neoruski
Glorious Comrade
I need help on how to conquer the computer controled germans, I want them destroyed. What do you suggest me to use against spear men and archers, yes I have Iron and horses avalable.
Need tips on defeating an enemy early.
- Thread starter neoruski
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DrOrgaZmo
Chieftain
What techs do you have?
If you have chivalry the choice is obvious. If you don't, and they have walls in their cities, you should wait.
If you have chivalry the choice is obvious. If you don't, and they have walls in their cities, you should wait.
DiamondzAndGunz
Lurking
Well, if you are still in the ancient age, go ahead and build swordsmen. Spearmen usually don't stand too much of a chance against them, and they can stand up fairly well to archers. If you are in the middle ages and have Chivalry, build knights; spearmen won't stand a chance against them.
neoruski
Glorious Comrade
How many swords men to make?
Phantom Lord
live by the sword
You should attack with packs of 4 or more. It's better to move a big bunch of swordsmen from city to city than attacking several cities at once. Once you have feudalism mix pikemen with swordsmen to defend them from rider/bowmen attacks. If you have horses and feudalism build tons of knights asap.
barron of ideas
Barron
There are unique units that can help the quick initial rush. I have had some success with the Babalonian'x archer, 2-2-1, as it is cheaper than the swordman so you can bring more to the party. The short answer to how many to bring is "how many you got?" Bring the all, I have seen a two warrior force take out a one warrior defense. I don't say it works much of the time, try not to attack across a river, and attacking from a mountan, or hill if there is no mountain can be a big help,
Of course the Persians have the 4-2-1 unique unit that stands in for their swordsman. Beline for Iron working, hook it up and you can do a lot of damage to defending spears or even swords. But bring as many as you can to any party. More often than not there will be at least two defensive units and an offensive unit, or even two, waiting for you. To win on the first round, you need at least 3 attackers, and sometimes one of your guys won't win his battle, so if you don't have 4 veterans, or lucky regulars, you likely won't win the first time. OK to bring spears along with, they can defend against local counterattacks and garrison your new city after you win.
Of course the Persians have the 4-2-1 unique unit that stands in for their swordsman. Beline for Iron working, hook it up and you can do a lot of damage to defending spears or even swords. But bring as many as you can to any party. More often than not there will be at least two defensive units and an offensive unit, or even two, waiting for you. To win on the first round, you need at least 3 attackers, and sometimes one of your guys won't win his battle, so if you don't have 4 veterans, or lucky regulars, you likely won't win the first time. OK to bring spears along with, they can defend against local counterattacks and garrison your new city after you win.
DiamondzAndGunz
Lurking
The only thing with the babylonian bowmen is that it still has only 2 attack, like a regular archer. therefore, it will not be much more help in bringing down a city than regular archers, unless of course, you use them to defend the city afterwards.
Attacking from a mountain or hill gives you no bonus whatsoever. it's only if you are defending, and are standing on a mountain/hill, that you get a bonus to your defense. But, it still is a good idea to attack from mountains/hills, since you will get the defensive bonus if they decide to counter-attack.
bringing along spearmen can help, although they aren't too expensive to build, and can usually be completed fairly quickly. You should probably build as many swordsmen as you can, since they have just as much defense as a spearmen.
ProPain
King
Normally swords and hors/spear combo would both work. Great advantage of horsies is they retreat. Archers/spears might work also but archers don't upgrade that well IMO.
But I would say it depends also on:
- the race you are playing and it's UU,
For example when playing Babs you might build bowmen for GA, Iro Mouted warrior, Persians Immortals. Also goes for UU that are a bit further down the line, like Chinese Riders. Playing chinese I would go Horsemen/spear so i could upgrade to riders later on
- if you have a tech lead or are behind,
If you have a tech lead you might be able to get to chivalry/feudalism quickly and so be able to knights/pike/medieval infantry. Take this into account. If you're behind in tech I would say swords are a bit better because of 3 attack. You will stand a better chance when comp can upgrade to pike before you have chivalry.
- are you playing PTW or vanilla civ3
In PTW you have the swordsmen upgrade line that you miss in vanilla civ3. When playing vanilla I would definitely go for horsemen. You have both retreat and upgrade advantages
Hope this helps and watch out for those Panzers
But I would say it depends also on:
- the race you are playing and it's UU,
For example when playing Babs you might build bowmen for GA, Iro Mouted warrior, Persians Immortals. Also goes for UU that are a bit further down the line, like Chinese Riders. Playing chinese I would go Horsemen/spear so i could upgrade to riders later on
- if you have a tech lead or are behind,
If you have a tech lead you might be able to get to chivalry/feudalism quickly and so be able to knights/pike/medieval infantry. Take this into account. If you're behind in tech I would say swords are a bit better because of 3 attack. You will stand a better chance when comp can upgrade to pike before you have chivalry.
- are you playing PTW or vanilla civ3
In PTW you have the swordsmen upgrade line that you miss in vanilla civ3. When playing vanilla I would definitely go for horsemen. You have both retreat and upgrade advantages
Hope this helps and watch out for those Panzers
While the majoritory of forces are taking on the Germans city by city. I suggest you have some troops deep in enemy territory to pillage. I like to station one spearman and one horseman on a mountain between the cities I am attacking and the rest of the enemy territory. The spearman guards while the horseman uses this mountain a base to pillage roads and attack weak units.
I have found that one defensive unit/one fast pillage unit per city is enough to stop the growth of a civilisation. I normally have these units operating well before I have my city taking units ready to go.
I try to take the easy cities first - small, no walls, weak defenders and use the above strategy to pillage the areas surrounding the tough cities, which I usually leave to when I get knights.
I have found that one defensive unit/one fast pillage unit per city is enough to stop the growth of a civilisation. I normally have these units operating well before I have my city taking units ready to go.
I try to take the easy cities first - small, no walls, weak defenders and use the above strategy to pillage the areas surrounding the tough cities, which I usually leave to when I get knights.
If you want to defeat an enemy early, just make your civilization a civ that has a great ancient UU like the Persians (I have won numerous games by conquest and domination with them). Also, i like the Iriqouis because that Mounted Warrior is actually one deadly unit since it can retreat if it is losing.
ProPain
King
Persians and Iroquois are great, immortals and mounted warriors are very strong UU's indeed.
Don't forget the Egyptians, War Chariot (basically a very early horsemen) and religious/industrious, which isn't bad either.
Don't forget the Egyptians, War Chariot (basically a very early horsemen) and religious/industrious, which isn't bad either.
I love playing as the Egyptians, but of course being the lucky guy i am, i am almost always stuck around mountains and jungle. So, it takes awhile to get my workers there.
Example: I was playing a regent game and my whole freakin island was jungle with a couple stretches of mountains.
If you're talking really early, this thread in GD entitled 'Swordmen vs Horsemen' may be useful: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40955.
Phantom Lord
live by the sword
Another two points would be:
If you're industrious: Take two workers, protect with one or two spearmen and build a road into the direction of your enemy. This helps a lot to shorten the conflict because you can move your troops much faster.
If your enemy has ironworking and uses it: Find his iron source, disconnect it and block it by fortyfying one or more defensive units on it. Since iron is usually found in hills or mountains, you'll get a good defensive position. The AI usually attacks such spots like mad and will probably kill your unit(s), but at a high price. And since you have disconnected before, it has to build a new road first - which gives you enough time to reconquer the place or pillage road tiles leading to it. Once the AI has lost it's iron source it's usually dead meat, no swordsmen, no pikemen, no knights.
The same thing goes for horses, altough iron is much more important and usually easier to block.
If you're industrious: Take two workers, protect with one or two spearmen and build a road into the direction of your enemy. This helps a lot to shorten the conflict because you can move your troops much faster.
If your enemy has ironworking and uses it: Find his iron source, disconnect it and block it by fortyfying one or more defensive units on it. Since iron is usually found in hills or mountains, you'll get a good defensive position. The AI usually attacks such spots like mad and will probably kill your unit(s), but at a high price. And since you have disconnected before, it has to build a new road first - which gives you enough time to reconquer the place or pillage road tiles leading to it. Once the AI has lost it's iron source it's usually dead meat, no swordsmen, no pikemen, no knights.
The same thing goes for horses, altough iron is much more important and usually easier to block.
PersianImmortal
Warlord
good strategy to get the AI before Pikemen or Knights.. spearmen or swordsmen can be beaten, especially when u attack the iron/horse sources first instead of their cities... take at least 6 attack units per city.. if they are size 12.. pillage first to starve them out.. and then attack.
Vinz Clortho
Chieftain
Somewhere in the War Academy it outlines the four classic strategies for an early win.
I've used the Persian Immortals very effectively against the Babylonians and Iroquois before.
Play a civ that starts with Bronze Working and rush the Iron Working tech, so like with the Persians you get the immortals. M By neglecting to buld settlers, great wonders or culture you can rush produce ten or twenty Immortals and march them in a squad to the nearest enemy city (make sure all your cities are connected to the source of iron so they can all get in on the production). Attack, kill, leave a veteran to occupy... now march the others to the next city. Rinse and repeat.
You should be able to take out ten or more cities with 15 immortals. Not should... WILL.
I've used the Persian Immortals very effectively against the Babylonians and Iroquois before.
Play a civ that starts with Bronze Working and rush the Iron Working tech, so like with the Persians you get the immortals. M By neglecting to buld settlers, great wonders or culture you can rush produce ten or twenty Immortals and march them in a squad to the nearest enemy city (make sure all your cities are connected to the source of iron so they can all get in on the production). Attack, kill, leave a veteran to occupy... now march the others to the next city. Rinse and repeat.
You should be able to take out ten or more cities with 15 immortals. Not should... WILL.
Phantom Lord
live by the sword
True, persian immortals rule big time (as long as you don't have greeks as neighbours, hoplites may resist immortals).
Playing other civs than Persia I usually skip warriors completely and start to build spearmen as my first units, but the fact that warriors are upgraded to immortals is pretty interesting. Playing Persia, you may get an early elite warrior, upgrade him to immortal and can hope for a GL in no time. And even if you don't get a GL immortal rush seems to pay off pretty well, you'll get back in captured cities what you don't spend on settlers .
Playing other civs than Persia I usually skip warriors completely and start to build spearmen as my first units, but the fact that warriors are upgraded to immortals is pretty interesting. Playing Persia, you may get an early elite warrior, upgrade him to immortal and can hope for a GL in no time. And even if you don't get a GL immortal rush seems to pay off pretty well, you'll get back in captured cities what you don't spend on settlers .
barron of ideas
Barron
In capturing cities you have to be careful they are at least size two or they go "poof' and all you get is some gold, if the AI had any in its treasury. Or have some culture. As the AI often drafts down to strenth one to get defenders and/or deny you a city if you capture it, this can be tough to do. Better is to capture the capital, which by definition has culture (the palace) and negotiate peace for more cities, or go after the new capital. It is far more productive to go after settlers than the cities they have just created, before they have a chance to grow.
I am not sure it is possible to take ten or more cities with 15 immortals unless you are very careful in what order you attack, and much of the gaims may be from negotiating peace for cities, if you do get that many. Which means you may not need 15 immortals, 5 or 6 may be enough at a time, to take one city, the capital and threaten others to get a "good" peace. A Piece of France, a Piece of Germany...
I am not sure it is possible to take ten or more cities with 15 immortals unless you are very careful in what order you attack, and much of the gaims may be from negotiating peace for cities, if you do get that many. Which means you may not need 15 immortals, 5 or 6 may be enough at a time, to take one city, the capital and threaten others to get a "good" peace. A Piece of France, a Piece of Germany...
Vinz Clortho
Chieftain
I think more importantly over the order in which you attack the cities is when you attack them.
Given my example above, if you have 15 immortals and you begin your genocide campaign early then the opposition usually only has one regular spearman per city as defense.
Using an average of about 1.5 immortals to pound the spearman then kill him, that gives you 10 cities conquered, with ten units as occupying forces remaining (though they may be down to 1 hp).
Of course it's not exact science, so I recommend having a handful of extra archers and immortals as a contingent attack force, either clearing the path to the cities or acting as flank guards for the main force so you don't get ambushed. Early in the game there may be very few roads and not all enemy cities are connected, so during the time it takes to march it's very possible to meet with sporadic guerilla movements.
The idea is to hit them fast and hard before they get a chance to assemble any real defense. But you got to do it early in the game.
Given my example above, if you have 15 immortals and you begin your genocide campaign early then the opposition usually only has one regular spearman per city as defense.
Using an average of about 1.5 immortals to pound the spearman then kill him, that gives you 10 cities conquered, with ten units as occupying forces remaining (though they may be down to 1 hp).
Of course it's not exact science, so I recommend having a handful of extra archers and immortals as a contingent attack force, either clearing the path to the cities or acting as flank guards for the main force so you don't get ambushed. Early in the game there may be very few roads and not all enemy cities are connected, so during the time it takes to march it's very possible to meet with sporadic guerilla movements.
The idea is to hit them fast and hard before they get a chance to assemble any real defense. But you got to do it early in the game.
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