Never send an army to do a Great Leaders job

ARMY IS USELESS

I have to disagree. If you just use one GL for an army and that army wins one time, you can build the heroic epic and military academy. With the academy, you can just have the city it is in build armies and you can use your other leaders for other purposes. Armies are the best way to defend. If you can get an army of Mech inf then the enemy will have to waste tons of units to take it out. Also, you can minimize war losses by using armies. One more thing is that armies can generally take out all of those stubborn cities that have one little unit sticking out tons of attacks. Just throw in an army and watch it fall...
 
Ancient Leaders are more effective than Modern Leaders. I often get a Leader in ancient times and overpower my enemy. With that I can get the Heroic Epic and the Military Academy and build more armies.
 

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True that Ironikinit.I dunno just say "change it please" because I´ve seen Dan from Firaxis wandering around these forums, maybe he will take notice if enough ppl add "change it please" to their posts. :D

Am not so sure an e-mail will do the trick either,because so many of us had so many ideas,and posted so many,but so few were implemented in the game (this line sounds like a Churchill quote) :lol:

On it being an easy fix or not,I really wouldn´t know why it should be a tough one.I edited armies to pillage,because I really couldn´t understand why this had been left out,likewise can´t understand why units in armies cant be upgraded.Think in some regards the army concept has only been halfheartedly implemented anyway.I used to play Imperialismus and Conquest of the New World,in both games I prefered the "Leader" and army concept.Don´t know if you tried these games Ironikinit,they had their faults too,no doubt but on this matter they were better.
You would build a leader in Conquest otNW,from what I remember the more advanced one´s military research was the better the leader one could produce,one would have a certain amount of points and would devide them among certain skills of the leader,like movement,how often it could attack,how many units the leader´s army could consist of etc.Then one would just load units into the army and march into battle,being able to use every unit as one wanted and benefitting from the leader´s skills,giving movement bonus might have been good in order to move through tough countryside, enabling this army to catch up with any enemy one,but might cost dearly in battle if it had too few attack points.
Can´t remember Imperialismus so well either,if the leader had an effect on the army or not,but what was better was that one would send armies into provinces these being defended by the AI army,all would be decided in this battle,instead of letting every single unit fight.
Both concepts can´t be implemented in Civ3...at least not anymore,but both show how much more could have been done if they had taken the time to think the entire concept through.


Am not one of the guys who gets annoyed with tanks losing to spearmen,but I do believe it would have been time to change the military system in the Civ series,as an old fan of the original Panzer General,I would have loved to have seen a similar concept in Civ.These two games aren´t that far apart anyway, both use single units,which one slides across the map,they weren´t gathered in armies,since every unit represented a dozen single units and both games are strictly turn based.PG even used a similar shield sytem,the prestge points.Civ2 left out a lot of improvemements which were made in Colonization,and sadly all Civ parts ignored PG.

Yet,there was so much to gain;
Elite units really were elite in PG,they would fight better,maybe too good at times,but elite units are not only elite because they survive a battle,that too,but because they know how to use their weapons effectivly,this they knew by gaining experience,would also solve the tank vs. spearman quarrel once and for all.
Experience points were gained faster by destroying superior forces.
If a unit had lost hitpoints one could either supply them with elite replacements or normal ones,it depended on prestige points,in Civ that could be gold or a resource.Waging too long wars,would show by new troops lacking experience since the costs would be too high in the long run.
Units could run out of ammo or fuel,or cut off from supplies, likewise could have easily been implemented by Civ3´s resource system.
The upgrade system was basically the same,one could upgrade after the tech was there,same as in Civ.
Artillery units would defend ground units being attacked within their range.Anti-Aircraft guns would do the same,if it was an aerial threat,fighters could be placed along side bombers as escort,opposing fighters would have to fight through the escorts,to attack the bombers.
Strategic bombers wouldn´t kill a unit but weaken it,esp. by blowing up supplies of the unit,decreasing it´s ammo and fuel.
Tactical bombers would be able to destroy the unit.

Sounds a bit unfitting for Civ,since a lot of this sounds so modern times,but it could be done.Zachriel said on one of the threads, that nations go to war amongst other reasons because of pride,I´d find it just as bad if software companies ignored other good games, because of similar reasons.
Of the games I enjoyed most after Civ and Col,all had an improved military system,Master of Orion 2 is another one.
Some may complain now this is too much micro management,way too complicated,I think the game would have benefitted far more than it would have lost.Especially since the concepts overlap,I never liked realtime strategy that much,for one reason,I didn´t give a **** about my units,you´d produce thousands without ever liking any of them especially,this was changed by the original Civ, that´s what made this game good,one would care about one´s cities and civilization,they were owned and made by oneself,the same should go for military units.

OMG so lost for words,am sorry :rolleyes:

Think I´m gonna start a thread on this :p
 
Originally posted by Woody


I have to agree with this, nothing like running around with 12-15 armies of four modern armor. You can take out those size 35 cities with 4 or 5 mech infintry in them without loosing a single unit and without lugging the artillery around.

Armies of Modern Armor are quite a waste. You cannot attack more than once in a turn, much better keeping those 36-45 modern armors by themselves.
 
Armies of Modern Armor are quite a waste. You cannot attack more than once in a turn, much better keeping those 36-45 modern armors by themselves.


If you attack those mech infantry in cities with solo modern armor you are going to loose 3 to 4 on each one and in the process make the mech infantry an elite unit. Also when attacking cites you always cross one or two squares of enemy controlled territory so you only get one attack anway. Besides I like to have 100 or so solo units running around to pick of workers and units outside of cites and to take out the riflemen and older units that are under those mechs. I even keep my calvary around for wipe up operations.
 
Wow! I'm glad I started this thread. I had no idea how useful armies were. I also had no idea I was missing out on two small Wonders. Thanks everyone.
 
" Now this is cool and all but the last game I ended up with 9 armys fortified in that city with no units in them cause armys are just generally dumb. Maybe im not making good use of them but they seem lame, Expensive, and non upgradeable. "


I think it's safe to say that you were'nt making good use of them. ;)

Here's a couple examples on how to make good use of them:

Consider....you have a stack of say.... Swordmen attacking a stack of spearmen somewhere. Your first Swordman attacks...but loses. At the conclusion of this attack, you have lost your swordman, and the defending spearman upgrades from regular, to veteran. You throw your next swordman at the stack....but face a new, and healthy defender. Same thing happens, you lose a swordsman, defending spearman advances from regular to veteran, (or worse, vet to elite). Repeat until the lesson sinks in.... An army, (which has three units in it.....until the Pentagon Wonder), presses the assault until that defending unit is destroyed. So Swordsman 'A' in the Army fights until it has a single health point left, then Swordsman 'B' steps in, and continues the assault against the same unit....which has'nt won anything yet, so has'nt upgraded. Nor do the defending units switch to healthier units during that assault. The Army continues attacking that ONE unit until either the Army, or the defending unit is destroyed....(smart money is on the Army).


When attacking cities, (that probably contain one or two of that civ's best defensive units), I use my armies to crack the tough nuts, then my regular offensive units to finish off the dregs.

Armies heal. Units within Armies advance to Elite status, (and I believe can even generate Leaders). And if you're ever stuck with an obsolete Army, you can disband it for some serious cash to hurry along some important construction somewhere, and build an up-to-date Army to replace it.
 
here`s a thread where I`ve detailed my use of armies.

One thing I know do additionally: move an army on defensive units, plus one unit that has one more movement point, into the enemys rear. start pillaging. The army can`t pillage, it`s there to protect the other unit(s). The AI "never" attack a state-of-the-art (or almost-s-o-t-a) Army so you can just cut his each and every road..... If they do go for the army because it`s a little older you can use the army as a very effective diversion :D

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13332
 
I use leaders for armies. FOr example the most recent game an army saved my ass. I put an army of 3 veteran musketmen together and they held off a HUGE AI army of swordsmen, cavalry and archers!
 
Originally posted by Woody



If you attack those mech infantry in cities with solo modern armor you are going to loose 3 to 4 on each one and in the process make the mech infantry an elite unit.

True. But that's where Radar Artillery and bombers come in. Continuously bombard the enemy position to reduce the city's population to something less defensible and in the process damage the mech-infantry without having it promoted to elite. Then send the Modern Armour to mop up. I've found that modern armour can easily beat mech-infantry that has been pounded into its red by my airstrikes and artillery bombardment.
 
In this world, I have only gotten 3 leaders -- in 2001, and total about 1400 years or war. One army -- too slow for modern war--infantry, but effective when it gets there. Usually I am too impatient to wait for it and the artillery, and my horde (155) or cav units rarely lose one. WHat I have seen in this war, though is cities hard to crack. I can send a stack of 20 Cav against a pop12 city, with with 1 infantry, 3 or 4 conscript riflemen, and a longbowman and a cav or two. The cav and bowmen are pushovers, but getting there....:( It will take 10 or 12 cav attacks to get the infantry and 4 or 6 for each rifelman. In fairness, I have watched Rome, my ally, do the sam thing... losing attack after attack. If I had more than one army, I would wait for them. Now that tanks are here, I will create tank armies, and eventually a mix of 2 tanks and one mech infantry. I am creating armies, and will soon have one on the line... but no wars at the moment. When I do go to war it will be a world war... Rome has an mpp with England, and China doesnt count, but they will no doubt join.
Russia too... with her one city, no roads, no army, no trading, no research, but no doubt she will again sign an MPP and boycott:D
 
Ah yes,the evening before a great war,nice. :D

Well have this game going with Aztecs,my problem is this;

They are militaristic,and have just put their abilities to use against a weak Russia,thing is that I´m not getting GLs at all!!
The year is close to 1000AD,we´ve captured most Russian cities
and had multiple battles but there aren´t any appearing.This annoys me since I was looking forward to building the Heroic Epic,before making a peace :(
My army was built from scratch,my first war on this map so it was mainly made up of vets,but even the elite units don´t create leaders when victorious :cry:
 


Just trying something ;)
 
Dirk, are you trying to show us a picture on your hard drive?
 
:lol:

How did you guess Ironikinit :)
Too bad I wasn´t allowed to delete the post afterwards.Oh well that´s the situation,but have never put an image up,just played around a bit with Thumbs,PSP etc.

No solution on why I´m not getting any GLs though.
Think the blue guys are next,then the grey ones up right,poor sod Gandhi,tiny island but they have 7 gems there :D He´s still researching mathematics 1010 AD,and the sea between doesn´t let him travel. tststs

Hell a GL must come sometime :egypt:
 
Well, in this world my first GL appeared in 1904. I already had 200 turns invested in the Forbidden Palace. Guess what he did:D
Next one came a few turns later, and I got my first army.

I have played both Imperialism and II. The combat was fun, The general did in fact affect the morale of th troops, the Cav moved on the battlefield.. cannon and arty were ranged, etc. You actually played the battle on the battle field, moving your units. Trouble was, it was hard to get to the point where you had meaningful battles. Not impossible, just dreary.
 
If you attack those mech infantry in cities with solo modern armor you are going to loose 3 to 4 on each one and in the process make the mech infantry an elite unit.
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True. But that's where Radar Artillery and bombers come in. Continuously bombard the enemy position to reduce the city's population to something less defensible and in the process damage the mech-infantry without having it promoted to elite. Then send the Modern Armour to mop up. I've found that modern armour can easily beat mech-infantry that has been pounded into its red by my airstrikes and artillery bombardment.

While your building those Radar Artilley and bombers I will have twice as many Modern Armor running around so I can afford to put 1/3 of them into armies. Also by the time you take to bomb a city, capture it, move the artillery and bombers near the next one etc etc. I will have my war over. I can get modern wars over in 2 to 3 turns doing this so I can stay in Democarcy without getting war weariness problems. Also by getting wars over quickly I virtually eliminate culture flipping. Since I dont worry about culture flipping its nice to capture cites with high populations and most of the non-culture improvements intact.
 
Originally posted by Woody


While your building those Radar Artilley and bombers I will have twice as many Modern Armor running around so I can afford to put 1/3 of them into armies. Also by the time you take to bomb a city, capture it, move the artillery and bombers near the next one etc etc. I will have my war over. I can get modern wars over in 2 to 3 turns doing this so I can stay in Democarcy without getting war weariness problems. Also by getting wars over quickly I virtually eliminate culture flipping. Since I dont worry about culture flipping its nice to capture cites with high populations and most of the non-culture improvements intact.

:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

that`s the way (a-ha, a-ha) I like it!

:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

No, really, the Ai is completely incapable to deal with a synchronized surprise attack (preferably three-pronged) with defensive armies as the screening force. just can`t get it`s arse up and kill those armies - and so it dies quickly... RIP, India!
 
Nice having someone finally fighting through my posting @ Moulton. :)

Yes Imperialismus had it´s problems,you said getting to meaningful battles was problematic,guess one can say that, allthough I did take every single battle serious,we are talking provinces of silver afterall.Except the ones were I´d chase a unit of routed Infantry,they´d just run away the buggers.What really annoyed me more was in Imperialismus 2,did you notice that towards the end of the game it was nearly impossible to be on the offensive?!

They had these large cannons,they´d just shred my attackers to bits before they ever got in range,Imperialismus 2 was better but part 1 actually gave one appropiate attackers (tanks) towards the end of the game.

As for other ppl playing the games I´ve mentioned,I´ve recently seen a posting of Ironikinit were he wrote down his games he had on hard drive :cool: , People´s General!!Well that´s like Panzer General,so he should be aware of the concepts I´m talking about. :D
 
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