Need dependable player(s) for RTW v1.2 beta 3...
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bamf226
King
What is RTW?
VeteranLurker
Warlord
I successfully loaded the v1.2 beta3 version of RTW last evening and played a solo game as Italy from 1936 to early 1939 and it worked fine. Load times are a little slow due to the fact that there are 23-24 countries and everyone is stockpiling units with no warfare to thin things out yet (this is as the developer designed it and obviously how history played out during those years).
There is no 1938-start currently available in the beta. We choose from 1936 or 1939.
Here is the order of play as I understand it from looking at the game setup. This is currently *NOT* subject to change, so it would affect whether/if any of us can run a second country in tandem (i.e., for efficiency, the countries must be in consecutive order of play; there can be AI countries in-between the two countries but no human-run countries in-between).
Germany
Italy
United Kingdom
USSR
France
USA
Poland
Hungary
Norway
Low Countries
Republican Iberia
Baltic States
Turkey
Finland
Yugoslavia
Sweden
Austria
Czechoslovakia
Canada
Ireland
Greece
Romania
Albania
(note: Nationalist Iberia is apparently not playable in multiplayer, but would show up if Historical Events mode is selected)
If we choose Historical Events, I think we need to cap it at six players and go with only the six major powers. In that case, since the USA has nothing to do for so long, I would suggest they be allowed to play a second country of the following: Norway, Low Countries, Canada (?), Yugoslavia (I think they end up with the Allies and are not absorbed), Greece or Ireland (maybe absorbed?). Poland is not useable, because of a possible conflict-of-interest when USSR partitions it. If the USA picks among Norway/LowCountries, then Germany could additionally run Finland or Romania (I think they declare for the Axis and are not annexed; Austria and I think Czechoslovakia are annexed). In Historical Mode, the only two of the major powers who could run a second country without adding inefficiency/confusion to the human order of play are Germany and USA.
However, I now think that Open Play might be more fun in the shorter run. A 1936 Historical Mode start yields almost 90 turns before Germany DOWs Poland (advantages: build infrastructure as you see fit, war arrives on-schedule; disadvantages: looong time with nothing happening, hard-coded alliances, war is chosen for you). A 1936 Open Events start would allow festivities to begin sooner rather than later (an advantage for the impatient; disadvantages: you don't know when war will come or from where, you have no alliances at the start), as one chooses (though obviously everyone also has to build up their infrastructure). Open Play would also allow neutral countries like Sweden, Turkey, and Rep.Spain to be playable.
First things first: I suggest that everyone download the RTW v1.2 beta3 (400MB), install it, and at least start up a game and make sure you can run it. Try out Open Events and Historical Events and 1936-start and 1939-start if you can, so we can all make an informed decision about how to proceed.
There is no 1938-start currently available in the beta. We choose from 1936 or 1939.
Here is the order of play as I understand it from looking at the game setup. This is currently *NOT* subject to change, so it would affect whether/if any of us can run a second country in tandem (i.e., for efficiency, the countries must be in consecutive order of play; there can be AI countries in-between the two countries but no human-run countries in-between).
Germany
Italy
United Kingdom
USSR
France
USA
Poland
Hungary
Norway
Low Countries
Republican Iberia
Baltic States
Turkey
Finland
Yugoslavia
Sweden
Austria
Czechoslovakia
Canada
Ireland
Greece
Romania
Albania
(note: Nationalist Iberia is apparently not playable in multiplayer, but would show up if Historical Events mode is selected)
If we choose Historical Events, I think we need to cap it at six players and go with only the six major powers. In that case, since the USA has nothing to do for so long, I would suggest they be allowed to play a second country of the following: Norway, Low Countries, Canada (?), Yugoslavia (I think they end up with the Allies and are not absorbed), Greece or Ireland (maybe absorbed?). Poland is not useable, because of a possible conflict-of-interest when USSR partitions it. If the USA picks among Norway/LowCountries, then Germany could additionally run Finland or Romania (I think they declare for the Axis and are not annexed; Austria and I think Czechoslovakia are annexed). In Historical Mode, the only two of the major powers who could run a second country without adding inefficiency/confusion to the human order of play are Germany and USA.
However, I now think that Open Play might be more fun in the shorter run. A 1936 Historical Mode start yields almost 90 turns before Germany DOWs Poland (advantages: build infrastructure as you see fit, war arrives on-schedule; disadvantages: looong time with nothing happening, hard-coded alliances, war is chosen for you). A 1936 Open Events start would allow festivities to begin sooner rather than later (an advantage for the impatient; disadvantages: you don't know when war will come or from where, you have no alliances at the start), as one chooses (though obviously everyone also has to build up their infrastructure). Open Play would also allow neutral countries like Sweden, Turkey, and Rep.Spain to be playable.
First things first: I suggest that everyone download the RTW v1.2 beta3 (400MB), install it, and at least start up a game and make sure you can run it. Try out Open Events and Historical Events and 1936-start and 1939-start if you can, so we can all make an informed decision about how to proceed.
VeteranLurker
Warlord
Ah yes... RTW is the "Road To War" WWII scenario shipped with BTS. The developer has since upgraded it, so a download is necessary to get the latest/greatest version. We're currently planning a PBEM game for the European Theatre scenario.
good stuff lurker
i too have downloaded and played v1.2 beta 3 and am chomping at the bit to get going
i concur that "open events" is probably the way to go if we are starting in 36 - adding a bit of spice to the theatre as it were
i might possibly be able to enlist another civer or 2 - will know by later today - hopefully we can blast off in the next day or two
i too have downloaded and played v1.2 beta 3 and am chomping at the bit to get going
i concur that "open events" is probably the way to go if we are starting in 36 - adding a bit of spice to the theatre as it were
i might possibly be able to enlist another civer or 2 - will know by later today - hopefully we can blast off in the next day or two
Karhu
Devil's Advocate
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- Sep 26, 2006
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- 651
I'd be interested in joining in. I have not played RTW, other than to open it up and take a look at the mod (only got BTS a week ago). Nor am I sure if my computer can handle the graphics in the late game, so I'll have to load up the new version and play through a bit to make sure everything works out.
I won't be able to do this loading and testing until Friday at the earliest, and possibly not a full test until Monday. So if you fill up on players in the mean time and are ready to go, then by-all-means go for it.
In agreement with Lurker; a 1936 historic start would not be good for a PBEM. That'd be at least three months of "build up". An Open game would allow for far more diplomacy and strategy. I don't want to "act out" history, I want to rewrite it! But that's just my opinion and I'm not ever sure if i can play yet so....
Also, I assume this game will be conducted in the spirit of PBEM and not PitBoss. I.e., absences for real life allowed (and expected) with given notice? I play PBEM because I love to take my daily turn, hate single player, am incapable of playing a turn in 30 seconds, and sometimes have a life that takes me away from the computer.
Anywho, I'll test things out and see how it goes.
I won't be able to do this loading and testing until Friday at the earliest, and possibly not a full test until Monday. So if you fill up on players in the mean time and are ready to go, then by-all-means go for it.
In agreement with Lurker; a 1936 historic start would not be good for a PBEM. That'd be at least three months of "build up". An Open game would allow for far more diplomacy and strategy. I don't want to "act out" history, I want to rewrite it! But that's just my opinion and I'm not ever sure if i can play yet so....
Also, I assume this game will be conducted in the spirit of PBEM and not PitBoss. I.e., absences for real life allowed (and expected) with given notice? I play PBEM because I love to take my daily turn, hate single player, am incapable of playing a turn in 30 seconds, and sometimes have a life that takes me away from the computer.
Anywho, I'll test things out and see how it goes.
VeteranLurker
Warlord
Karhu, the developer's thread indicates that beta-3 has been out for about 1 month. Dunno the ETA for making it final. Check it out at: http://www.daleszone.com/ (I used the Civfanatics forum link).
Karhu also raises some good general issues. I too am assuming that this is a reasonable/casual PBEM, with absences tolerated as long as advance notice is given. What likely won't be tolerated are people vanishing without a trace. To that end, does the game admin need to collect passwords in order to replace people if they drop out? The only other PBEM drops I've dealt with are folks who bail with alt-Q, whose country is then run by the AI (and can then be replaced). Also, my assumption is that we'll do approx one turn per day.
To that end, I will need to collect everyone's email addresses in order to start the game. You can PM that to me if you don't want to list it here. I will set up the game once we are in agreement on the parameters and have finalized who is playing.
Also, in addition to the decision about 1936/1939, open/historical, can everyone let us know what timezone you are in? Also, if you could give a heads-up on what time of day you are most-likely to take your turn, that might help. If everyone is in North America and does their turn in the evening, then we should be fine, but if not then we might want to juggle who has what country to come up with a reasonable order of play.
Lastly, re 1936 vs 1939, a 1936-start would be approx. 384 turns (ends in 1951) and a 1939-start would be approx. 312 turns (remember: your infrastructure may already be built, whether you like it or not). If you don't think you can handle that, now is the time to say so.
BTW, I am in Michigan (EDT), GMT-5 I believe. I am mostly likely to play in the evening (9:00pm-12:00midn).
Karhu also raises some good general issues. I too am assuming that this is a reasonable/casual PBEM, with absences tolerated as long as advance notice is given. What likely won't be tolerated are people vanishing without a trace. To that end, does the game admin need to collect passwords in order to replace people if they drop out? The only other PBEM drops I've dealt with are folks who bail with alt-Q, whose country is then run by the AI (and can then be replaced). Also, my assumption is that we'll do approx one turn per day.
To that end, I will need to collect everyone's email addresses in order to start the game. You can PM that to me if you don't want to list it here. I will set up the game once we are in agreement on the parameters and have finalized who is playing.
Also, in addition to the decision about 1936/1939, open/historical, can everyone let us know what timezone you are in? Also, if you could give a heads-up on what time of day you are most-likely to take your turn, that might help. If everyone is in North America and does their turn in the evening, then we should be fine, but if not then we might want to juggle who has what country to come up with a reasonable order of play.
Lastly, re 1936 vs 1939, a 1936-start would be approx. 384 turns (ends in 1951) and a 1939-start would be approx. 312 turns (remember: your infrastructure may already be built, whether you like it or not). If you don't think you can handle that, now is the time to say so.
BTW, I am in Michigan (EDT), GMT-5 I believe. I am mostly likely to play in the evening (9:00pm-12:00midn).
VeteranLurker
Warlord
Also, Karhu, go ahead with your testing since the rest of us all need to do the same anyway.
VeteranLurker
Warlord
BTW, to all, the updated version of RTW is *NOT* like the store version -- Dale has added quite a bit of functionality (bombardment, new air missions, etc.) as well as some unique units and unit-tweaks (e.g., subs more effective against capital ships). And v1.2 has approx twice as many countries as the add-on released last fall, in addition to tweaks/fixes. And no, I am not a paid spokesperson!
VeteranLurker
Warlord
OK. Hopefully Germany wants to take on Finland to balance things.
Upon further review, I'm going to suggest we go with Open Events unless someone has serious problems with it. I tried it last night, and as mentioned elsewhere it will simply allow everyone to start warmongering/negotiating whenever they want, which should reduce any threat of boredom. Open also allows more than 6 players, though 8-9 is probably the functional max (Sweden, Turkey, Spain).
If we do Open Events, I am leaning slightly toward the 1939 start since it will end the game in fewer turns. Folks will have larger armies at the start, as will the neutral countries. Infrastructure is not as built up as it was in an earlier version, so if that is a concern then 1936 is what we'll want.
Regardless, I urge everyone to get the download and try it out -- if you cannot run it, we need to know now.
Also, I need email addresses for Krokodil and Dwhee (and Karhu, once he confirms playability) -- please PM them to me at your convenience.
GMTs and likely playing-times would also be appreciated. Why? Example: say Germany and France can only play in the evening, but Italy and USA can only play in the morning. Germany does their turn in the evening and sends it to Italy, who cannot play it until the following morning. Italy then sends it on to others, and it gets to France who plays it that evening. It then goes on to USA for play in the morning, back to Germany for play in the evening. That is at least two days to get through one round of play. However, perhaps some countries can switch ownership to streamline things. Again, it likely won't be an issue if we are all in close proximity and can play in the evenings, but it is best to know it now.
Upon further review, I'm going to suggest we go with Open Events unless someone has serious problems with it. I tried it last night, and as mentioned elsewhere it will simply allow everyone to start warmongering/negotiating whenever they want, which should reduce any threat of boredom. Open also allows more than 6 players, though 8-9 is probably the functional max (Sweden, Turkey, Spain).
If we do Open Events, I am leaning slightly toward the 1939 start since it will end the game in fewer turns. Folks will have larger armies at the start, as will the neutral countries. Infrastructure is not as built up as it was in an earlier version, so if that is a concern then 1936 is what we'll want.
Regardless, I urge everyone to get the download and try it out -- if you cannot run it, we need to know now.
Also, I need email addresses for Krokodil and Dwhee (and Karhu, once he confirms playability) -- please PM them to me at your convenience.
GMTs and likely playing-times would also be appreciated. Why? Example: say Germany and France can only play in the evening, but Italy and USA can only play in the morning. Germany does their turn in the evening and sends it to Italy, who cannot play it until the following morning. Italy then sends it on to others, and it gets to France who plays it that evening. It then goes on to USA for play in the morning, back to Germany for play in the evening. That is at least two days to get through one round of play. However, perhaps some countries can switch ownership to streamline things. Again, it likely won't be an issue if we are all in close proximity and can play in the evenings, but it is best to know it now.
Agreed Lurker (w/open and 1939) as pbem can test the patience, especially if there is nothing to do for many turns other than build
My buds and I are all in your time zone - so the only ? is to where the other 2 are located(assuming they are still game) - I will only be able to make turns in the evenings during the week - on weedends it will vary but most likely will be able to get at least a turn in a day
If for some reason one of the other players drop before we start - I'm sure Lutar and Taint will upgrade their starting Civ - with you getting 1st dibs if so desired
As for game flow, 1 turn per day would be something to shoot for - if someone is not able to make a play for a day or two, just post so we know
My buds and I are all in your time zone - so the only ? is to where the other 2 are located(assuming they are still game) - I will only be able to make turns in the evenings during the week - on weedends it will vary but most likely will be able to get at least a turn in a day
If for some reason one of the other players drop before we start - I'm sure Lutar and Taint will upgrade their starting Civ - with you getting 1st dibs if so desired
As for game flow, 1 turn per day would be something to shoot for - if someone is not able to make a play for a day or two, just post so we know
VeteranLurker
Warlord
Sorry to hear it, Karhu. If you discover that it will work after all, let us know.
VeteranLurker
Warlord
Latest re 1936/1939 -- was just trolling through the developer's threads and noticed references to the scenario AI being designed/optimized for a 1936 start. This apparently refers to building up an army and being ready to use it 3 years later. It was in reference to players who used a 1939 start and wondered why not much happened right away. This may not be such an issue for us, since the major powers will be human-controlled, but I wanted to mention it.
P.S. I PMed the other players who expressed interest, and am waiting to hear back.
P.S. I PMed the other players who expressed interest, and am waiting to hear back.
Here's my personal experience:
I tried playing as Germany with a 1939 start. In the version I played (I'm not sure if it's still like this) many countries/factions were simplified, like the East and West Balkans. Also, it seemed like whenever war was declared I overran cities very quickly, as my opponents had barely enough time to build all of the factories and churn out a few artillery units. It was on Prince though.
My experience was much better playing as the USSR on Monarch with the 1936 start. Finland used a real army, and taking Helsinki was actually a bit of a challenge. I wiped them out before the second winter war, but it was much more interesting.
Starting in 1936 will just mean more time to build specialized armies, and likely won't impact the overall length of the game that much since those turns will likely be the shortest. Some players, namely America, might want to take control of another faction (Canada, Norway) or just be bot-controlled for the first portion of the game. Also, isn't Canada only available with the 1936 start? or am I using an obsolete version?
I tried playing as Germany with a 1939 start. In the version I played (I'm not sure if it's still like this) many countries/factions were simplified, like the East and West Balkans. Also, it seemed like whenever war was declared I overran cities very quickly, as my opponents had barely enough time to build all of the factories and churn out a few artillery units. It was on Prince though.
My experience was much better playing as the USSR on Monarch with the 1936 start. Finland used a real army, and taking Helsinki was actually a bit of a challenge. I wiped them out before the second winter war, but it was much more interesting.
Starting in 1936 will just mean more time to build specialized armies, and likely won't impact the overall length of the game that much since those turns will likely be the shortest. Some players, namely America, might want to take control of another faction (Canada, Norway) or just be bot-controlled for the first portion of the game. Also, isn't Canada only available with the 1936 start? or am I using an obsolete version?
VeteranLurker
Warlord
Dwhee, refer to thread #8 above to get the most recent version (v1.2 beta3). Yes, if you are seeing West Balkans, you are using an earlier version. My games with the newest version have beefed-up armies for the AI countries.
The USA plans to take Norway, though it isn't as much of an issue in Open Play as the USA can get involved whenever they want. As Germany, do you want to run Finland in order to balance things? If we have to go with historical events this would also work best.
The USA plans to take Norway, though it isn't as much of an issue in Open Play as the USA can get involved whenever they want. As Germany, do you want to run Finland in order to balance things? If we have to go with historical events this would also work best.
Thanks for the correction. On the latest version, the 1939 start has all the normal features. I still say there wouldn't be that great of a disadvantage in doing 1936, since the AI would likely be better (not that it matters much) and I imagine it gives the player the ability to specialize their army a bit more. In 1939 start I just started with a whole bunch more units and 0 infrastructure.
If I don't have a single factory, then where did my army come from?
EDIT: In addition, I'm personally going to vote for historical events mode, or random historical events if that's available. Open play is appealing, but playing as Germany it's hard to understand what the "objective" is in an open play multiplayer game. I've never played it, but I always thought open play was a sort of sandbox mode for trying out different historical scenarios. I'm also pretty sure the mod is balanced such that the Axis/Allied powers have equal chances of winning, and since we have players representing all the major factions I think we should take advantage of that.
If I don't have a single factory, then where did my army come from?
EDIT: In addition, I'm personally going to vote for historical events mode, or random historical events if that's available. Open play is appealing, but playing as Germany it's hard to understand what the "objective" is in an open play multiplayer game. I've never played it, but I always thought open play was a sort of sandbox mode for trying out different historical scenarios. I'm also pretty sure the mod is balanced such that the Axis/Allied powers have equal chances of winning, and since we have players representing all the major factions I think we should take advantage of that.
VeteranLurker
Warlord
Yeah, no factory infrastructure for any country I've tried, either 1936 or 1939. An earlier-version 1938-start did have some infrastructure, but no room for expansion, so I guess this is the compromise.
Has everyone tried both Modes? I am having trouble loading save games, rather I get a CTD after a certain point whenever I hit next-turn. No info in the development thread.
For Open Mode we can do without the pairing of USA with Norway and Germany with Finland, but for Historical Mode I think we need it for balance and playability (especially for USA).
So what do you say? Historical or Open? I can hopefully start it up and send it out tonight.
Has everyone tried both Modes? I am having trouble loading save games, rather I get a CTD after a certain point whenever I hit next-turn. No info in the development thread.
For Open Mode we can do without the pairing of USA with Norway and Germany with Finland, but for Historical Mode I think we need it for balance and playability (especially for USA).
So what do you say? Historical or Open? I can hopefully start it up and send it out tonight.
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