New districts

[Caprikel]

Commercial Hubs feel pretty useless when you can build a Harbor instead. Part of the problem is that gold is too easy to come by throughout most of the game, and it's never felt like a limiting factor for me when building military units. If gold was harder to come by, Commercial Hubs would be more useful. It also suffers from having few adjacencies, with rivers being the only consideration to make, so there's no real thinking involved when placing them, unlike the Industrial Zone which became the most interesting and complex district to plan around. I guess there's the Harbor adjacency, but there's not much point in having a Harbor and CH in a city when the main use of a CH is the trade route you get from it. A few adjacencies that could help could be a major adjacency next to Oasis's for desert cities, maybe a City Center adjacency like the Harbor, a canal adjacency would also make a ton of sense, and maybe a luxury resource adjacency since those actually make sense as things to trade.

 

[NukeAJS]

What about separating a naval yard from a harbor?

I'd love to see this in addition to the policy cards that affect commercial districts also affecting harbors. Oh and veterancy (+30% build speed for encampments, habors and their buildings) only applying to encampments and the new water CD.

 

[rlw33]

Another district that relates to the loyalty system? Some kind of propaganda district?

 

[criZp]

I don't think it would be a new harbor district because taking an existing district and breaking it in two doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should charge money for.

 

[acluewithout]

Commercial Hubs feel pretty useless...

The Commercial Hub District seems fine. It’s sort of not as good as the Harbour, but I think that’s balanced out by the harder research path and placement requirements for the Harbour.

I think the problem is that the Bank and Stock Exchange are such lacklustre buildings, particularly when Gold is already so plentiful in the game.

 

[Sostratus]

I want military and civillian harbors and aerodomes separated. Navy harbor and trade harbor, and cvillian airport and military air base.

This would likely be better achieved by giving building choices for t2 or t3 rather than entirely split districts. (In the harbor case, I imagine any coastal city would want the lighthouse.)

I've long wanted the Harbor to be an on-water replacement for the entertainment district, with a separate Naval Base district to cover the military aspects of the current Harbor. The way current Harbor and Commercial Hub competes for the trade route yet can both be build in the same city is a real thorn in my eye.

I hope in civ7 they can resurrect an aspect of civ:BE if they want to keep the trade route limit tied to something you can make more of - specifically, the idea that a city could only accommodate a limited number of trade routes. So in this case, the trade route slot could come from either district, or a city center "trade depot," or whatever we want, but the CH and harbor could both add trade route capacity to the city. By cleverly tying things which boost trade route yields to those which boost trade route capacity for a city, you would naturally develop trading hubs in your empire. This naturally opens the door for true trade economic strategies, and for extra historical realism, things like commercial hub adjacency could itself play a role in trade route yield. Now you have a geographic case for trading hubs!

particularly when Gold is already so plentiful in the game.

My one wish for NFP that i know I won't get, is to balance the game such that gold is something you have to work for.
I am sick and tired of Sid Meier's Civilization: Rumpelstiltskin where we just conjure endless gold out of nowhere!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The Commercial Hub District seems fine. It’s sort of not as good as the Harbour, but I think that’s balanced out by the harder research path and placement requirements for the Harbour.

I think the problem is that the Bank and Stock Exchange are such lacklustre buildings, particularly when Gold is already so plentiful in the game.

I think if corporations were to be added it would help those buildings, as in at least the bank be required to found one.

 

[kaspergm]

My one wish for NFP that i know I won't get, is to balance the game such that gold is something you have to work for.
I am sick and tired of Sid Meier's Civilization: Rumpelstiltskin where we just conjure endless gold out of nowhere!

Can you try to elaborate a bit on this point? I see it mentioned a lot, but I don't find gold to be particularly plentiful in the first half of the game. Maybe it's because I usually use my traders for internal routes to get the food and production, there may be some effect of mods also (although I don't think I use any that particularly cut gold, but I do use some that effect tile yields), but in most game, I find myself really short on gold around classical-medieval era, where costly upgrades like Archers into Crossbows and Swords into Muskets really take their toll. Things do turn around in second half of game, where some weird design choices skew things - like upgrades actually getting cheaper in late game, and the stupid democracy bonus that let's you use all your trade routes externally and at the same time give you even more food and production than your internal routes give - but if I don't build commercial hubs, I don't think of gold as particularly plentiful until that point.

 

[Sostratus]

Can you try to elaborate a bit on this point? I see it mentioned a lot, but I don't find gold to be particularly plentiful in the first half of the game.

Certainly, you can coax yourself into a bit of a budget snafu early by pumping out those classical units. That's not really the issue though, this is:

but if I don't build commercial hubs, I don't think of gold as particularly plentiful until that point

Commercial hubs give you so much money that simply possessing them everywhere [which is explicitly encouraged due to being the only way to get traders for non coastal towns] means you will be swimming in piles of money for the rest of the game, barring anything too crazy. It's just such a feast/famine thing.
Does anyone worry about the gold upkeep of a tank or battleship? How many people can name the upkeep on a stadium? Can anyone name a time they didnt construct a district or building because of the gold maintenance?
Even though maintenance costs keep rising linearly all game, we quickly start generating exponentially more money, especially if you throw down the free market card. This is without even resorting to harbors, although they tend to be pretty chill until seaports.
I want players to value gold income, and really want to ensure they can leverage strong international trade. That way, trade routes matter and cutting trade routes matters even more.

When i get to later game I can just watch my income rise from +200 to +1,000 without really consciously doing anything. I can't even explain where that much money comes from. It just shows up. (i tend to exclusively run internal routes all game, 1 per city)

 

[kaspergm]

Commercial hubs give you so much money that simply possessing them everywhere [which is explicitly encouraged due to being the only way to get traders for non coastal towns] means you will be swimming in piles of money for the rest of the game, barring anything too crazy. It's just such a feast/famine thing.

Well ok, it was just that someone earlier in the thread seemed to imply that Commercial Hubs were not worth building because money was so plentiful, and I feel that's not my experience. But I do agree once you got Commercial Hubs and Markets up and runnig, once many of the luxury resources get their gold yields boosted mid-game, and once I start running international trade routes, Gold is not much of an issue.

I do feel gold balance kind of is in a strange place in-between, however. Because like you mention, passive gold drops like unit, building or district maintenance is never much of an issue, certainly not to the extent that it limits anything post Medieval. On the other hand, gold costs for rush-buying things generally just seems massive. Like once we hit mid-game or late-game, we're talking 1500-2000 gold to rush buy a unit or a building. Now maybe I don't optimize things, but my GPT from Industrial and onwards usually hovers around 200-300 GPT, which is enough to not leave me wanting, but not enough for me to rush-buy a lot of stuff without feeling the cut.

Of course it's a general issue with the game balance that you can just upgrade your units all the way from ancient to future era for much less gold than the price of buying a new one.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Commercial Hubs feel pretty useless when you can build a Harbor instead

Aside from the fact that CH gives you Great Merchants, which are actually useful, while Harbors give you Great Admirals, which are almost entirely useless unless you're warring on sea or get the Ironclad or gold one..

Also, CH adjacency is often higher in the late game with district triangles.

Part of the problem is that gold is too easy to come by throughout most of the game, and it's never felt like a limiting factor for me when building military units.

Gold is used to rushbuy, which is used to snowball. Gold gets you ahead quick, it's meaningfully different from production in that regard. One can never have too much gold, just like you wouldn't say "well production is plentyful, I have enough production, might just stop, unless you're roleplaying or not trying to win.

It doesn't really matter that gold is plentiful, after all it is the price of buildings and units that determine how much your gold is worth. Since a Spaceport is 7200 Gold and a late-game Great Scientist is something like 20,000 Gold, I am pretty happy that Gold is easy to come by.

I think the problem is more seeing gold as just something to fuel your military/expenses with. Then again I'm the kind of player who gets angry when people have 20,000 Gold in their treasury and say "welp there's nothing to buy" so maybe this discussion ain't good for my health

 

[acluewithout]

As I’ve said, I think the balance between CHs and Harbours is about right. CHs have less adjacencies (indeed, much less unless you build them in Cities with Harbours) but I think that’s about right. You’re really only building them because you can’t find something better to build. But their advantage is that they’re easy to unlock and place versus eg Harbours.

I’m not sure Great Merchants are that much better than Great Admirals post patch, but they certainly have a different flavour.

Most of my Gold just comes from trade deals, trade routes and Improvements. Envoys also give a lot of Gold. You really don’t need Districts for Gold. Even then, I’ll usually build two or three Harbour CH triangles in a game although I know it’s not meta. Even that is usually crazy amounts of Gold.

There is a lot of Gold in the game and no real need for it beyond just rush buying stuff (which is somewhat pointless because I can chop stuff faster) or unit upgrades (which can be discounted). Even if you are rush buying, the reality is still that your empire isn’t really dependent or constrained by your Gold economy. Maintenance never bites. It’s never something I worry about. At worse, I might just accumulate Gold slower than I would have liked.

I think Gold and also Faith might have worked better if you didn’t really accumulate them for purchasing things, and instead your net rate of Gold and Faith Generation had some more overall impact on your economy, eg “Rich Countries” are productive. But Civ has gone with a filling the bucket model for these resources, so we are where we are.

Hopefully one of the Patches will make Maintenance a bit more challenging and dynamic (some sort of variable Maintenance would be fun) and or a Game Mode will make Empire Management more interesting. Fingers crossed.

 

[Victoria]

Legal district?
Police station
Courthouse
Prison

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

- Rail yard or transport hub?

- I have never, ever had a problem with gold in Civ 6. They ought to do something to make the Commerce district more interesting, or scrap it, and consolidate the harbor with it.

 

[tedhebert]

Also, CH adjacency is often higher in the late game with district triangles.

I kind of disagree there ! To me, the CH NEEDS the triangle aspect to even compare to most harbour adjacency. I agree with the part about GM being more interesting than GA, but not
this. Plus... there's no equivalent to Shipyard in the CH.

Now, back to topic :

I wonder if a Mass Transit District would make sense ?
- Buses: Allows for the 4th ring to become available for city exploitation
- Train Station: make connecting hubs for railroads, give them +1/+2 movement between connecting cities ans Gold bonuses (and make railroads useful for SOMETHING)
- Subways and Tramways: Lower environmental imprint (from buses) + Amenity bonuses

 

[bengalryan9]

Legal district?
Police station
Courthouse
Prison

I think something like this fits with what we've seen in previous civ games, but I'm not sure what these building would actually do in civ 6 since corruption isn't an issue.

I guess they could provide loyalty boosts in cities they are built... maybe they'd be worth building in newly captured cities if they were really cheap and quick to build, with the tradeoff being that they do take up a district spot that could be used for something else. But even then, how many cities would really need three buildings buffing their loyalty?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think something like this fits with what we've seen in previous civ games, but I'm not sure what these building would actually do in civ 6 since corruption isn't an issue.

It could solve Partisan issues and help with counter spying, as in not needing so many spies to stay in your cities.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I think something like this fits with what we've seen in previous civ games, but I'm not sure what these building would actually do in civ 6 since corruption isn't an issue.

I guess they could provide loyalty boosts in cities they are built... maybe they'd be worth building in newly captured cities if they were really cheap and quick to build, with the tradeoff being that they do take up a district spot that could be used for something else. But even then, how many cities would really need three buildings buffing their loyalty?

I would put the courthouse for the first tier building.

Also, wouldn't it be awesome, instead of fighting against pandemics, players were encouraged to fight against political corruption? I can't imagine any elegant way to implement it, but if games like VI are trying to surreptitiously educate and guide players toward important social issues, I would love for some kind of political equivalent of "Pandemic."

 

[criZp]

I wonder if a Mass Transit District would make sense ?
- Buses: Allows for the 4th ring to become available for city exploitation
- Train Station: make connecting hubs for railroads, give them +1/+2 movement between connecting cities ans Gold bonuses (and make railroads useful for SOMETHING)
- Subways and Tramways: Lower environmental imprint (from buses) + Amenity bonuses

Sounds mechanically cool but I don't know why mass transportation would be concentrated in one city district

 

[tedhebert]

Sounds mechanically cool but I don't know why mass transportation would be concentrated in one city district

Well... think of it as Central Station ???