NC XXXV: Julius Caesar

[GGS]

@dalamb. City locations.

Spoiler :

If the early Roman war machine is a go I think you can only afford to build one city so it really needs to be anchored on the southern rice and hills. This Team Rome went 1SE of the rice.

 

[GGS]

Prince/Epic. Checkpoint 1. 1000 BC.
It opened as proposed.

Spoiler :

Rome was founded on the stone. The tech order was: Mysticism, BW, IW (brilliant iron location), the Wheel, Agriculture, Pottery, Writing. The early build order was: workboat, Stonehenge (for the pops), warrior, barracks, warrior, settler, worker, worker. Joao II was met in 3900; Shaka and Genghis Khan in 3425 but only one hut was found for experience and the Mongol hometown is a mystery. In 1650 Rome got the shield thing for Cover I.

Settling Antium near the copper as a forward base was tempting but it went 1 SE of the rice for quicker hammers in 2275. The Portugese War began in 1275; the city 3E of the pig was razed, Lisbon was kept, the next is unfortunately on a hill. Rome has a great military instructor which probably should have gone to Antium as the government decided to slow the war effort to build the Pyramids. Within nine turns there will be a happy populace or a military coup - only time will tell.

 

[dalamb]

Thanks for all the advice. My goal with the dotmap was primarily to figure a good 2nd production city for more/faster praets.; I talked about lots of cities and forgot to specify my main interest.

Yeah if you are playing noble you dont need the UU to rush an AI.

Maybe you don't but I'm still working my way towards mastering Noble.

No free archery, hence no free archers, on a scenario.

If you do "Custom Scenario" you can pick Deity and all its AI bonuses (boni? we're Romans here, after all ). That's one reason lots of people still play the NC series, 'cause you can play whatever level you like best and see how thing work out for a lot of people who play at a lot of different levels. I couldn't win at Deity so wouldn't play a Diety-only scenario, but still learn a little bit from their transcripts.

 

[Amao]

Thanks for all the advice. My goal with the dotmap was primarily to figure a good 2nd production city for more/faster praets.; I talked about lots of cities and forgot to specify my main interest.Maybe you don't but I'm still working my way towards mastering Noble.If you do "Custom Scenario" you can pick Deity and all its AI bonuses (boni? we're Romans here, after all ). That's one reason lots of people still play the NC series, 'cause you can play whatever level you like best and see how thing work out for a lot of people who play at a lot of different levels. I couldn't win at Deity but still learn something from their transcripts.

i haven't verified that myself yet. but i remember people talked about this earlier in the series. i'll let TMIT or other seasoned scenario makers to verify the details on higher levels.

 

[andersw]

I've played a few of these NC games and read a lot more, is it just me or have I figured out the general setting?

Spoiler :

Settle in place is never the best spot.
You never get an extreme resource (gold, gems) in BFC, a couple of nasty AI's are garantueed this.
You often get a REX'er AI nearby (so you get choked).
The heavy techers are far to reach (so they can do their work in peace).
So w/o having looked at the save I'd consider the following leaders to be on the other continent: Mansa (for tech), Isabella (diplo) and Ragnar (to mess with your naval attack), maybe Ragnar is swapped for shaka or napoleon. All with plenty of space to expand.

Maybe it needs this sort of setup for a good enough educational value....

 

[dalamb]

@andersw: I didn't choose opponents. I did inspect the map to make sure there was iron nearby (regenerating a few times to ensure this plus a seafood start). Should I have been more creative? I'll start a discussion in the bullpen.

 

[andersw]

@andersw: I didn't choose opponents. I did inspect the map to make sure there was iron nearby (regenerating a few times to ensure this plus a seafood start). Should I have been more creative? I'll start a discussion in the bullpen.

Ahh, maybe it was Rolo's maps that was more demanding in player creativity....
Chosen leaders are probably more difficult, not sure myself if more fun...

Spoiler :

However the random Shaka and Jhao on same island is a nice touch

Good point, better to discuss this in the bullpen.

 

[Silu]

i haven't verified that myself yet. but i remember people talked about this earlier in the series. i'll let TMIT or other seasoned scenario makers to verify the details on higher levels.

The starting units are not changed by changing the scenario difficulty, nor are the starting techs. So if the WB save was created for below Monarch, AIs won't have Archery or Archers. This is why some forum games offer multiple WB saves for multiple levels (often Noble, Monarch, Immortal).

EDIT:

Almost there! One step left, and that's to clean the starting units:

Simple Way:

- Use find and replace. Find "beginunit" and replace it with a blank. Do the same for "endunit". Done. All units will now spawn based on the techs assigned to the civ and the difficulty the player chooses.

Note: For games that are monarch+, the AI is supposed to start with archery. The above needs an extra step if you did not start with a monarch save originally:

- Add "Tech=TECH_ARCHERY" to the AI civs. Do note that you actually need 2-3 WB saves if you want bonuses to perfectly scale with difficulty. Usually though, just tacking on archery as needed will suffice. Maybe R_Rolo1 will yell at me here but nobody cares .

So starting units work, techs don't. Which means starting units won't as they are dependent on the starting techs

 

[dalamb]

Au contraire: the edits TMIT and r_rolo1 taught me give your enemies the right techs and units. I just verified the units by running the scenario at Deity and WB'd a scout next to one of my opponents, to find 2 scouts, 2 settlers, and a worker. I don't know how to check the technologies, though, but suspect they're OK too. I guess I could hit "enter" a bunch of times and see whether they build any archers.

 

[duckstab]

OK, I'm starting a bit late, and I'll probably be playing a bit slower than everyone else, but I'm in. Never played Rome before, actually, so this should be fun.

Noble/Epic

I'm going to settle in place. It's a good start with all the seafood. I'll probably only build one workboat initially because I figure the rest of the seafood can be exploited at leisure.

Folks have been suggesting building Stonehenge, but what do people think of the Great Wall? I'm kind of torn. I've used it pretty effectively with Justinian, and it gives a great early espionage advantage. The extra points towards Great Generals probably aren't likely to be as useful with JC since I don't plan on fighting much on defense. Thoughts?

 

[Amao]

OK, I'm starting a bit late, and I'll probably be playing a bit slower than everyone else, but I'm in. Never played Rome before, actually, so this should be fun.

Noble/Epic

I'm going to settle in place. It's a good start with all the seafood. I'll probably only build one workboat initially because I figure the rest of the seafood can be exploited at leisure.

Folks have been suggesting building Stonehenge, but what do people think of the Great Wall? I'm kind of torn. I've used it pretty effectively with Justinian, and it gives a great early espionage advantage. The extra points towards Great Generals probably aren't likely to be as useful with JC since I don't plan on fighting much on defense. Thoughts?

There isn't much to steal on Noble. If you dedicated to praet rush, you need to worry more about roading to enemy territery and the maintanance than teching. Just my $.02.

 

[Trystero]

I haven't played in a while, but here goes nothing...

Prince/Epic

I usually settle in place, and rarely settle my capital on a resource, but it sounded like a strong opening, so I went with that and the BW>Myst>Masonry>IW initial tech path that was discussed.

Spoiler :

My initial build order was:
WB>WB>Warrior>Warrior>Worker>Stonehenge>Settler>Warrior>Settler >Warrior

The first WB worked one the coastal fish tiles, the other went exploring. I usually try to build SH if I can (I finished it in 2725), and the stone spared a lot of trees in my BFC.

I like to expand toward the AI civs in war games, so I settled toward Joao and Shaka. The Roman Empire in 1000 BC looks like this:



Antium is a nice copper/dye/irrigated wheat city, but the jungle location really slowed its development. My city specialization is still in the learning phase, but it seems that will eventually be a nice commerce city or GP farm.

I have the iron in Rome hooked up and have 4-5 Praets built so far. One problem is that Rome is the only good production city so far. I founded Neapolis (which has 4 hills and a riverside rice) to hopefully address this issue. I settled Cumae as a blocking city, but it might have decent production as well if I build the Maori Statues there.

My tech research after IW focused on the missing worker techs. My scouting warrior popped The Wheel from a hut (and 82 gold from another), which helped. Here's the current state of affairs:



I'm currently researching Mathematics with the aim of getting Construction for a Praet/Cat invasion force.

Happiness is becoming an issue. Math would also open up Calendar, which would help in that regard. Since I have stone, however, I'm considering going for the Pyramids to run Representation. I have plenty of trees for chopping in Rome, so it seems doable. Especially since the only other Wonder that's been built is The Oracle. Clearly there are no Industrious leaders in this game. And Izzy isn't around either. Judaism was founded in 1025 BC. I can't remember seeing Monotheism get teched that late before.

So from here my short term goal is Construction for catapults, and then pick an initial target. Probably Shaka.

A question:

Spoiler :

Rome is going to get a GP in 5 turns. At this point he would bulb Meditation. Given the lack of religion, I don't see the point in saving him for a shrine. I am thinking of settling him mostly for the extra gold and hammers he provides, but I don't want to dilute the GE points from The Pyramids in Rome (if I can build the wonder), since I'd like a GE to help build the Great Library in Antium. So I think he should settle in either Neapolis or Cumae. Would a Golden Age be a better idea at this point?

Edit after reading some of the other posts:

Spoiler :

Am I being way to conservative here? Should I just delay Pyramids and build a few more Praets and go after Joao or Shaka? I don't have much experience playing Rome. I usually go with Cyrus for my warmongering.

 

[Ecori]

@ Trystero:

Spoiler :

Getting Construction for cats is def overkill. Praets kill everything before Longbows/Xbows, so siege is not needed even when attacking walled cities. None of your opponents have founded any rel, so cultural def is weak aswell. Wether or not to complete the Mids before praets is difficult to say. I was afraid to start building them and then lose the mids, so didn't go for them (playing on imortal) and instead cracked out Praets to conquer my neighbors. However my economy is crap so could really have used Representation, but you canot have it all...

 

[dalamb]

4000-2525 BC: getting started, initial dotmap

This is a little early for a new report, but I wanted to ask some strategic questions:

Spoiler :

I settled Antium north near the sheep/clams for a production city, and Cumae 1SE of the rice as some people advised, and stopped there; 3 cities should be enough for an invasion of Joao and Shaka, the nearest 2. The Mongols are no longer an issue, having been eliminated around 3000BC, likely by the nasty Vedic Aryans.

After IW, I tech'ed Agr > Wheel > AH > Pott and have just finished Writing; I'll open borders and explore the rest of the innards of my opponents' territory while building up praets (only 3 so far). While tech'ing Agriculture I got a great event for someone planning a a Praet attack:


The world as I know it:

The details:

• North. Note Oporto location, and Joao's nice gold.
  
• South. Shaka has iron nearby but hasn't improved it yet (likely doesn't have IW yet).
  

I won't attack for a while yet; need more praets than 3, and I have to bring home a a nice Woods III warrior from way south of Shaka (promoted via a hut after killing a few animals) to heal everybody. Here are the questions:

1. Shaka or Joao first? Joao is a REXer, isn't he? He's closest and has that nice gold, but if I leave him alone for a bit he may build me a few more nice cities.
2. When I do go for him: Oporto would be a lot better if it were 1W or 2SW of its current location. Should I raze and rebuild?
3. Should I promote the Woods III warrior to a praetorian? Normally you don't promote medics, but he'd be a better healer if I could get him more XP for Combat I and Medic I, and he can gain those XP better if he's a praet.

Non-spoiler question: if one eliminates one's neighbours pre-alphabet one gets no trade partners. Can one extort techs for peace treaties pre-alphabet?

 

[Shafi]

Update as at 230 BC - Monarch / Epic

Spoiler :

Ok, so this is turning out to be a bit of a cakewalk. Just killed Shaka. So 2 down, 1 to go, in fact i hardly lost any units in the war against shaka, until the final city which was on a city, that too was a bit unlucky on the RNG. Meanwhile i'm also making a run for the mids in Antium, lets see if it works out. I am also begining to build settlers for peaceful backfill of land as my economy is fairly healthy due to all the war booty , a few screen shots ...







So time to go pay our 'friend' Genghis a visit with our Preats now ...

save game file is attached.

 

[Shafi]

@ Dalamb -

I dont think you should be worrying about tech trading partners, just kill everyone settle the entire continent and research everything by yourself until Astronomy ...

With regard to spoiler questions,

Spoiler :

I would say Joao first since,
(1) He's closer to you, so we take his cities first.
(2) He;s got the nice gold you spoke of
(3) Shaka will definitely build more units and you will want more Preats + a well promoted army when you take him on.
But with Genghis gone, this should be a cakewalk now, hurry up and go kill your neighbours

Good luck !!!

 

[Shafi]

Edit after reading some of the other posts:

Spoiler :

Am I being way to conservative here? Should I just delay Pyramids and build a few more Praets and go after Joao or Shaka? I don't have much experience playing Rome. I usually go with Cyrus for my warmongering.

Spoiler :

Yes. Way too conservative in my opinion, but then i always lean towards the earliest possible oppurtunity for war. Preats definitely dont need any help, use them quick before your targets start building lots of Axes, after that it becomes a little more difficult, but you should still be ok, if you can get your army promoted to CRII. Have a look at my last update to see how different the approach is.

 

[Ecori]

Immortal/normal 125ad:

Spoiler :

Not much happened. Killed off Shaka. razed 4 cities and kept 3 having a total of 8 cities by 1ad.
The additions to the empire:


Beelined CoL traded that and AB to GK for Monarchy, now researching currency by building research in most cities.
Gonna try to kill GK now while I'm still stronger. Note that he's more advanced than me!

 

[GGS]

@ duckstab
The Great Wall or Stonehenge in this situation? Rome should have enough building, moving, garrison troops to deal with barbarians. Perhaps half of the yet-to-be liberated cities will be worth keeping so a quick cultural expansion into the BFC seems a solid benefit.

 

[Groogaroo]

Finally got some free time to get started on this and played up to the first checkpoint.

Update - 1100BC (Turn 116) Monarch/Epic

Spoiler :

First thoughts are this map has a lot of opportunity for a rex, lots of free land and our traits are org/Imp, but thats hardly in the spirit of things so I plan to settle one additional city early and wipe out my niehgbours Asap.

Tech Path - Bronzeworking > Ironworking > Aggriculture > Animal Husb > Writing > Wheel > Pottery > Alphabet

Build order in the capital - Workboat > Workboat > Worker > Warrior > Worker > Settler > Barracks > Praet x lots

I built my second city very close to the original capital and both cities were set up for troop production.




At about turn 92 (1700 BC) with 9 praets I declare on Joao.




Made fairly short work of him even though he had axes in a few cities, but I did have some trouble locating his last city . His capital had stonehenge & gold, nice!

Here's how the lay of the land looks,




and Power... I can't see Genghis yet




I have 4 cities all of which should provide enough early hammers to pump out more praets to push on to my next opponent, probably Shaka.

Problem is I have easily enough land available as it is could probably hunker down for the win without any more war, but my gut says just wipe everyone out now while I have the advantage.

Having fun with this one