Never Before Seen Leader Elimination

Status
Not open for further replies.
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 19
Akhenaten (Egypt) 21
Alexander II (Russia) 18
Alfred the Great (England) 27
Georges Clemenceau (France) 7
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 16
Meiji (Japan) 21+1=22 - Making your country industrial superpower that wrecked two other superpowers in wars definitely makes you one of the best leaders on this list.
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 20
Shah Jahan (India) 22
Shapur II (Persia) 14
Taizong (China) 20
Thomas Jefferson (America) 9-3=6 - I'm not very interrested in him.
 
Last edited:
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 19
Akhenaten (Egypt) 21
Alexander II (Russia) 18
Alfred the Great (England) 27+1=28 Best option on the list, IMHO.
Georges Clemenceau (France) 7-3=4 Not really interested in seeing very many modern leaders in Civ.
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 16
Meiji (Japan) 22
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 20
Shah Jahan (India) 22
Shapur II (Persia) 14
Taizong (China) 20
Thomas Jefferson (America) 6
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 19
Akhenaten (Egypt) 21
Alexander II (Russia) 18
Alfred the Great (England) 25 (28-3) He can take the hit
Georges Clemenceau (France) 4
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 16
Meiji (Japan) 22
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 21 (20+1) Yes, there can be problems with the Shia. But he is probably the greatest ruler on this list nonetheless.
Shah Jahan (India) 22
Shapur II (Persia) 14
Taizong (China) 20
Thomas Jefferson (America) 6
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 19 + 1 = 20 (Akbar the Great is a worthy military and cultural counterpart to Gandhi, and extremely accomplished. Could probably come with some economic or cultural bonuses with a nice powerful military boost or other, and an achievement riffing on "It's a Trap!".)
Akhenaten (Egypt) 21 - 3 = 18 (Ignored most foreign policy matters until things became too late. Ethelred the Unready, eat your heart out. Also, he was deeply unpopular with Egyptians as a whole, and his legacy mostly dismantled except for his weird alien-like and almost certainly exaggerated sculptures. Many worthier Egyptian rulers from Hatshepsut to Rameses II to Thutmose III exist, and to have *this* ludicrous weirdo as Egyptian leader simply will NOT do. *spits* )
Alexander II (Russia) 18
Alfred the Great (England) 25
Georges Clemenceau (France) 4
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 16
Meiji (Japan) 22
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 21
Shah Jahan (India) 22
Shapur II (Persia) 14
Taizong (China) 20
Thomas Jefferson (America) 6
 
Akhenaten (Egypt) 21 - 3 = 18 (Ignored most foreign policy matters until things became too late. Ethelred the Unready, eat your heart out. Also, he was deeply unpopular with Egyptians as a whole, and his legacy mostly dismantled except for his weird alien-like and almost certainly exaggerated sculptures. Many worthier Egyptian rulers from Hatshepsut to Rameses II to Thutmose III exist, and to have *this* ludicrous weirdo as Egyptian leader simply will NOT do. *spits* )
Having read well over a hundred of books and even more articles about ancient Egypt, I disagree with your bashing, which seems a bit outdated nowadays. And keep in mind that Hatshepsut was not worthier in Egyptian views and shares a similar (but not so complete) damnatio meoriae. And by the way, not because she was a woman, earlier and later female Pharaohs didn't face the same fate. Even her lavish propaganda failed to make her a legit ruler in the eyes of the Egyptians that followed (and it also wasn't just Thutmose III who did it). So how is she worthier? Yes, she was a great Pharaoh, but so was Akhenaten. He was a major reformer of society and religion (note that his religion isn't much more geared towards monotheism than the Egyptian religion before). And the 'neglecting foreign policy' is just a common myth, comparable with the Pyramids being built with slave labor - archeology points to other conclusions, but the myth is just too nice to fade away. And on a personal note: I adore the Amarna art style - not as much as Old Kingdom or 26th dynasty art, but Akhenaten's statues are great and the Amarna tomb's are also a great and very interesting visit (and a welcome change), especially Meryra's. And don't get me started on the famous busts...
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 20
Akhenaten (Egypt) 18
Alexander II (Russia) 18
Alfred the Great (England) 25
Georges Clemenceau (France) (4-3)=1 Just not interested in WWI-era France
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 16
Meiji (Japan) 22
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 21
Shah Jahan (India) 22
Shapur II (Persia) 14
Taizong (China) (20+1)=21 A worthy leader, different enough in appearance from Qin
Thomas Jefferson (America) 6
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 20
Akhenaten (Egypt) 18
Alexander II (Russia) 18
Alfred the Great (England) 25
Georges Clemenceau (France) 1 - 3 = ELIMINATED Not as remarkable as the others in the list
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 16
Meiji (Japan) 22
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 21
Shah Jahan (India) 22 + 1 = 23 There needs to be a Mughal leader for India (and would be a perfect opportunity to include his famous mausoleum)
Shapur II (Persia) 14
Taizong (China) 21
Thomas Jefferson (America) 6
 
Having read well over a hundred of books and even more articles about ancient Egypt, I disagree with your bashing, which seems a bit outdated nowadays. And keep in mind that Hatshepsut was not worthier in Egyptian views and shares a similar (but not so complete) damnatio meoriae. And by the way, not because she was a woman, earlier and later female Pharaohs didn't face the same fate. Even her lavish propaganda failed to make her a legit ruler in the eyes of the Egyptians that followed (and it also wasn't just Thutmose III who did it). So how is she worthier? Yes, she was a great Pharaoh, but so was Akhenaten. He was a major reformer of society and religion (note that his religion isn't much more geared towards monotheism than the Egyptian religion before). And the 'neglecting foreign policy' is just a common myth, comparable with the Pyramids being built with slave labor - archeology points to other conclusions, but the myth is just too nice to fade away. And on a personal note: I adore the Amarna art style - not as much as Old Kingdom or 26th dynasty art, but Akhenaten's statues are great and the Amarna tomb's are also a great and very interesting visit (and a welcome change), especially Meryra's. And don't get me started on the famous busts...
You lack historical evidence backing your conclusions (for example, dismissing the foreign policy point as simply a myth with no supporting evidence), so I doubt your statement about your reading "well over a hundred of books". Almost all scholars agree Akhenaten abandoned foreign policy for the most part, taking on rare issues only where he was personally interested (see, e.g. the Amarna letters). He made art at the expense of a kingdom, and failed to have the foresight to plan for the continual monotheism following his death. Surely he had an idea that wiping out references to the old gods on the old monuments would be unpopular? His reign was essentially a controversial and even traumatizing waste of time. With pretty art. Thanks Akhenaten.

An excerpt from the Ancient History Encyclopedia (the largest and most popular ancient history encyclopedia on the Internet) discusses Akhenaten's neglect of foreign policy:
One of the many unfortunate results of Akhenaten's religious reforms was a neglect of foreign policy. From documents and letters of the time it is known that other nations, formerly allies, wrote numerous times asking Egypt for help in various affairs and that most of these requests were ignored by the deified king.

In contrast, Hatshepsut, scholars agree, is one of Egypt's greatest pharaohs, and very engaged with foreign policy (including but not limited to her expanded trade with Punt). She was nowhere near as reviled as Akhenaten, and her images etc were likely taken down as women were *not* meant to be pharaohs (almost all other queens were simply queen regents for a time, not pharaohs outright, only Hatshepsut and Cleopatra were, and obviously Cleopatra lived in less conservative Egyptian climes). All pharaohs, especially Rameses II, had "lavish propaganda" so that doesn't instantly delegitimize any of them. Akhenaten reformed nothing in society, only in religion. You might say religion affects society, but his major contribution was to a monotheistic cult that died out with him, and a son that overturned his monotheism and allowed future generations to tear his stuff down. Hatshepsut was less reviled than Akhenaten, as she was legitimate in all ways other than that of her sex. She adopted well to the climes, however, and used both military and diplomacy capably and well, unlike a certain sun-obsessed Akhenaten.

You may "adore the Amarna art style" but that says nothing of Akhenaten's strengths as a ruler. Famous busts are negligible compared with actual accomplishment. Similarly, Trump may have high personal recognition and his own cult of sorts, but that doesn't mean he accomplished anything of note, or created a lasting legacy. People often mistake loud rulers like Louis XIV or Henry VIII for competent rulers.

Besides, what would Akhenaten's agenda be called? "Heretic King"?
 
Last edited:
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 20
Akhenaten (Egypt) 18
Alexander II (Russia) 18+1=19 Bringing him back up to 20.
Alfred the Great (England) 25
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 16
Meiji (Japan) 22
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 21
Shah Jahan (India) 23
Shapur II (Persia) 14-3=11 Same as last time.
Taizong (China) 21
Thomas Jefferson (America) 6
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 20
Akhenaten (Egypt) 18
Alexander II (Russia) 19 + 1 =20. After his assassination it was pretty much downhill for Russia.
Alfred the Great (England) 25
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 16
Meiji (Japan) 22
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 21 - 3 =18. More than just the Shia don't recognize him as a Caliph.
Shah Jahan (India) 23
Shapur II (Persia) 11
Taizong (China) 21
Thomas Jefferson (America) 6
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 20
Akhenaten (Egypt) 18
Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alfred the Great (England) 25+1=26 Deserves Top 3 placement.
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 16-3=13 Don't think he's all that well-known outside Japan, at least compared to some other leaders.
Meiji (Japan) 22
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 18
Shah Jahan (India) 23
Shapur II (Persia) 11
Taizong (China) 21
Thomas Jefferson (America) 6
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 20
Akhenaten (Egypt) 18
Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alfred the Great (England) 26
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 13
Meiji (Japan) 22+1=23 - One of the best leaders on this list.
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 18
Shah Jahan (India) 23
Shapur II (Persia) 11
Taizong (China) 21
Thomas Jefferson (America) 6-3=3 - One more vote and he's out. I'm really not interrested in him.
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 20 + 1 = 21 (I think people don't know him, which is why they haven't upvoted him thus far. One of India's greatest rulers, and he would bring some Mughal history to India if added in the game, as well as military/economic/cultural flavor.)
Akhenaten (Egypt) 18 - 3 = 15 (Ridiculous that he survived this far. Definitely *not* one of Egypt's greatest pharaohs. Not worthy to lick Thutmose III's sandals, let alone stand before Hatshepsut or Rameses II).
Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alfred the Great (England) 26
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 13
Meiji (Japan) 23
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 18
Shah Jahan (India) 23
Shapur II (Persia) 11
Taizong (China) 21
Thomas Jefferson (America) 3
 
Last edited:
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 22
Akhenaten (Egypt) (15-3)=12 Pretty much known for his failed Monotheistic cult and funny artwork
Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alfred the Great (England) 26
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 13
Meiji (Japan) 23
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 18
Shah Jahan (India) 23
Shapur II (Persia) (11+1)=12 A Sassanid leader is long overdue
Taizong (China) 21
Thomas Jefferson (America) 3
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 21
Akhenaten (Egypt) 12
Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alfred the Great (England) 26
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 13
Meiji (Japan) 23
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 18
Shah Jahan (India) 23 + 1 = 24 Mr. Taj Mahal
Shapur II (Persia) 12
Taizong (China) 21
Thomas Jefferson (America) 3 - 3 = ELIMINATED There's many better presidents
 
Last edited:
Akbar should have 21 points. Morningcalm made a typo in his upvote.
 
Akbar should have 21 points. Morningcalm made a typo in his upvote.
Thanks for spotting this. Fixed my original post.

And no, it was not a trap.
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 21
Akhenaten (Egypt) 12-3=9 Changed my mind, let's get him out of the way.
Alexander II (Russia) 20
Alfred the Great (England) 26
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 13
Meiji (Japan) 23
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 18
Shah Jahan (India) 24+1=25 We gotta have the man who was laid to rest at the Taj Mahal.
Shapur II (Persia) 12
Taizong (China) 21
 
Abbas I (Persia) 22
Akbar (India) 21
Akhenaten (Egypt) 9
Alexander II (Russia) 20 +1 = 21. One could argue he was the last great Russian leader that didn't leave a pile of Russian corpses in his wake.
Alfred the Great (England) 26
Ivan III The Great (Russia) 22
Kanmu (Japan) 13 -3 =10. Seems to be famous for moving the capital around.
Meiji (Japan) 23
Muʿāwiya I (Arabia) 18
Shah Jahan (India) 25
Shapur II (Persia) 12
Taizong (China) 21
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom