New Civilisation: Italy

well, since you can make this kind of things for a lot of civ (america and england, France and Rome, etc...), i don't think this is the question.

You can't reduct Italy to the modern Rome...

What about the papal states, Firenze, Venezia, Genova, Leonardo da Vinci, Raphael, michaelangelo, Garibaldi, puccini, Verdi, V.E.R.D.I., Juventus etc, etc...

there are not roman, there are italian.

Italy got a lot of influence from Roma, but from other kind too.
 
Italy deserves a civ other than Rome, certainly. And I think you have done a great work. But what about the city list? Could you (copy+)paste it into here as I'd be interesting to know it (and can't download it atm - wrong computer).

mfG mitsho
 
LAnkou said:
well, since you can make this kind of things for a lot of civ (america and england, France and Rome, etc...), i don't think this is the question.

You can't reduct Italy to the modern Rome...

What about the papal states, Firenze, Venezia, Genova, Leonardo da Vinci, Raphael, michaelangelo, Garibaldi, puccini, Verdi, V.E.R.D.I., Juventus etc, etc...

there are not roman, there are italian.

Italy got a lot of influence from Roma, but from other kind too.


The civilizations go ahead. Or perhaps you could say that the Germany of Arminius is equal to the Germany of Bismark? We are honest please.

Why Why that civilization, and others, remain equal?
 
Italicus said:
The civilizations go ahead. Or perhaps you could say that the Germany of Arminius is equal to the Germany of Bismark? We are honest please.

Why Why that civilization, and others, remain equal?

Of course, the Italians are (to a part) descendants of the Romans. But that's not the point. Fact is that Rome AND Italy deserve to be a own civ, since they are distinct enough (regarding leaders, unique units and above all and most important City lists!) There ain't no way to have Venezia or Milano (not Mediolanum!) in a civ game but to have Italy. Understood?

It's not a downgrade of the Italian/Roman achievements, but an upgrade!

mitsho

PS: It differs from your two examples as following. We can perfectly well assume that Vercingetorix, Orgetorix and all the famous Celts are different from France also regarding Gergovia, Alesia, etc. ... ! Meanwhile, Arminius' Germany wasn't a civ. It's as simple as that. They were Germanic tribes without big cities!
 
LAnkou said:
Hi everybody,

here is the Italy:

symbol: white Pisa Tower on a lightskyblue background

leaders:
Victor Emmanuel (expansive, organized)
favors nationhood

Laurent de Medicis (aggressive, creative)
favors caste system

What about Benito Mussolini? Giuseppe Garibaldi? Niccolo Machiavelli? The Borgias, specifically Roderigo and Adriano aka Pope Adrian V, or their sister Lucrezia would also fit. How about Camillo Benso, Count of Cavour - the one who put Garibaldi in charge of kicking the French and Spanish Bourbon Dynasty out of Sicily and unifying Italy in the 1860's?
 
well, i usually don't take the time to answer a post that doesn't start by "Hi, you got a good idea" or "Hello, i have some remark" especially when it talks about mussolini, but i will (today i'm nice)

Hi Gianluca,

i choose 2 leaders, because i always start a new civ with 2.
My favorite ones were V.E.R.D.I. and Lorenzo (french name: Laurent) de Medici and they were the first who came to my mind.
I thought a moment to make Berlusconi (Corruptionnal, taking-everybody-for-silly-people-dom), but they might be some Berlusconi supporters that i don't want to offend.
I see you only have a few messages so you may not knowing that Mussolini is a leaders i won't add by any means to any of my civilisation. (personnal reason. BTW, i find the fact that you put him first on your list quite interesting, even if i don't want it to be debated on this post. period)
Garibaldi was on ballots with Victor Emmanuel, but V.E.R.D.I. (i really like the Victor Emmanuel Rex D'Italia thing) finally wins.
Machiavelli (even if the Prince is one of my favourite book, "he wanted to teach prince, he finally teach peoples" Rousseau) wasn't a ruler of any territory.
The Borgias didn't come first to my mind, but they might be a good choice if i go with a third leader: Lucrezia (sexual, Orgiac)....just type "sexe" on google and you get plenty of photo that would fit for a static leader!!!
Cavour was quite unknown to me (sorry, i'm french...nobody's perfect!!) and he was in the same position that Garibaldi: Why should i take vassal to the king, when i can take the king himself?

Hope it answers your questions
 
@Lankou Firaxis chose Otto von Bismarck, and not his king/emperor William! why? Because he was the genius of the time and did all the gread work. After he "descended", Germany got more and more into trouble resulting in WWI. It's the same thing with Garibaldi and Cavour, you see.

And, btw. you still haven't answered my question. For me, the most interesting part of the new civ is mostly how the city list is done. Well, it's not that important anymore, as I just could go down to the other computer and download the file and look at the city list, (but I got other things to do atm ;)).

anyways, mitsho
 
sorry for the city list, i hope you like it...

for the moment, i'm a little busy, so i quickly answered gianluca...
 
mitsho said:
@Lankou Firaxis chose Otto von Bismarck, and not his king/emperor William! why? Because he was the genius of the time and did all the gread work. After he "descended", Germany got more and more into trouble resulting in WWI. It's the same thing with Garibaldi and Cavour, you see.

Garibaldi was a great general, not a politician and it would be somehow odd to see him as a nation leader.
If you are looking for a politician to replace the King as nation leader, I'd suggest Giovanni Giolitti.
 
Who does the average person know? Garibaldi or Giolitti? ;)

But ok, it depends on how you chose the leaders, probably either one would be fine, but I'd have to look up Giolitti first... ;)

mitsho

PS: city list is ok ;)
 
mitsho said:
Who does the average person know? Garibaldi or Giolitti? ;)

But ok, it depends on how you chose the leaders, probably either one would be fine, but I'd have to look up Giolitti first... ;)

mitsho

PS: city list is ok ;)

We study of Giolitti at school, so I assume that everyone (or at least the average person) DO KNOW about him.
Garibaldi is much more popular though.
Yet, Giovanni Giolitti has been one of the most capable politician of the whole italian history.
 
Well, outside of Italy, they're not even mentioned, I'm sorry... ;) so I doubt that the average non-Italian person will know them.

(I can only speak of my school-knowledge on this, and I shall thus respect your saying thatt Giolitti guy is more important... ;)).

m
 
mitsho said:
Well, outside of Italy, they're not even mentioned, I'm sorry... ;) so I doubt that the average non-Italian person will know them.

(I can only speak of my school-knowledge on this, and I shall thus respect your saying thatt Giolitti guy is more important... ;)).

m

Of course I ment the average ITALIAN person.
Anyway, since there is a considerable period of time in our history (1901-1914) that we use to refer to as "the age of Giolitti", I'm sure he has to be mentioned on the Internet. Maybe you'll want to do some search on your own.
 
well, this is for french school:

History of the italian peninsula:

Rome is created
they conquer gauls (and a few other countries with no importance) grrrr bad romans
Fall of the romans (Franks beat them. Yay!! First defeat in a long row for italian, still according to french history books)
Renaissance (well, the period of Lorenzo de Medicis, Machiavell, ) Francois I of France beat some italian ass
Napoleon conquer some italian territory (again kicking italian ass)
People's spring (we study germany and bismarck on the one hand, Italy and Garibaldi-Cavour-V.E.R.D.I., note the fact that only bismarck is truly study for germans instead of the whole three for Italy. I might add, that IIRC, Garibaldi is not presented as a military man, but more as a politician. Stupid french school)
WWI: well, italian wanted Dalmatia and didn't get it
Totalitarism in Europe: Hitler, Staline and Mussolini. Benito is presented as the less worse of the three, but he's definitely not a good man.
WWII: Italian did pretty much nothing (understand never really get into action, they weren't innocent), get their ass kicked and even return their shirt at the end...
Study of Modern days: Italia can be resumed to FIAT, Mafia and tourism.

As you see, that's pretty simple and somewhat oriented. For a lot of people in France, Italian people can be considered as a brother for French people: we may have some fight from time to time, but we love each others (whereas English people, not scots, irish or welsh, i mean english people are considered as our best ennemies. We are allies, but that's just a brain thing, not a heart thing. get my point?)

these are just generalities, of course and
1) may not be taken as holy truth
2) may not be representative of my own thinking
3) are french common ideas of what french people think (i know you are surprised, but we think, that's true!!!)

Conclusion:
You, Italian people, may be surprised by what i've done or choose, beeing the leaders, the city list (thanks Wiki for that, most of the cities I know are historical or Football city, sometimes both, and when you have 18/20 clubs with some cities like Roma, Milano or Torino with two of them, it begins difficult) or the UU (that i definitely like, this is truly a flavoured UU, not a boring put-the-name-of-a-civ-here warrior/cavalry/infantry/marines) so if you have suggestions, i'm very glad to look at them. However, i will look carefully before changing something to another one that I don't know, because if i don't know something, there are surely other people that doesn't!!!

That is the balance between Culture and Knowledge. Garibaldi is culture for me (and common french people), Giolitti would be Knowledge if i knew it. Now, if you really think that something is wrong (Garibaldi instead of V.E.R.D.I.) i may do that.

By the way, I really appreciate all your comments. I really learn a lot of things (looking at Giolitti on Wiki at the moment)

EDIT: since there isn't anything about Giolitti neither on french nor english wiki, if someone can light this guy for me a little, i would be thankfull.
 
LAnkou said:
EDIT: since there isn't anything about Giolitti neither on french nor english wiki, if someone can light this guy for me a little, i would be thankfull.

There is an entry on the english Wiki, actually:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Giolitti

Anyway, I think he' s been a decent prime minister who ruled the country quite well on the whole, making a few mistakes along the way. Nothing special, Lorenzo de' Medici and Vittorio Emanuele are better choices IMHO.
 
Back
Top Bottom