New First Look Video: Builders

[kaspergm]

Actually, should be at least two eurekas, maybe more. Only one eureka needs you to found a coastal city, but don't seems that is the tech that gives the harbor. And that tech, and maybe a few others before it, are likely to need naval related actions (like building ships, etc). But the only way to do that before getting the tech needed for building the harbor district is with a coastal city.

Valid point. I think the tech that gives the harbor is called Celestial Navigation and is likely to be a medieval or renaissance era tech, which means it's a good way into the tech tree. We know there's also a tech that requires 2 galleys as it's eureka, which is also an early tech according to what was said in one of the first videos.

 

[King Jason]

Valid point. I think the tech that gives the harbor is called Celestial Navigation and is likely to be a medieval or renaissance era tech, which means it's a good way into the tech tree. We know there's also a tech that requires 2 galleys as it's eureka, which is also an early tech according to what was said in one of the first videos.

Celestial Navigation is a classical tech. In history it's been in use since Antiquity, and if you take any ques from Civ5, the techs go;

Ancient - Sailing (workboat, trireme, fish nets)
Classical - Optics (Lighthouse, Great Lighthouse, Disembark)
Medieval - Compass (Galleas, Harbor, +1 trade route)

Yet, if you take ques from civ4 then it goes

Ancient - Fishing (Fishing boats)
Ancient - Sailing (Lighthouse, GL, Trireme)
Classical - Compass (Harbor)

So all that's really happening is that the Lighthouse and Harbor are swapping spots in the tech tree (since lighthouses are built in harbor districts) and I imagine civ6 goes;

Ancient - Sailing
Ancient/Classical - Celestial Navigation (harbor district)
Classical - Naval Tech (lighthouse, GL)

 

[kaspergm]

Celestial Navigation is a classical tech.

Do we know that? It sounds like more a re-name of the Civ5 Astronomy tech (which arguably was a horrible name, because Astronomy had been around for ages by then). That was renaissance era. Harbor in Civ5 didn't come before medieval era.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Do we know that? It sounds like more a re-name of the Civ5 Astronomy tech (which arguably was a horrible name, because Astronomy had been around for ages by then). That was renaissance era. Harbor in Civ5 didn't come before medieval era.

Well given that Optics was both a cLassical (Civ 5) and Medieval (Civ 4) tech, who knows

However, the OP of the post you're quoting seems to refer the more "logical" placement of the tech because the idea of Celestial Navigation seems to be historically a classical tech (figures)

So who knows.

 

[King Jason]

Do we know that? It sounds like more a re-name of the Civ5 Astronomy tech (which arguably was a horrible name, because Astronomy had been around for ages by then). That was renaissance era. Harbor in Civ5 didn't come before medieval era.

However, the OP of the post you're quoting seems to refer the more "logical" placement of the tech because the idea of Celestial Navigation seems to be historically a classical tech (figures).

No, my logic combines the fact that Celestial Navigation is the earliest form of navigation apart from keeping sight of the shore, with the fact that Harbors are an ancient building 90% of the time in the civ series. As usual, civ5 was the exception. It's pattern recognition. That - and the current information on the Colossus world wonder tells us that it needs to be near a harbor. I doubt the Colossus is a mid-game wonder in civ5. Astronomy wouldn't make sense because typically the technology that enables inter-ocean travel tends to enhance the trade potential of the harbor, not unlock it; as was the case in civs 3, 4, and 5.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

No, my logic combines the fact that Celestial Navigation is the earliest form of navigation apart from keeping sight of the shore, with the fact that Harbors are an ancient building 90% of the time in the civ series. As usual, civ5 was the exception. It's pattern recognition. That - and the current information on the Colossus world wonder tells us that it needs to be near a harbor. I doubt the Colossus is a mid-game wonder in civ5. Astronomy wouldn't make sense because typically the technology that enables inter-ocean travel tends to enhance the trade potential of the harbor, not unlock it; as was the case in civs 3, 4, and 5.

Celestial Navigation sounds like a Ancient/Classical tech to me so where did this "mid-game wonder" come from?

Colossus is unlocked at Metal Casting in Civ 4 and Iron Working in Civ 5. both Classical Techs.

 

[King Jason]

Kaspergm thinks Celestial Navigation is a midgame tech. I'm trying to explain why that's very likely not the case.

Edit: Civ5 was supposed to say civ6 in your quote. In civ6, the colossus needs to be built near a harbor. Which means Harbors are ancient or classical. So, given the consolidated tech tree, my guess is that Celestial Navigation comes directly after Sailing. Then whatever technology gives lighthouses/great lighthouse.

If I were to speculate further beyond that, based solely on past iterations and the knowledge that the tech tree has been consolidated; It's possible the next tech would be the Caravel/Ocean fairing tech, then after that the Tech that provides Frigates and Shipyards, the 2nd district building.

That actually keeps 5 Naval techs all the way up to the end of the renaissance, which is the same amount as civ5. If they try to consolidate it any further then I'd suggest that there isn't a "lighthouse/great lighthouse" Tech and the first building in the district is unlocked at the same time as the district itself. So Celestial Navigation would unlock both the Harbor and the Lighthouse - The great Lighthouse either being unlocked there as well, or through a civic.