NCSG2-Team 1-Lincoln!

[grandad1982]

It was more of a metophorical whip crack with an eye on the future.

What is it 11/12 turns for the WB if we work the plains hill? Mining will take ummm 9 turns? Bronze will take 20 odd if we don't work any commerce tiles so around 30 turns till we can have the ability to chop our hills.

So IMO its best to build the first two work boats and whip a worker when we have two food sources to grow on. Grow with a warrior or two then worker or settler.

I don't have then right epic speed mubers for research to hand so I can't really work out the exact time for research! I'm pretty slack on the old maths side of CIV

 

[grandad1982]

Now now Bleys lets remeber what rolo said! I'm not sure about GLH and Colossus as well as the mids! I'd like the great wall maybe as some great spys settled and a scotland yard will help lots in stealing some techs. In this way EP is like the commerce from GLH and Colossus.

What do you reckon?

Edit. With cast we can farm GMs! I want to do that lots.

 

[Krick19]

Guys, I made a pretty bad choice since I worked the Plains Hill first. Sorry bout that, I thought it would grow better.

Turn 1
Moved the Warrior, doesn't look promising.

Turn 2
I decide to just go 1S, aaannd. . .

Lots of next turning and exploring

Turn 6
My warrior gets lucky when he hits a Hut.

Some more Next turning and exploring

Turn 13
The Boat and Mining come in at the same time, and I switch the worked tile to the clams.

Some more Next turning and exploring

Turn 18
We meet our first rival

Turn 20
Round's done, just a shot of our map and washington. Again, sorry bout the working of the plains hill.
Washington:

Map:

 

[S.ilver]

I got it. After BW, I see AH or Sailing as suggestions. Pottery is obviously not too high of a priority, so I'll play it by ear.

 

[S.ilver]

3500BC (20):

Preflight check. Well, not much of a preflight check. We have one unit, and are working the clams with our one citizen. I notice that Washington is undefended, and our warrior is eons away. He still has moves so I move. Hoping the AI is not opportunistic, I hit enter.

3475BC (21):

Well, since Mehmed didn't declare war, I'm taking that as a sign we're not going to get sniped.

Move the warrior again and find that we are apparently on a thin strip of land.

Spoiler :

3450BC (22):

Washington is now size 2, and the governor automatically assigns the citizen to work the unimproved cows. This will grow Washington in 7 turns, and take 33 to finish the workboat. Grandad wants to whip a worker out when we get slavery, but I've read somewhere that the primary purpose of whipping is converting food to shields, which workers already do.

I do a search on the forums and find that slavery gets 45 hammers per citizen on Epic (pulled from a post made by Bleys actually . Yeah I didn't know the slavery hammer output ). Our next citizen will take 36 food to grow, and we have an abundance of it if we work the clams, so it does seem like a good idea to whip. I stay the course with working pure foods.

3425BC (23):

Waiting for stuff to build is boring...

3400BC (24):

Some nice land down south, and then more desert. I think it's the end of the continent. I'll post pics when I find out more.

3375BC (25):

Lions! Hope the warrior survives.

3350BC (26):

Warrior defends against lions flawlessly. Mehmed also gets a free pasture built in his lands (great...).

3325BC (27):

Short borders down south... We run into a desert channel.

Spoiler :

3300BC (28):

Zzzz...

3275BC (29):

Washington hits size 3 this turn! We are now working the plains hill, for about 3 turns of hammers.

3250BC (30):

Hinduism is founded in a distant land.

3325BC (31):

Warrior spots bears and starts running.

3200BC (32):

Spoiler :

No copper in sight. Drat.

Dial up Sailing, as Lighthouses are keen, especially as we will have 2 nets very soon. Also revolt immediately into Slavery.

3175BC (33):

We are back in control again and I zoom into Washington. 31/45 on the workboat done. Realize we only have 1 whippable pop, and it will stay that way. Realize that Grandad was saying "whip the worker, not the workboats", so shrug and let the workboat finish naturally. Reconfigure for 3 turns instead of 4.

3150BC (34):

Zzz...

3125BC (35):

Zzz...

3100BC (36):

Two lions appear out of the fog in the LoS of Washington this turn.

Boat is done this turn, send it to the clams. Washington growth report says it grows in 7 turns. (I'm ASSUMING we get an extra whippable pop in those turns. Actually, assuming is bad. I save the game, start up a new game, and go into WB to test that thought. Ok, WB does say I get 2 whippable pop, yay. So will let Washington grow some more so I can whip a 2 turn settler later.) Dial up a warrior in 6 turns. There's some overflow, so I'll try to make it grow at the same time the warrior is done.

3075BC (37):

Net the clams and now we're at 5 for growth and 5 for the warrior. Love it when a plan comes together. (As well as slashing Sailing due to 2 extra commerce from the clams)

3050BC (38):

Zzz...

3025BC (39):

Zzz...

3000BC (40):

We have a few options here.

1) Working the forested plains hill grows us in 2 turns, and finishes the warrior in 2 turns, with 2 hammers overflowing into the worker (which is next right?). Food overflow into the citizen growth box is 2.

2) Working the forested grassland hill grows us in 2 turns with 0 hammers overflowing into the worker (which doesn't really matter due to us whipping it anyways after 1 turn of building right?). We also store 4 food towards the next citizen.

3) Working the forested grassland grows us immediately, but delays the warrior to 3 turns, with 4 hammers left to complete after next turn. However, we can switch to the worker immediately, and put 1 turn of production into it and whip it for a worker on turn 43. (worker should have 9 hammers in it from one turn of production, which means 18 hammers of overflow into the next build, since we'll get the full 90 from the double whip)

I think option 3 is the best, as it gets as a worker the fastest, and allows us to put 18 hammers into a settler (plus whatever the 2 remaining citizens produce), before switching production back to the warrior so we have some defense. We can then use the worker to chop the settler out.

Spoiler :

Either way, here's a view of the world currently.

Spoiler :

ROSTER
1. Krick19
2. S.ilver <-- Just Played --
3. grandad1982 ** UP NOW **
4. Bleys <-- On Deck --

 

[grandad1982]

Oh man our land looks food poor. Also where are the calander resourses?!!!!

@krick.

Working the plains hill first for the WB is the best option. I think. So don't sweat it! Its what I'd do!

@S.ilver

I like your plan 3 too. One thing though. After the overflow goes to the settler I would consider putting a warrior back infront. Why? We really need to start fog busting.

Also after sailing then Should I go for AH, Archery or Masonary?

AH - hook up cows and hopefully find nearby horses

Archery - in the absence of any obvious bronze this is the best military unit we can be 100% sure of

Masonary - open up Mids, GW and GLH

I think I prefer AH, but archery is pretty tempting since we popped hunting.

Masonary could probably be put off but if we want the great wall not for that long.

I won't post a got it yet as I might not be able to play till tuesday!!! Some rubbish has just popped up in real life and I need to deal with it.

If thats to long for you guys I'm happy to swap with Bleys.

 

[S.ilver]

@S.ilver

I like your plan 3 too. One thing though. After the overflow goes to the settler I would consider putting a warrior back infront. Why? We really need to start fog busting.

Of course. I think I said that too in my post. The logic there is that building a settler with 2 working citizens isn't going to be too fun, so best let the city grow a bit. I think we can switch back to the settler as chops finish, so we aren't bleeding our food into the settler (as whipping appears more efficient at the moment).

 

[grandad1982]

Oh I see. So: grow> worker for 1 turn then whip> overflow in to settler> warrior finished> warriors till 3 pop> settler.

Chops in to second warrior or just settler. Will pop reach 3 in 6 turns (moving and chopping (i think))?

Also DON'T chop the plains hill that an unpillageble 3 When we have a couple of fog busters then its ok. Chop the forest 1N of cows so where heading in that direction for the cows and the 2 grassland hills

We need to explore W and N so we can dotmap.

What do you think of great wall? Lets not piss Mehmed off. I'm glad its him as I've never played against him. Guess we should watch for hiss UU. If its a small continent we should consider killing him off eventually. We should try to block him with cities. If he does attack then the great wall would be be good for a defensive war. Also funneling barbs towards him.

Lets get the GW. Please? Chop it out its cheap!

 

[S.ilver]

Good point about not chopping the plains hill.

You've got the gist behind building the warriors and settlers. If Bleys or Krick have better plans though, I'm obviously willing to go with those.

As for wonders... I'm not sure about the GW. It's good if we want an EE, but since we cannot build cottages, we have limited cash for the slider, and have to get all espionage through Great Spies and Spy specs (which we can run a grand total of ONE in each city until Constitution and jails).

GW may be cheap, but I'd rather put those chops towards the Pyramids, which will directly benefit our SE efforts.

 

[gigi_muschi]

After talking to S.ilver i want to join this game if you want me in. I play mostly prince in singleplayer and i while i was browsing CivFanatics forums for some info i stumbled upon this section of their forums. I find these type of games entertaining thanks to all the communication inside the team and i would really appreciate if you could let me take part of this one.

 

[grandad1982]

Yer your probably right. Mids is more important than GW. Still mids usually falls later. Has henge gone yet?

Also do we think that Mehmed is the only ai on our continent? If so then EP is less important IMO.

As for cash we could set a GM farm up. Could become our Wall Street city eventually.

One last thing. I really don't think I have time to play till tuesday! I might be able to play tomorrow afternoon but not sure. Guess that means I need to skip!

Ok I skip (unless you don't mind waiting). Balls. RL!!!!!!

 

[S.ilver]

Ok, firstly we welcome gigi_muschi to the team, and to CivFanatics! We're glad to have you here.

Secondly, grandad has says he needs a skip, but since he can play on Tuesday, we can probably reshuffle the roster (since this is round one). So let's do this.

ROSTER
1. Krick19
2. S.ilver <-- Just Played --
3. Bleys ** UP NOW **
4. grandad1982 <-- On Deck --
5. gigi_muschi

 

[Bleys]

OK grabbing it. A solid start so far. These seafood games always get a bit convoluted when you start with Fishing. Its almost nicer NOT to start with Fishing, so you can build that worker while teching Fishing, then improve a tile while growing with workboats til BW comes in, then chop and whip the other boats. I have a harder time when I start with Fishing too. The current LHC is Washington, with a seafood start, and I did it almost the same as you guys.

I am still liking the GLH at least. With this thin land, our cities are going to be coastal. We also need Pottery soonish as well, since we want Granaries. Lots of forests though, so production is not a huge problem for now. Do we want to discuss an Oracle--> MC Swing? Mids are primary, but Forges . . . alas! It we were only Roosevelt!!

Maybe we skip Oracle, skip Colossus, and go after Mids and GLH. Thats not ambitious, eh? I dont know, I will have a look at the game and see if it looks doable. We need some settlers since we met Mehmed pretty fast, so hes close.

 

[S.ilver]

Yeah, seafood starts always provoke a torn decision from me; build boats or workers? Boats are one time use, but the city can grow. You're not helping your production with just boats though... Oh the indecision!

I read some article in the strategy section about too much seafood, or food in general (here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=273115). So it's probably prudent to delay more workboats, as 2 nets is fine, and we have the cows which will give hammers as well.

 

[Bleys]

OK turns done, going to post from the log. We are in pretty decent shape here, I think.


Turn 40/750 (3000 BC)

Got a nice surprise the very first turn, moved our warrior 1N, and BOOM! COPPER!! And its close too! I think this means we take out Mehmed ASAP, with a semi-Axe rush. First we need to cut him off though.

Spoiler :

I also adjusted one tile in the capitol so that the 2nd warrior would come out at the same moment as we gained a pop. Started a Worker, with 4 pop, it will be done pretty quickly. Not planning to whip him. We should use the Whip on settlers though, for sure.

Being CHA is killer strong in the early game. +1 happy, plus +1 for a Monument. I think that means we should look at Stonehenge, but if we go for Henge, we would need to delay taking out Mehmed. Maybe we dont have to rush at Mehmed though, we can crank out 2 settlers and cut him off instead. Here is where he is, and he has a couple Archers + settler already on the way to his 2nd city. Monarch level means we cant take them out, either, but no worries, lets just hope he doesnt try to settle that Copper. We must get there first. This screenie is from my last turn of the set.

Spoiler :

Turn 41/750 (2975 BC)
Washington grows to size 4
Washington finishes: Warrior

Turn 42/750 (2950 BC)
Washington begins: Worker (10 turns)
Civics Change: Mehmed II(Ottomans) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Slavery means he knows where the Copper is. If he settles it, we are in BIG trouble.

Turn 46/750 (2850 BC)
Tech learned: Sailing

Sailing in, I start Myst. We will need Monuments for culture no matter what, and it opens up Stoney if we want to have a go.

Turn 47/750 (2825 BC)
Research begun: Mysticism (8 Turns)

Turn 51/750 (2725 BC)
Washington finishes: Worker

We finish a worker, I start our 3rd boat. My plan is to sail it along the coast to the south, then explore those islands on the west side of our landmass. We should get the 3rd clam online the next set though, for sure. 3 clams + LH can crank out settlers, 2-pop whips will be strong with a 6+ happy cap, grow back to cap, whip another settler. We could build Stonehenge with this method, but we may be better off with Axes (provided we get the Copper)

Turn 52/750 (2700 BC)
Washington begins: Work Boat (12 turns)

Turn 54/750 (2650 BC)
Tech learned: Mysticism

Spoiler :

Myst comes in, I start Masonry. I know I tend to be a "Wonder Addict", but I really think that without cottages, our best bet to support ourselves financially is the GLH. Without it, a cottage-less SE is going to be hurting for cash, and we will have to run Merchants to make up for it. Thats not a bad thing, but I think we can get the GLH, Mids, and still rush Mehmed. Lots of Forests and a high-food capitol for whipping is strong for that plan.

Turn 55/750 (2625 BC)
Research begun: Masonry (10 Turns)

Turn 57/750 (2575 BC)
Washington finishes: Work Boat

Boat is done, I start the Lighthouse. EXP means double production, so we want to put a Forest into it, and whip it at the end, maybe. Also got another promotion to our warrior, Wood II.

Turn 58/750 (2550 BC)
Washington begins: Lighthouse (23 turns)
While defending in the wild near Istanbul, Warrior (1.48/2) defeats Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
Warrior promoted: Woodsman II

And thats about it. Here is a look at Washington:

Spoiler :

Next set, I think we should try for the following:

At least 1 if not 2 settlers, grabbing the Copper and whichever side of the land Mehmed doesnt settle.

We need to make a decision on our Wonder plans. Mids are a must, but I think they can wait a bit. Stoney is possible, I forsee a bunch of cities and they would help a lot with immediate growth (by not having to whip a Monument at 2-pop). GLH would be strong, it looks like almost all our cities will be coastal (or we can make them so if we decide to go that way).

I dont think Mehmed will settle ALL the way to the Copper with this first settler, but hes sees it, so we MUST make that our priority. I suggest whipping the last turn of the LH into a settler, and 2-pop whipping the settler a couple turns later. Yes, that will create a pile of unhappiness, but we are CHA and have a decent cap. After first settler, maybe another boat (to regrow close to cap), then another settler and worker ASAP, chopped (we will still have some whip-anger).

 

[grandad1982]

Got it.

Can play tomorrow.

So settle bronze is definate.

Then a second blockng city.

After that start henge?

Tech masonary> AH(cows)> IW(ironand getting rice cities online)

I don't have time ATM to dotmap. Could someone post one and I'll see what I think?

 

[S.ilver]

Do we... uh... have time to get to Henge? We don't even have a second city yet, and there is no stone. GLH and the Mids are more pressing, as they'll both contribute to our no-cottage economy. AI usually loves building Henge too.

No time for a dotmap right now, as I have to head to lecture soon, but I'll try and do one when I get back.

 

[gigi_muschi]

Well, if we get the Great Lighthouse, we might as well build most of our cities on the coast since we don't get to build cottages.

I think that the next city should be settled at red dot. We get the copper, possibly seal Mehmed from expading in the south if our capitals and second city's cultural borders pop, and the city can be a great production city with all those hills and the copper.

Spoiler :

 

[grandad1982]

I agree about henge. Not keen at all really.

Hi gigi. Welcome on board - sorry for the slow welcome!

Yer GLH trade commerce would be pretty sweet.

Sorry about the rubbish screen shot but it won't post the cropped version. Basically I suggest the black dot. Gigi's is the red. I think black is better as it picks up floods for food to work the hills. Might be 1 off the coast but its only one tile. Other suggestions?

I still have no time till tomrrow pm (GMT) to play so feel free to put up ideas.

What do people think of my tech order? AH> IW?

edit: AH> wheel is another idea as we'll need to hook up bronze

Also I'm thnking settler before lighthouse. Whip settler overflow into lighthouse.

 

[S.ilver]

Settler before lighthouse is probably a wise move, else we're going to have problems with Mehmed breathing down our throats.

I'd much rather keep coastal access while still having the floodplains. Remember, we can't build cottages, so we need to find some other use for the floods. We can farm them, and have out of control population, but I'd rather make them into food neutral workshops once we have enough food to take care of the mines (at least until machinery and watermills).

I'm more keen on the grassland tile with the "c" sign on it. There's only one desert tile in the fat cross, and it grabs the entire floodplain area. That would be my first choice.

Black dot isn't that bad I guess. It would be purely a manufacturing city, but a pretty decent one. I'm not keen on red dot, because it would have some food problems for a while.