Need help

I did not settle so close to my capitol. I took the Oasis with the pigs. Video was taking a long time to process, so it may be a while.

And on my home network, I cannot see screenshot from image sharing sites, nor use said sites
 
@lymond I took quite a different approach...

t58, Shaka down! Monty's next on the chopping block. Chariots are fun on prince :)

Just finished teching math, alpha's next. Will probably get fishing, masonry, myst, IW on the cheap this way.

Spoiler :


Next turn Petersburg 2-pop whips a settler overflowing to finish a chariot.


Spoiler :


Newly conquered "lands".
 
I did not settle so close to my capitol. I took the Oasis with the pigs. Video was taking a long time to process, so it may be a while.

And on my home network, I cannot see screenshot from image sharing sites, nor use said sites

That's a shame. Why is imgur blocked? Your parents seem somewhat unreasonable in this regard.

Anyways - images are attached below, then.
Spoiler :

Screenshot (9764).png
Screenshot (9765).png

 
Last edited:
UD - yep, chariot rushing Sir Shaka definitely the way to go here. I was just thinking about playing a few turns and settling some spots. Did think St. Petes location odd though. 1E of gold seemed ideal for instant trade routes and tile sharing..less turns on road. And that city has to deal with hella unhealth..although not a major factor.

Rome, sorry imageshare is blocked. I'll see if I can attach the image directly..I never do that so I have to figure it out.

Spoiler hmmm :
turn 500000.JPG


Rome, 1E of gold is a perfect spot for the first city...settling close to your capital makes sense for many reason, but first of foremost "tilesharing", especially that gold tile, which you want to work as much as possible, and later for cottage growing for the capital.

(hmm..attaching and linking image was actually not hard at all..just hate to use the site's server space)

edit: And it is fine you want to do some video, but honestly not that big a deal for us. Posting saves and screenies is the best way to go for fast advice from us.
 
Last edited:
haha...spoilers for the pics, UD! You are crashing my machine.

yep, chariot rushing Sir Shaka definitely the way to go here. I was just thinking about playing a few turns and settling some spots. Did think St. Petes location odd though. 1E of gold seemed ideal for instant trade routes and tile sharing..less turns on road. And that city has to deal with hella unhealth..although not a major factor.

Rome, sorry imageshare is block. I'll see if I can attach the image directly..I never do that so I have to figure it out.

Spoiler hmmm :


Rome, 1E of gold is a perfect spot for the first city...settling close to your capital makes sense for many reason, but first of foremost "tilesharing", especially that gold tile, which you want to work as much as possible, and later for cottage growing for the capital.

(hmm..attaching and linking image was actually not hard at all..just hate to use the site's server space)

Oops, fixed.

I guess I just have an unusual love for oases, then. Also wanted to squeeze one more riverside cottage by not settling on the grass tile. Stupid reasons (I only realized :yuck: was gonna be a problem when the city started emitting a fishy smell at 2 pop) but ah this is prince so we can afford to be just a lil irrational. Also, the road has a 2nd purpose: get chariots to Shaka 1 turn quicker. That way I was coincidentally able to catch his settler in transit before his 3rd city was founded.

(What's with this guy, fish and now oases?)
 
I smelled that fish all the way over here :lol: ...3000 miles to the East
 
I smelled that fish all the way over here :lol: ...3000 miles to the East

YES the gag is catching on! :lol:

On a more serious note...where's your next settler going to go? This map might be a tad bit bad for learning because there are just not really any good settles besides pig, sheep, and corn+gold north...
 
So I'd already played a good amount of turns before I posted this. I settled Petersburg one tile southeast of where undefeatable did, to share the gold but not be too close. It still has the Oasis.

I hadn't considered rushing Zulu. I'll have to road those horses asap and work on that. Is it generally beneficial to rush the AI?
 
I hadn't considered rushing Zulu. I'll have to road those horses asap and work on that. Is it generally beneficial to rush the AI?
Taking out one of your rivals and claiming their land for yourself? Yes, that's generally a good thing. Do be careful with overextending yourself, though. Rushes usually leave you in a bad spot economically, and if you're unable to recover in time it could easily cost you the game.
 
to share the gold but not be too close.

this is really a concept you need to rid yourself of with Civ IV. I think this may be a leftover from playing V where you space cities out more and city distance maintenance is not as much of an issue. If I recall it is the city themselves and population that incurs costs in V. (Plus there is no Slavery in V..you want the pop and tiles in that game cause pop is simply science..woohoo)

In IV, early population is far less important in the sense that you are not thinking about growing large cities and working all the tiles in the BFC (Big Fat Cross) for a good portion of the game. You are more concerned about working improved specials (food mainly, strats or gold/gems) and whipping the rest for production.

1E of Gold was absolutely the best spot for the first city and if you want to learn, I encourage you to start thinking about settling more compact empires. How you settle a city is very important.

Capitals, if appropriate land, are generally tailored for Bureaucracy civic with lots of cottages. Overlapping the cap helps grow cottages for it by tile swapping at certain points..like when whipping citizens.

I hadn't considered rushing Zulu. I'll have to road those horses asap and work on that. Is it generally beneficial to rush the AI?

There are two main reason why Shaka is a good target in this game:

1) His proximity to you and the lack of decent city spots in the vicinity makes him a nice early target simply just to get one or two good cities via conquests, including his capital. (starting caps for humans and AI on standard mapscripts are scripted for decent resources, although like we saw in your last game with that plains cow only that it does not always work out that way..but usually it does)

2) Shaka is what we affectionately term a psycho in this game. There are a few of them including Monty, Nappy, Genghis Khan't, Alexander, and Ragnar. These Leaders are coded for high unitprob (probability to build units) as well as just overall aggressiveness. Note: Shaka, Nappy, Rags, and Mehmed have the highest unitprobs but the others mentioned above are right behind - Mehmed is more a warmonger type but I not a psycho (Diplomacy is very important in this game and understand how the leaders are different)

If you have an opportunity to take out one of these guys early if in close proximity to you it is a good idea. Ofc, doing so on much higher levels becomes more difficult, but on Prince it should be easy with chariots.

So in this case, you check the box on both reasons to attack Shaka.

Early rush usually consists of settling no more than 1 other city initially, often just to nab the strat resource which in this case you already have and then pumping the units. So basically the early attack is in lieu of those extra couple of early cities via settlers, but rather via conquest. Then you go about your merry way.

edit: And lastly, there is absolutely no harm in starting the game over while you learn. Actually encouraged really as you try to grasp and practice these new concepts.


where's your next settler going to go? This map might be a tad bit bad for learning because there are just not really any good settles besides pig, sheep, and corn+gold north...

ha..honestly hadn't really thought much about it at that point as i'd only planned on playing those few turns.
 
Last edited:
I see. So when the cities are big, how do they fare being close together? It seems like you should basically just feed your capitol. At what point should I slow down the whipping?

Also, could someone post a quick explanation of how combat actually works? I know it's logarithmic or whatever, where 2 more strength is far better than 1 more. But anything specific I should know?
 
Last edited:
I see. So when the cities are big, how do they far being close together?

Well, you have to ask yourself how long the game is going to be and what type of victory. For perspective, hypothetically on a Prince level Pangaea game you could go for conquest or domination with chariots/horse archers and likely finish the game in the BCs are early ADs. There are 24 tiles in a city's BFC of which you probably use no more than 5 or 6 tiles in that whole game if even, you'll be working the strong tiles and whipping units.

Conversely, if going for Space on Prince you are looking at a much longer game, so at some points cities will indeed grow larger after initial whipping phases or later whipping for later wars. With a good performance you are looking at probably a circa 1700AD or later victory (unless you are a master..ha). But even then, you will likely not utilize all of those 24 tiles in a city and keep in mind that specialists are important too. You will use citizens for that as well.

But going back to this game, look at Moscow and St. Pete's. Pete's 1E of Gold is still an excellent city. It has pigs and 1 or 2 exclusive floodplains, and the stone. More than enough for that city for a long time. But it can also share the gold to at times to keep that working early (the bonus commerce from that gold is huge for speeding research or banking gold early on), and it can help grow some cottages for Moscow. So one city whips and the other takes some of the good tiles while that city grows back..

It seems like you should basically just feed your capitol.

Capitals are very important. Like I said - Bureaucracy civic. But I should make one thing clear - not all starting caps are ideal for Bureaucracy. With Bureau caps, you think cottages and for cottages you think riverside grassland or floodplains. Moscow is certainly suited. The Palace can be moved if a more suitable spot presents itself. On Prince this is less important as you may run the map before Bureau really becomes a factor, but it is on higher levels so the concept is worth grasping.

But, to point, well "feeding" is not the right term really. (It is in Civ V with caravans/cargo ships). I term them helper cities. Helping to growing cottages. I've settled less optimal cities nearby the cap in cases just primarily to grow cottages. But I would not call Pete's a helper city as much, even though it can share tiles, because Pete's is a very good city in its on right and will be highly productive for you despite the fact that it can help out Moscow a lot over time.


At what point should I slow down the whipping?

First, I would note that I'm glad that you are starting to use slavery now, but we are a bit blind to how you are using it. Regardless, there really is no definable point to slow down whipping in the sense I think you mean it. It really depends on what you are trying to do. Early on you are going to whip some settlers or workers to expand, or in another case you might whip ..say..some axes for conquest. You also need time to let whip anger wear off. It is a balancing game that you will get a feel for. What you should not do is whip things like warriors or whatever. And don't just whip for the sake of whipping. It is done with purpose.

We can go over this in more detail as we see more of your games.

I will post a link to a post I made some time ago with a few basic primers on whipping - more to understand some timings, mechanics and maximizing whip overflow. It's a link to a post with embedded links to several like discussions I had:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/going-from-noble-tooo.468987/#post-11671673

Also, could someone post a quick explanation of how combat actually works? I know it's logarithmic or whatever, where 2 more strength is far better than 1 more. But anything specific I should know?

1) Except to lose units and don't get overly caught up in the odds
2) Note terrain bonuses and the city defense bonuses (walls, culture) which play into the odds when you attack or when your own units defend.
3) Some units get bonuses on other types of units. For example, chariots destroy Axes on the offense. Spears really like horses. Axes have bonus against other melee units. Some unique units have specific target bonuses like Persian Immortals against Archery units.
4) Early rush is basically about building one unit type en masse based on what strat resource you have immediately available and taking a nearby capital or the AI completely. Chariots are pretty nice on lower levels due to their speed. Axes on the other hand are stronger. (Note what units the AI has available to them though before attacking) ...and note that by early rush we mean very early ..like no more than 1 or 2 cities and access to horses or copper...circa 2500BC to 1500 bc or thereabouts..
5) Later on things like Horse Archers are great or Elephants and Catapults, if access to ivory, or just Axes/Swords/Catapults. But the importance of siege weapons increases significantly as the game progresses, as the AI gets more established and build walls and have better units. (Note: Horse Archers are used in lieu of siege warfare, using their speed instead)

oh..and did I mention BUG mod ;)
 
Last edited:
Also, could someone post a quick explanation of how combat actually works? I know it's logarithmic or whatever, where 2 more strength is far better than 1 more. But anything specific I should know?
Wounded units can still fight, but rapidly lose combat effectiveness the more injured they are. If you've got a stack of units, set one of them aside to promote with Medic. If you've got an army going to war, spend your first Great General to create a Great Medic.
 
I've been at work all day. I will try to reupload the video tonight so you can see how I used whipping. It was mostly using it to maximise using only 1 pop (wait 2 turns till granary is 29 pop from finished, then whip)

I'll look again at bug when I get home.
 
I appreciate the amount of detail y'all have been putting into your responses. Thanks for all the help.
 
I've been at work all day. I will try to reupload the video tonight so you can see how I used whipping. It was mostly using it to maximise using only 1 pop (wait 2 turns till granary is 29 pop from finished, then whip)
Note that when you whip you'll get the same :mad: penalty regardless of whether you whipped away 1 pop or 10 pop. As such it's generally better not to 1-pop whip, since it'll stack unhappiness faster and you'll grow back into that unhappiness faster. Of course Granaries are the usual exception to that, since growing to 4 pop without one is slower than putting in a chop and 1-pop whipping the rest. But it's something to keep in mind.

Also with regard to whip overflow, it's useful, but don't assume that getting maximum overflow is the best choice all the time. Sometimes it's better to get something out a few turns faster, and especially early on you might find yourself with nothing to put that overflow into anyway.
 
Last edited:

IT FINALLY WORKED. This should be the save.
 

Attachments

  • Civfanaticshelp.CivBeyondSwordSave
    79.9 KB · Views: 129
Top Bottom