need help

[Willem]

Does this amount of units work in border cities as well?

Personally I don't think that's a good recommendation at all. The AI is going to walk all over you with that number of units for defence. It's not nearly enough and doesn't cover all the bases. You need at least one Spearman/Pikeman to counter any horse units a Civ might bring along or at the very least to destroy any that are happily pillaging your lands.

And he has no Bombard units at all in his lists. That's very important to have for a city's defence. If a big stack of enemy units comes by and parks itself right next to your city, you can severely blunt it's attack by going after it first and damaging a number of units with collateral damage. Also, if he/she has Catapults etc. and starts whiddling down your own defenders with them, your own Catapults are going to be immune to that damage and be at full strength when that Axemen etc. finally makes it's attack. I've lost a number of cities simply because I just didn't have enough bombard units inside of them. IMO, you can never have enough of those as they tend to die very quickly..

And he has no horse units! With the Flanking trait in BtS, one of the best ways to thin down a stack that has a lot of bombard units is to attack it with horse units. Having a couple of of them in each border city can go a long way to keeping your defences from being bombarded to almost nothing, and also provides you with a very mobile unit that can quickly reinforce neighbouring cities that might need some additional help.

His recommendation isn't even good for your interior cites, it's overkill for those. Two units each for those, of any kind, is more than enough. You only need to defend your border cities, your interior ones are pretty secure unless your perimeter falls. I've read a number posts where people mention that they don't even bother using upgraded units for their interior, they'll still have Longbowman in them when Tanks are out on the battlefield.

Also, I am trying to decide which trait is better: imp, agg, char, prot. Bottom line is I want to use a fin civ but I want a good army also.

It depends on what you want to do with your army, go on the offensive or just protect your own territory? I wouldn't bother with Imperialistic if you're concerned about your army though, it doesn't really do much for it overall. It's nice getting the extra Great Generals but they're not really going to have that big of an impact on your military campaigns. Charismatic is better but the two best are Aggressive and Protective, depending on your focus. Or you could just play the Japaneses and have both.

 

[UnlockPotential]

Try Tokugawa, great for military.

I use:

2 archers, 1 Axe and 1 Spear

1 Long, 1 Cross and 3 Mace

3 Rifle, 2 Grenadier

6 Infantary

 

[bkrice]

OK. I'm going to fess up. I've been avoiding cottages for a long time, well ever since Isabella showed up with massive stacks and pillaged away. Now that was one of my very first games, but it left a bad taste. I decided, since reading the forums, to try the se even despite the warnings that I needed to be more experienced. I understand the basic concept of the se, but I can't get a size 40+ city. I decided to go back and cottage every thing, but I want to have the AI scared to death of me. Is the ce good without the fin trait? If it is Tokugawa seems pretty strong militarily, especially with 2 certain civics (for a time). Otherwise I was thinking about Wang Kon(fin, pro, and his UB), Ragnar(fin, agg), or either one of the English ladies. BTW I had XBOX but sold it to get my kids a Wii. Thanks for the help and taking time to answer my Civ pre-school type questions.

 

[Sisiutil]

You don't need to get to a size 40+ city to run a SE! I rarely have cities that big, and for most of the game, that's way beyond your health and happiness caps anyway. The idea of the SE is to have enough of a food surplus in most of your cities so you can run specialists to provide your research.

As for the CE, it does work for non-financial civs. The key concept here is city specialization. The terrain and resources around some cities will better lend themselves to cottages. I myself prefer to put cottages on riverside grassland and flood plains; those tiles have enough food to support the citizen working the cottage, and the +1 commerce from the river is like having the cottage upgraded to a hamlet immediately. So I look for rivers for cottages, and if there are commerce rich resources like gold, silver, gems, spices, or dye nearby, so much the better. Ideally you want to expand beyond these areas so that your core commerce cities are safe from pillaging.

Now if you want to put the fear of god into the AI, try playing as Rome and leveraging Praetorians.

 

[Willem]

Try Tokugawa, great for military.

I use:

2 archers, 1 Axe and 1 Spear

1 Long, 1 Cross and 3 Mace

3 Rifle, 2 Grenadier

6 Infantary

Still not enough. I've had civs attack me with half a dozen bombard units in their stack. That would make short work of your defences, leaving your units easy pickings for the AI's assault units. And still no Horse Archers or Knights etc. to flank the enemy's bombard units. And why no Machine Guns? They're excellent defence units, immune to collateral damage and a bonus against Gunpowder units. They're much better at defence than Infantry.

 

[Gwynnja]

Also, I am trying to decide which trait is better: imp, agg, char, prot. Bottom line is I want to use a fin civ but I want a good army also.

Even the best players don't always agree on this. there's a lot that goes into "which trait [combination] is better" besides just the traits including but not limited to UU, map, rival civs, game level, etc. The four trait combinations you mentioned end up being Queen Victoria of England, Ragnar the Viking, Hannibal of Carthage, and Wang of Korea. IMO Wang is the poorest warmonger of the bunch but the other three are fantastic but different.

 

[bkrice]

Well, It's not that I want to be a Warmonger so to speak. I just want to wave the capability to do so if the need arises, offensive or defensive. My main goal is to be able to keep up a very large tech rate and not worry about how I am going to survive a war if one arises.

 

[Willem]

Well, It's not that I want to be a Warmonger so to speak. I just want to wave the capability to do so if the need arises, offensive or defensive. My main goal is to be able to keep up a very large tech rate and not worry about how I am going to survive a war if one arises.

Any trait will do there, you don't necessarily need a military one. The main thing is just to build enough troops and Barracks. Even Ghandi can be an effective military power if you manage your empire properly.

 

[Feanor01]

bkrice, this depends on how many border cities and who your neighbors are. Usually I will put a catapolt or two and an extra offensive unit in a border city just to deal wiht any pesky attack or counter attack. However, if you are running pacifism, you need to be careful with the total number of soilders used! It can quickly add up. If you have horses, a stack of central knights/calvary are probably more useful because you can respond to problems quickly no matter where they are!

As far as traits, finacial would do you best. The extra commerce can go to gold production to support your army and research to boost your tech lead!

As far as the dawgs: undergrad at Mizzou, masters as Wisconsin, PhD at Georgia, so not a true dawg fan. After three universities and five cities (St. Louis and Charleston, SC) it is a bit hard to get behind a single school. Go Pack, Go! (Missus is from Milwaukee and a huge Brett Farve fan).

 

[UnlockPotential]

Still not enough. I've had civs attack me with half a dozen bombard units in their stack. That would make short work of your defences, leaving your units easy pickings for the AI's assault units. And still no Horse Archers or Knights etc. to flank the enemy's bombard units. And why no Machine Guns? They're excellent defence units, immune to collateral damage and a bonus against Gunpowder units. They're much better at defence than Infantry.

I usually have 3/4 units dotted around the border and around cities, 3/4 each city and beside where the Ai usually attack.

Often have some Machine Guns in the border cities

 

[bkrice]

Any trait will do there, you don't necessarily need a military one. The main thing is just to build enough troops and Barracks. Even Ghandi can be an effective military power if you manage your empire properly.

That is what I was wondering. If it is possible to field a powerful army without some of the warmonger traits then it seems to me that some of the other traits are better namely fin, org, or exp. I know i am all over the road with my questions, but I work by myself and I do a lot of brainstorming. Wife says I'm obsessed. I'm still trying to figure out how to expand at the pace of the AI though. It seems they always beat me to the prime spots. Again, thanks for taking time to answer my questions and give me ideas.

 

[Sisiutil]

I'm still trying to figure out how to expand at the pace of the AI though.

Don't. The AI leverages its advantages on the higher levels to expand at a pace that would cripple a human player. Plan instead on building a military force to pry those prime spots away from them. It's nice of them to save you a few Settlers, isn't it? And Workers, and wonders...

 

[Rain]

You should also consider your diplomatic options. You can get by with a lot less military by making more friends with specific ai's.

In my opinion war is something you are generally better off avoiding unless you start it on your terms and then the shorter the better. In the latter case you dont need units scattered throughout your cities - most of troops should be in your attack stack which when not needed for war should be stationed in such a way to readily counter any incursions. A good road/rail network facilitates that as well. If you have played your diplomatic options properly you shouldnt need to be guarding several directions simultanaeously.

If you have several aggressive neighbours then somewhere along the way you didnt manage relations correctly. Just as you can't achieve everything faster than the ai - generally speaking you can't keep all of them happy either and its important to be careful in who you cultivate a good relationship with and who you offend.

 

[bkrice]

Don't. The AI leverages its advantages on the higher levels to expand at a pace that would cripple a human player. Plan instead on building a military force to pry those prime spots away from them. It's nice of them to save you a few Settlers, isn't it? And Workers, and wonders...

In other words build 4-5 cities and take the rest?

 

[bkrice]

Diplomatic relations? I guess it's just me, but I feel like I come out on the short end when I trade techs and just help the AI keep up. I know there is a sound strategy for this I just don't understand that yet. Also, What does the 100% bonus some units get vs other units mean exactly (spearman vs mounted) for eg? In other words how many horse archers could 1 spearman defend against, excluding promotions. I only ask so I could get an estimate of how many of these types of specific counter units to have in my stacks. Don't need 20 if 2 would do. Thanks

 

[Gwynnja]

Diplomatic relations? I guess it's just me, but I feel like I come out on the short end when I trade techs and just help the AI keep up. I know there is a sound strategy for this I just don't understand that yet. Also, What does the 100% bonus some units get vs other units mean exactly (spearman vs mounted) for eg? In other words how many horse archers could 1 spearman defend against, excluding promotions. I only ask so I could get an estimate of how many of these types of specific counter units to have in my stacks. Don't need 20 if 2 would do. Thanks

A. Re: diplomacy. You are going to get the short end of the stick in diplomacy. Think of it as buying your friends. That doesn't mean you can't make prudent trades. One of my favorite strategies is to trade around new techs. For the sake of example I'll use philosophy. You found taoism and know that you're the only one with your new tech. You can then trade it to wang for paper, to shaka for engineering, to someone else for guilds, etc. If you trade it to everyone, you can get a buttload of techs even if the individual ai's are getting a better beaker for beaker deal.
B. Re: 100% bonus. A spearman has a base strength of 4, so if he's going up against a mounted unit his strength is 8. There are plenty of other factors that weigh in on individual battles. If you're using your spearman to protect your axes from chariots, you don't need a lot. If your opponent is trying to send a chariot rush at you, you might need a few more, especially if he's sending axes with the chariots.

 

[Sisiutil]

In other words build 4-5 cities and take the rest?

More or less. Sometimes I start attacking when I only have 2 or 3 cities founded. With the Incas, I'll take on my first opponent with only 1 city!

Diplomatic relations? I guess it's just me, but I feel like I come out on the short end when I trade techs and just help the AI keep up. I know there is a sound strategy for this I just don't understand that yet.

A crash course on tech trading strategy:

• Each tech has a "research score". Hover the mouse over it to find out what it is. Make sure you're getting something close in value from the AI.
• Be aware that the AI will almost never trade for a tech of equal value to the one it's offering; it always wants to get the better end of the bargain.
• The above point makes Currency a very important tech, as it will allow you to "top up" some of those unbalanced tech trades with cash. Ditto for Paper so you can throw world maps into the negotiations.
• Don't trade for a tech just because it's on offer. I tend to avoid grabbing Theology for a long time in most games, ditto for Divine Right. Let the AI spend its research on a tech that's of questionable value while you bee-line so something that will give you a strategic advantage. I personally love it when I'm pursuing the tech leader and see that he's wasted several turns researching the dead-end DR tech.
• Corallary to the above: Don't trade away a tech just because you have it. I am very reluctant to part with Philosophy until I have Paper, Paper until I have Education, Education until I have Liberalism, and Liberalism until I have Communism--basically, if a tech gives me an advantage for obtaining a "prize tech" (free tech or GP), I'll hang on to it, even if I lose out on a couple of tech trades.
• The AI devalues partially-researched techs. This might be why it sometimes refuses to trade, say, Feudalism for Philosophy even though Philo is more "expensive". You can use this to your advantage. For example, if you want to trade Aesthetics for Monarchy (same value), research Monarchy for a few turns. You'll eventually find the AI is willing to trade it to you.
• The AI elevates the value of military techs; thus, techs like Feudalism, Gunpowder, Rifling, etc. tend to require a lot more generosity on your part. On the other hand, if you have those techs to trade, you can often get a sweet deal.
• Don't trade away a wonder-enabling tech immediately if you're building the wonder, and don't trade away a military tech to an enemy. Duh.
• Research what the AI doesn't and then trade those techs away to obtain its favourite techs. Good tech targets for trading because the AI often avoids researching them for a long time include Aesthetics, Alphabet, Metal Casting, Education, and Steel.
• Code of Laws, Philosophy, Divine Right, Liberalism, Physics, Economics, and Fascism are also good trading tech targets because they're "sour grapes" techs: once the AI knows someone else has researched it first and won the "prize" (founded a religion/obtained the free tech or GP), it tends to avoid researching the tech on its own. So even if you get beaten to these techs yourself, they're worth obtaining so you can trade them away (assuming you haven't turned tech brokering off).

Also, What does the 100% bonus some units get vs other units mean exactly (spearman vs mounted) for eg? In other words how many horse archers could 1 spearman defend against, excluding promotions. I only ask so I could get an estimate of how many of these types of specific counter units to have in my stacks. Don't need 20 if 2 would do. Thanks

Exactly. A couple of spearmen are usually adequate for holding off many mounted units. It isn't just that they'll win battles--the AI will usually be reluctant to attack because the odds are so bad, and it will lose several units in its attempt to overwhelm and kill a couple of yours.

I generally find that an anti-mounted unit (Spearman, Pikeman, Rifleman) can absorb anywhere from 3-6 contemporary mounted unit attacks (Horse Archer, Knight, and Cavalry, respectively) before succumbing. Defensive bonuses obviously have a hand in this, as does the AI's use (or not) of siege weapons. And if the units are mismatched (Spearman vs. Chariot, for example, or Rifleman vs. Knight or even Cuirassier), then my guy can often hold out until doomsday.

I like to give these units Combat I and II and then Formation (the anti-mounted promotion) to enhance their innate ability. The AI will often not even attempt to attack a Combat II/Formation anti-mounted unit because the odds are so bad.

 

[bkrice]

I've just tried a game running the CE. I don't like it. The se just seems better to me. I like being free from the science slider so I can divert commerce to the other areas, especially in wartime. But having just played on the entry levels I have always gotten the mids and the GL. Are these all important to the se? sisiutil(can't type capitol s for some reason) already assured me that I don't need a mega size city, but what about the others? And is the philo trait as important as it seems? I've read most of the guides but they say different things. some say you don't need the mids another say punt if you don't (Wodan). What do ya'll think.

 

[Sisiutil]

Of course you can run a SE without the Pyramids, but it's a tougher row to hoe. The whole idea of building the 'mids, of course, is early Representation and its +3 per specialist (as well as the elevated happy cap in your 5 biggest cities, which in turn allows you to run more specialists).

One of the key differences I find the Pyramids/early Rep make is I can run more merchants. Each merchant under Representation supplies not only 3 but also 3 . The extra income allows me to do things like run the science slider higher, earn gold for unit upgrades or for a brief foray into Universal Suffrage, and so on. Without the 'mids/early Rep, I have to run more scientists, since they're the only ones supplying (well, spies do too, but only 1 each to a scientist's 3 ). I also don't have as much gold coming in, so I may need to run more of a hybrid economy, with at least a couple more cottaged cities besides the capital.

Philo is a huge bonus for a SE, of course, but there are other ways to approximate it. The National Epic grants the equivalent of the Philo trait to one city, for example. Pacifism makes all cities with your state religion "Philosophical", if you will. The Parthenon, of course, makes you 1/2 Philosophical until Chemistry, and the Museum of Maussollos helps, too, by extending golden ages and their enhanced GP production.

 

[bkrice]

I notice how everybody talks about cottaging the capitol for the bureaucracy bonus but I can't ever seem to find a place better than my capitol to be the super science city. My capitol always has plenty of surplus food and enough production for the key buildings( GL, Oxford). Is this the wrong strategy? Do I need to try to make the ssc in another location and wait ages for the key wonders? Also what is the best thing to do with the plains tile? Thanks.