New Beta Version - February 21st (2/21)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

New beta version inbound. The current version is very stable, and this one's new supply system needs beta testing. Enter: you!

Bugs:

• Fixed a few smaller bugs from github

AI:

• Fixed a few more quirks in the grand strategy AI
• Fixed a rather nasty long-standing bug in city specialization and citizen logic for the AI
• Added AI diplo penalty for capturing an original holy city from a founder.
• Changed archaeology penalty so that you are penalized when you start digging, not after.
• AI peace logic loosened a bit with regards to unhappiness and war weariness.
• AI should pillage more.

Balance:

• AI difficulty balance:
  • Adjusted AI handicap bonuses to apply to all cities (not just capital). Averages out to roughly same, as total value was reduced.
  • AI now gains a % of production in the unit's origin city for a military unit when it is defeated in battle (based on AI handicap) - is a marginal amount, but should help the AI survive a bit better in high-level play
  • AI units now gain bonus strength versus humans ('Resistance') at Emperor/Immortal/Deity levels - 10%, 12%, 16% respectively
• War rebalance:
  • War Weariness is now a thing from the beginning of the game - is a global modifier
  • Affected by length of the war, cultural influence, and warscore
  • Warscores that are very high or very low increase war weariness slightly - your people want the war to end!
  • Positive warscore affects war weariness slightly more than negative ones- people want wars that are being won to be over quickly!
  • Starting a war, or having war declared on you quickly reduces war weariness due to enthusiasm/fear.
  • War Weariness affects three things:
  • Unhappiness (value is diminished by number of cities you own, so tall civs are hurt a bit more by this!)
  • Unit Supply (longer and/or more decisive conflicts reduce your unit supply, up to +75% of your max possible)
  • Unit Production/Gold cost (longer and/or more decisive conflicts increase your unit costs, up to +75%)
  • Going over supply hurts both production and growth - 5% per unit over, up to 75%.
• Rebalanced unit supply:
  • Handicaps reworked slightly
  • Puppets only contribute 67% of their pop towards potential military pool for a city.
  • Era reductions:
  • Supply from Population declines based on the number of technologies you own (citizen militia giving way to professional armies, etc.), dropping to 5% of a city's population at minimum.
  • Handicap starting supply reduces by 1 every era, dropping to zero if possible
• Some buildings now increase your unit supply cap by % amounts based on city population (per city)
  • 5% from Walls (10% from Walls of Babylon)
  • 5% from Castles (10% from Mission)
  • 5% from Harbors
  • 5% from Arsenals (10% from Krepost)
  • 5% from Hospitals
  • 5% from Military Bases
• Some buildings now increase your unit supply cap by a flat amount
  • +1 from Barracks/Ikanda
  • +1 from Armory/Dojo
  • +1 from Stable/Ducal Stable/Ducal
  • +1 from Military Academy
  • +3 from Heroic Epic
  • If you expend a Great General for its Citadel bonus, you increase your Military Unit Supply Cap by 2
• Global bonuses:
  • Himeji: +10% supply cap (population) in city where it is built
  • Red Fort: +5% Supply Cap (population) in all Cities
  • Brandenburg Gate: +10 Supply Cap (flat) in city where it is built
  • Great Wall: +1 Supply Cap (flat) per city
• Added UI top panel information for all of this
• General:
  • Increased Industrial+ unit and building costs by about 25-40%, and increased building maintenance in late-game by about 2GPT per building
  • Reduced late-game tech costs by about 10-15%.
  • Faith required to found/enhance a religion increased to 800/1200 (goal: pushing the goal line back a bit allows later-blooming pantheons to have a chance to surpass early boost pantheons)
• Pledges of Protection now limited by 3 OR factors:
  • - Can trade with CS
  • - Allied to CS
  • - Trade Route to CS
  • If you have 60% military PLUS one of these, you can PoP. Otherwise, nope.
  • If you have 60%, have a PoP but suddenly lack one of these, a countdown begins at which point the PoP ends (just like <60% military countdown)
• Promotions:
  • Logistics now -30% RCS (was -20%)
• Culture:
  • Adjusted Historic Event tourism down just a bit more
• Policies:
  • Progress: reduced Equality pop requirement to 16 (Was 18)
  • Authority: reduced supply cap adjustment to 10%
• Leaders:
  • Russia: Ostrog- +1 Gold on Camps/Lumbermills/Mines, 50% on Culture/Gold tile costs (was 25%) - 150p cheaper, but +1 maintenance
  • India: Can now build inquisitors. Naga-Malla base move increased by 1.
  • Shoshone: Pathfinder gains 40% more yields and experience from ancient ruins than a normal scout.

Link: https://mega.nz/#!2ddSUSxQ!V8XFErL6I3T3nxAWuqITwMnbXYviCtTa8HDdeoEZx84

Online as of 10:55pm EST. Not savegame compatible.

Is a BETA, so do not use if you don't want to be a tester!

Cheers,
Gazebo

 

[Jarula]

has the skola been fixed?

 

[Gazebo]

has the skola been fixed?

Huh?

 

[Bromar1]

Woah, these look like big changes! So what does this mean for the total supply cap over the length of the game? I'm guessing it would be much lower than previous iterations

 

[pandasnail]

Not going to have an opinion on the war changes until I play it, but two other things.

Naga Malla gets four move instead of attack and move? I get that's a buff, but I just little interest in a horse replacement unit that can't shuffle in and out.

You list trade routes twice for the new PtP. Is one supposed to be something else or I am missing a minor distinction?

 

[Gazebo]

Woah, these look like big changes! So what does this mean for the total supply cap over the length of the game? I'm guessing it would be much lower than previous iterations

Well, it tends to flatten out a bit more around the mid-game. If you get all the WWs related to supply and go authority you're going to have a much, much bigger army than anyone else. I don't want to post specific numbers but ~15 is standard for first 100 turns or so, then up into the 20-40s regularly until the pop explosion of the late game.

Not going to have an opinion on the war changes until I play it, but two other things.

Naga Malla gets four move instead of attack and move? I get that's a buff, but I just little interest in a horse replacement unit that can't shuffle in and out.

You list trade routes twice for the new PtP. Is one supposed to be something else or I am missing a minor distinction?

Naga is not supposed to be a skirmisher - it is a bruiser (as per the feared elephant promotion). The movement lets it get through rough terrain a little more regularly now.

TR twice b/c you can either have a TR to the city or be in range - essentially a failsafe so that either is correct.

 

[pandasnail]

Naga is not supposed to be a skirmisher - it is a bruiser (as per the feared elephant promotion). The movement lets it get through rough terrain a little more regularly now.

Ok. Doesn't fit my playstyle at all, but I get that not everything has to. CrazyG does seem to like the unit, for instance. (And ones that have Logistics will be incredible now even for me)

TR twice b/c you can either have a TR to the city or be in range - essentially a failsafe so that either is correct.

Oh right, because you can't repeat a trade route, I get it now.

 

[CrazyG]

Great update, excited to try the new stuff. I'm curious though, how exactly does one run a trade route without being in range to run a trade route? Start it then sell your harbor?

 

[Gazebo]

Great update, excited to try the new stuff. I'm curious though, how exactly does one run a trade route without being in range to run a trade route? Start it then sell your harbor?

Any kind of situation like that, yeah. Like I said, it is more of a failsafe than anything else (also makes it easier for you to see if it is a viable target as the CS tooltip will tell you (instead of having to use the trade interface to see if you are in range).

G

 

[CrazyG]

Any kind of situation like that, yeah. Like I said, it is more of a failsafe than anything else (also makes it easier for you to see if it is a viable target as the CS tooltip will tell you (instead of having to use the trade interface to see if you are in range).

G

Makes sense. BTW, right now according to the tech tree the non fresh water quarries get their boost before fresh water. IDK if that was new to this version or not

 

[Blue Ghost]

Awesome work as always! I will try this out.

I am a bit concerned about all the new rules being added, from a complexity standpoint. For those of us who have been playing the CBP for a while, they're not a big deal. But every new layer of rules adds to the barrier to entry for new players, especially when the rules aren't intuitive, like the new war weariness system, or things like the modifications to tourism based on capitals taken. Is complexity creep a concern that's taken into account?

 

[Gazebo]

Awesome work as always! I will try this out.

I am a bit concerned about all the new rules being added, from a complexity standpoint. For those of us who have been playing the CBP for a while, they're not a big deal. But every new layer of rules adds to the barrier to entry for new players, especially when the rules aren't intuitive, like the new war weariness system, or things like the modifications to tourism based on capitals taken. Is complexity creep a concern that's taken into account?

Yep. The supply cap is a vanilla concept we fleshed out. We also do our best to keep the UI as informative as possible.

 

[peterw1987]

• AI units now gain bonus strength versus humans ('Resistance') at Emperor/Immortal/Deity levels - 10%, 12%, 16% respectively

WTH.... immortal ai units are already strong enough with that tons of promotions....
This will be brutal

 

[Owlbebach]

• AI units now gain bonus strength versus humans ('Resistance') at Emperor/Immortal/Deity levels - 10%, 12%, 16% respectively

WTH.... immortal ai units are already strong enough with that tons of promotions....
This will be brutal

If i'm not mistaken they will have less units now, aren't they? Or at least they will have great penalty for having huge army...

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Amazing work!

 

[tu_79]

Changed archaeology penalty so that you are penalized when you start digging, not after.

While I understand this to avoid easy stealing, I use to dig for the civ (gifting them the archeological site) as a way to prevent that my cultural competition gets more artifacts, after I steal one for me.

AI units now gain bonus strength versus humans ('Resistance') at Emperor/Immortal/Deity levels - 10%, 12%, 16% respectively

Why just this three difficulty levels?

Going over supply hurts both production and growth - 5% per unit over, up to 75%.

This is a big big stick! I though you would only limit unit production.

Increased Industrial+ unit and building costs by about 25-40%, and increased building maintenance in late-game by about 2GPT per building

This will need further balance probably. Smaller armies means also more spare hammers and gold for developing, so I understand the cost rise. By the way, is it an increase on maintenance for all buildings, or just for those unlocked in later eras?

 

[Aldebaran1997]

Krepost...you mean Ostrog, right?

 

[Infixo]

Why just this three difficulty levels?

And it's not evenly growing? Maybe better: King/Emp/Imm/Dty +4/8/12/16. And respectively -4/8/12 for lower than Prince.

 

[Owlbebach]

And it's not evenly growing? Maybe better: King/Emp/Imm/Dty +4/8/12/16. And respectively -4/8/12 for lower than Prince.

Don't think its necessary, its just too easy as it is. Seriously, i'm not even sure if it is possible to loose on Prince...

 

[Infixo]

Don't think its necessary, its just too easy as it is. Seriously, i'm not even sure if it is possible to loose on Prince

Not that it's necessary, just for the sake of game philosophy and general rules. The lower level the easier, the higher the harder. And also drastic changes are not good when you learn and climb-up. I'd rather see steady +4/8/12 when going from Prince to Immortal that a sudden bump +10 on Emperor.