondering if I should go back and play warlord a lil more NC happened which gave me help to stay in noble to get better) so for me it felt like BIG jump.

I think I AM getting better but I not expert yet and I dont win NOWHERE near as much as I did on chiefton. I think at this point I am past beginner and am at average/above average noble skill.

And thats fine I like noble. It gives me challenges, sometimes they are HARD I end up banging my head on keyboard challenges but now I am point were I can usually manage to get past em when earlier they would have stopped mne cold. But there are still LOTS of times wehre I cant and get whomped and every once in while there are times where I end up running away which is FUN every now and then. So I think noble is good level for me it a level where I have a CHANCE to end up doing very good if I am lucky and play right but it NO guarantee --I still have to be careful or else I WILL get whomped.

Where as on higher levels I feel like I would get whomped no matter WHAT I did which wouldnt be fun. I get whomped half the time on noble as is but at least at that level I have a chance to every once and while do the whomping hehe

Kaytie

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

Kaytie-You always have a badass impressive modern stack. I love it.

Anyhow, while I DO think you could handle Prince, (Ai still only have warriors), I commend you for doing what's FUN. That is the point of the game. And you always make for a fun writeup (something I admire as I never have the patience to do one.)

BTW-Some people will tell you that not building a single cottage as a fin leader is a sign of skill.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Kaytie:

Spoiler :

If you enjoy your big perfect cities, huge modern stacks, massive corporation, then ignore this post. Videogames are about fun, and if you have fun, that's what really matters.

But really, when you have 15X the commerce and over 20X the production of your closest rival, you are not playing at your level.
I'm 100% sure you are ready for Prince and probably for some soft Monarch games. "Mastering" a level doesn't mean you win 100% of the games. Some starts are simply too bad to do anything with them, at YOUR level. Probably a Diety player can beat Monarch with any kind of garbage start, or a Monarch playing Noble.

Again, if you enjoy the feeling of total domination, stay at Noble and keep having fun. But if you really want to improve, climb up to Prince.

I remember the old PYL game with the same start. You was WAY better than me at that point and got a solid victory. I played a very ugly game (with Liz, no less ), but still moved to Prince after it.

Trust the wise S&Ters, you are ready

 

[dalamb]

I bought a new machine, and because I didn't want to bother installing the old BUG 3.0 I installed 3.5 instead and restarted. Now I can have high-resolution graphics: Civ from time to time started crashing at relatively late stages of the game with "failed to allocate graphics memory."

Spoiler :

This is the checkpoint just after I circumnavigated the globe.

I had 5 goals for this restart, 3 of which I've achieved by this point.

1. Build the Great Lighthouse. Went for sailing first, and built towards a Trading Post every time I was waiting for something else, e.g. while waiting for the next chop to finish. Started GLH in Nidaros as soon as possible after building/chopping/whipping the essentials (2 warriors, worker, settler, trading post, granary). Finished in 1350 BC.
2. Build the Oracle. Stonehenge was totally out of reach with opponents that start with Mysticism, which I knew from the first time around, and I figured I'd need to hustle just to get the oracle. Uppsala, just west of Nidaros, started this right after whipping a monument and a granary, and I chopped 2 forests to help it along. Achieved in 775 BC; chose Metal Casting to aim for the Colossos (and because I didn't think I could wait for CoL etc to bulb CS).
3. Found Confucianism for those extra happiness points from a state religion. Founded in Haithabu (3rd city, near the gold and corn) in 500 BC.
4. Circumnavigate the globe. Just finished, in 125 BC. Here is the pleasant view from when my two galleys "met" -- not really, but their columns of explored territory overlapped.
   Spoiler circumnavigation map :

   
5. Build the Colossos. Started in Nidaros in 170 BC; not sure when it will finish because Nidaros is growing because of the +2 happiness from connecting the gold. It won't take more than 39 turns (from turn 165, 125 BC). I have 5 forests left I could chop, but would prefer to use them for settlers, after Math (now working on Currency; Math is next).

Starting with fishing meant I could build workboats quickly, to use the seafood, so I worked a forested plains hill to get that done in 9 turns, after which Nidaros could grow faster and I could build a worker faster. This meant I didn't immediately need a worker or the usual worker techs. Tech path: sailing (fanatic about getting GLH) > mining > BW; a little while after this I finished the worker, who proceeded to mine and chop. Next: masonry (GLH again!) > wheel > pottery > agr > AH > myst (for monuments and thus 2nd-city growth) > archery > writing (for open borders, to continue exploration). At this point I was ready to try the Oracle chain: meditation > priesthood. After Alphabet I started Currency, and got Polytheism and Iron Working from Washington, and Monotheism from Pacal. Next will be Math, Civil Service, and Machinery, in that order: gotta get those Berserkers! I expect to want both Epics, so would likely fit in Aesthetics and Literature, though possibly from trading.

By now I've met 10 Civs:

Spoiler meeting order :

Charlemagne, Hammurabi, Pericles (destroyed by a barbarian uprising), Kublai Khan, Washington, Hatchepsut, Montezuma, Justinian, Shaka, Pacal. From the first attempt I know where Victoria is.

I have only three cities (should I have built more by now on this map?) and am contemplating where to put the next few:

Spoiler dotmap and commentary/questions :

I want the green city next for marble. Further north there are certainly barbarian cities, so before thinking about where in the Northeast to build, I want to go find them and give my (eventual) Berserkers some practice. I'm not sure about the island cities. If I decide to go for Sid's Sushi, yellow might be worthwhile, but perhaps only if I put the Moai Statues there. Red gets me horses and another kind of seafood. Does a city 1N of the gems make any sense? It would get the gems, plus seafood to work with, plus spices, but otherwise doesn't look very good to me; Haithabu and/or the green city will eventually expand, and I could place a fort on the gems.

So far I've been working on the basis of a good economy with GLH and Colossos, with Oracle enabling MC. Now I need to pick an actual goal! On a large map I despair of lasting through a domination or conquest win, but I'm inclined to conquer nearby AIs, especially Monty. It would be a shame to wast the opportunity for an amphibious Berserker invasion. After that, perhaps settle down for a spaceship victory; in a different recent game I went for a cultural victory but found it tedious.

 

[dalamb]

Initial dotmap
4000-125 BC, plus

Spoiler minor filling in of what I forgot to say :

Huts were mostly gold, which let me keep 100% science for a long time, but also a scout and some experience for him. Evenentually he walked into a barbarian warrior and died, but he explored most of the first continent for me (except American and English Territory). I only had 3 cities for a long time, which may have been a mistake, and only my first two are getting good production, even now. On the other hand, my western neighbours haven't expanded much into all those hills, so I didn't lose any of the locations to the north of me.

1050 AD wasn't a major checkpoint: just where I happened to get by 3 hours after bedtime last night. I've had a chance to read over other peoples' posts and have a few questions/comments before reporting my own progress:

@Ai Shizuka:

Spoiler what I learned from your city locations :

I noticed where you put Bjorgvin, calling it a "good commerce city"; I failed to look past the jungle to see all the cottage-hungry grassland. So thanks for pointing this out; your casual comment about commerce taught me something.

Spoiler reminder of location :

Did you plan to take over the barbarian city to your northwest? I razed it and settled 1S to get the dye, but that will overlap if I try to put something in your location.

But what I really don't understand is why you put Jelling here:

when 1SW would have got marble, too. I guessed you might have wanted to get the dye, also, but that wasn't too hard to get by putting a city further north; another guess: maybe the fog to your north means you hadn't seen the food resources further north?

You kept Xochicalco and Calixtlahuaca on the islands south of Nidaros; I razed two Aztec cities in similar sites and build anew 2N of the horses. I don't know which is better; anybody have any suggestions/evaluations?

@Anomander Rake:

Spoiler :

I also didn't get many cities at first, maybe just as slowly as you did, but think I'm doing OK despite that.

@djvandrake:

Spoiler :

Thanks for these dotmap:

Spoiler north :

Spoiler west :

I hand't noticed all those locations , and may now miss them because of Charlemagne's expansion. Still a bit of time left... Edit: just bought Charlemagne's world map, and see he has built two small cities on "my" side of the mountains, but there's still some opportunity for me.

And as to what I've been up to:

Spoiler report and requests for advice :

Having founded Confucianism, circumnavigated the globe and built the GLH and Oracle in the last checkpoint, I finished my 5th goal, the Colossos. I figured I needed to sacrifice most of my remaining forests, rather that retain them for chopping settlers, because of the lack of copper and a general feeling that I was progressing slower than I "should."

I then looked around. In the long term I'm currently aiming for a spaceship territory, but plan on stomping with berserkers a bit. I built up some defensive archers (having been behind most AIs I could examne) first. I took out Monty's two island cities south of me, and replaced them with one city 2n of the horses. Sure is fun to attack with city-raider amphibious berserkers! During the war I acquired Feudalism and Theology in trade, and am not running Theocracy to get double promotions. The war has stalled as I build more berserkers; I attacked before being really ready for a full continental war, and have some berserkers recovering in Monty's southernmost city while prepping for hitting his last two cities -- both coastal but the northern one is on a hill and the capital may be tough, so I expect to have to bring along some catapults (Construction recently traded from someone unrecorded). 4-move galleys (from Trading Posts and circumnavigating) are making resupply a lot easier than I imagine an overseas war might usually be.

The large map means plenty of civilizations lacked religions long enough for me to spread Confucianism: I sent single missionaries to Charlemagne and Hammurabi, and it spread to Justinian. Vicky was pagan when I dispatched a missionary to her, but had converted to Christianity by the time he got there. It apparently spread to Kublai from Hammurabi, but he and I have a bad history so he's Cautious instead of Friendly (H&C) or Pleased (Justinian). It surprised me that Pacal is also Friendly despite a religious difference until I saw: +6 from Hereditary Rule! +2 from Open Borders, +4 from "fair trade" (ie caving on all his demands) and +2 from "mutual military struggle" after I bribed him to help me attack Monty. Only -1 from religion; is he just that less fanatic than other people like Izzy? After I consolidate my Aztec conquests, we might start getting border tensions; is it worthwhile spreading Confucianism to the Maya and trying to bribe him to convert? That would give all 3 of my nearest neighbours as friendly co-religionists. Can you ever get someone like Pacal to voluntarily vassalize without war? I could then gift him all of Monty's old cities to reduce maintenance. On the other hand, with fairly poor production so far, maybe I need to keep them.

I won the race to Philosophy and seem likely to win Liberalism; with a spaceship victory in mind I expect to take Printing Press as the free tech, but I'd welcome advice.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Dalamb:

Spoiler :

Circassian (barb city) was in my plans, but I delayed it and Hamm captured it at some point.

Not sure about Jelling, but I think I've founded it there to work the dye. Probably 1 SW was better, but it was a mediocre city anyway. Still, a mediocre production city, so claiming the marble was probably better.
At that point I had already decided to stop my northern expansion. The land up there is really mediocre, beside the NE green peninsula and a couple spots on the W coast. So I just founded a last city on the W coast (Roskilde) and then focused on war.

My original plan for the southern islands was 2N of horses as well, but at that stage of the game I can't really be bothered to raze and rebuild, unless the captured cities are REALLY bad. I think I've built the Moais in Xochicalco.