New Game Options: Leaderhead Levelups and No Positive Traits on Game Start

[Thunderbrd]

A couple of ideas for names based on Civ4.

Upgrade. We upgrade our units, so we upgrade our leader.

Improvement. We build improvements on the terrain, so do we improve our leader.

Development. (Slightly more of a stretch) As we develop our technology, so do we develop our leader.

Otherwise this sounds very interesting.

Upgrade: Leader Upgrades doesn't sound bad but can be a little misleading. When units upgrade, they change to a whole new unit type so one might be thinking we mean the leader is changing to a new leader entirely.

Improvement: Leader Improvements... hmm... Might be taken a bit vague like your leaders will have new attributes (which they sorta do... I dunno)

Development: Developing Leaders - I kinda like that, perhaps in part because it IS a bit more of a 'stretch' it doesn't carry as many other ways to presume what it means.

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

Well, you could (?) put in actually changing the leader based on what Culture Wonders the player has built. Then it could be a true upgrade, along with the new traits. On the other hand, adding a new trait could be almost like having an all new leader just on it's own, even without the name or picture changing. Heck, the player can change his/her leader name at will anyway, so it's really just the picture. Aside from the traits anyway.

Perhaps not so much Leader Improvements as Improved Leader.

Development can also refer to Culture and just building the nation in general.

Besides, whatever it's called, while persons one and two will understand it fine , person three will misinterpret and person four will be anyway, so use what you like.

 

[imtheman]

this is a cool addition to see after being away from the game for a month. has it been fixed so can one can actually reach 100 million culture now then, it doesn't go negative when it overflows at 16.7 million anymore?

 

[Thunderbrd]

this is a cool addition to see after being away from the game for a month. has it been fixed so can one can actually reach 100 million culture now then, it doesn't go negative when it overflows at 16.7 million anymore?

Good question. I believe it was but I'll have to ask Koshling to make sure.

 

[ls612]

Good question. I believe it was but I'll have to ask Koshling to make sure.

I pmed back Koshling about that and one of my concerns is that for Eternity for those numbers to scale right the highest culture threshold would have to be 2 billion. That is uncomfortably close to the limit for 32 bit int datatype variables, so internally the functions may need to use the long or double datatypes.

 

[Thunderbrd]

yeah... he got back to me on that too. We'll just have to keep that in mind. I may initiate a new long int to address that because if we really like the way this system works off national culture level, I may seek to include influence driven war rewards in the calculation as well and that would be an appropriate time to establish a new long int variable to compile both the culture earned by cities and other sources.

Oh... and I've decided upon Developing Leaders for the option name. Is that sufficient for the moniker monitors among us?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Gah! Just got my first new trait for my leader and all my units lost their promotions and can't get them back! Should have saved

BTW a hover over on the traits would be nice.

 

[strategyonly]

Gah! Just got my first new trait for my leader and all my units lost their promotions and can't get them back! Should have saved

BTW a hover over on the traits would be nice.

You mean YOU dont have your config.ini set on every turn

 

[BlueGenie]

Doesn't help currently. Getting a new trait just does that, makes units lose promotions and can not get as many back as they had previously. Thunderbrd is looking into it I think he stated somewhere.

Cheers

 

[Thunderbrd]

Gah! Just got my first new trait for my leader and all my units lost their promotions and can't get them back! Should have saved

BTW a hover over on the traits would be nice.

AH HAH! So THAT'S why you've all been losing promos eh? (Well its part of that anyhow...) That let's me know exactly where my problem is here! Thanks! I'll have a fix tomorrow on that then - I promise!

As for a hoverover - I struggled mightily to figure out how to generate one. Either hoverover help popups are called in python or... and I shudder to think... its done via the core. Almost all the places where this process seems to begin in the code reports to the core so we may find it impossible. However, I was hoping to still figure out a way to link a right click to the pedia listing.

Also, since you're the python expert, I was hoping you might be able to help me with the buttons in the pedia. Apparently they are being called to specific and direct art calls but I don't think that's being handled in the dll. If you could help me to pull the button on the traits there, that'd be awesome!

Anyhow, yeah, the mystery of the missing promos is solved and I just need some time to rethink how I'm going to route around it. In short, it involves making a check for any promotion that's handed out by traits and if you don't have that trait it removes it from the unit. My oversight was in the way our traits currently are, Combat I is handed out by a trait (or two). So it's removing that, and by so doing, finding you no longer qualify for any of the Combats above it. Ugh. This process was considered necessary because units should lose whatever promos they picked up from any negative trait that's been selected for removal. So I just need to think about how I can remove JUST those safely... Unfortunately, with a promo like Combat I being handed out by a negative trait, that's going to be far more tricky than I realized!

 

[strategyonly]

@ TB
Good for you finding this out, as DH said its a pain in the BUTT here losing those GOOD promotions and some you are NOT getting them back, (well without cheating) and i won't do that. (In a regular game)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

As for a hoverover - I struggled mightily to figure out how to generate one. Either hoverover help popups are called in python or... and I shudder to think... its done via the core. Almost all the places where this process seems to begin in the code reports to the core so we may find it impossible. However, I was hoping to still figure out a way to link a right click to the pedia listing.

The build popup for cities that have no current production that is shown from the dll has hover over perhaps you can reuse that?

Also, since you're the python expert, I was hoping you might be able to help me with the buttons in the pedia. Apparently they are being called to specific and direct art calls but I don't think that's being handled in the dll. If you could help me to pull the button on the traits there, that'd be awesome!

Give me some time to figure out what it is that it is that you are asking and I'll get back to you.

Edit

... it involves making a check for any promotion that's handed out by traits and if you don't have that trait it removes it from the unit. ...

Unfortunately lots of promotions are given by buildings like the Woodsman ones. Then there are those given by events like combat 1 to scouts. You may need to look at special promotions for the traits to give out which are or prerequisites for latter promos eg Combat II requires Combat I or Combat I(trait).

 

[Thunderbrd]

The build popup for cities that have no current production that is shown from the dll has hover over perhaps you can reuse that?

Well... ok, I still have some more research before I give up on that but from what I can tell, initiating a NEW type of popup is something I may not be able to do from the dll. Its the same problem we have with trying to find the dimensions and other setup details on those help pops - they seem to be part of the core, and that includes the initial call to send them to the screen at all. I reworked the traits text stuff to the point that if I could find the way to send a new help popup it could be done but I just haven't been able to find that key spot. I'll ask in the main forum and see if I can get some insight from the larger CFC modding pool though. And I'll again try to take a closer look at the build popup and see if there's something I may have missed.

Give me some time to figure out what it is that it is that you are asking and I'll get back to you.

Might help to understand what I'm asking for if you open the pedia and take a look at a trait entry. It has a button there but its a direct call to some specified art somewhere and not based on a call to the trait's button as (now) defined under the trait xml.

EditUnfortunately lots of promotions are given by buildings like the Woodsman ones. Then there are those given by events like combat 1 to scouts. You may need to look at special promotions for the traits to give out which are or prerequisites for latter promos eg Combat II requires Combat I or Combat I(trait).

Yeah. When I was developing this I was blinded into thinking we were only going to have special promotions named for their trait being handed out by traits and forgot to consider the ramifications of the current setup still having general pool promos being awarded by traits now. I'm going to have to work around it with an understanding that the check won't work quite correctly until we have reworked the promos so that they have that specific design purpose of being only for their trait. I'll be adding a bool to the promo infos to designate that this promo is a trait promo and seek to validate only those.

 

[BlueGenie]

Unless you solve it by having Traits giving promotions add a Traits Special Building in every City that is built in OR stay over in the city (was it bApplyPromotionOnMove? tag, well, some tag anyway).

For me that would be more logical.
1) A Unit that has some promotion from a previous Trait will not really just lose the Promotion just like that. So I think old units should keep old promotions.
2) Old units that already have the "free promo" should not get another one for free either. They have already undergone whatever training needed for the promotion and won't "go back to learn" it again. Tough luck but those units will not get a free promotion.
3) Old units that do NOT have the new Trait Promotion will get it by staying over in any City, thus benefiting from their leaders development. This will encourage "saving" promos and not taking certain promotions if planning on a Trait that gives a free Promo.
4) Any new units being built will get the Promo. If it comes from the building or from the Trait makes no real difference.

This way units do not have to lose any promotions when a new Trait is being selected. It might require the player to know about any promotions from a Trait, or check it up, but old units carefully nourished and promoted will not suddenly be left as less than they were.

Cheers

 

[Thunderbrd]

Unless you solve it by having Traits giving promotions add a Traits Special Building in every City that is built in OR stay over in the city (was it bApplyPromotionOnMove? tag, well, some tag anyway).

For me that would be more logical.
1) A Unit that has some promotion from a previous Trait will not really just lose the Promotion just like that. So I think old units should keep old promotions.
2) Old units that already have the "free promo" should not get another one for free either. They have already undergone whatever training needed for the promotion and won't "go back to learn" it again. Tough luck but those units will not get a free promotion.
3) Old units that do NOT have the new Trait Promotion will get it by staying over in any City, thus benefiting from their leaders development. This will encourage "saving" promos and not taking certain promotions if planning on a Trait that gives a free Promo.
4) Any new units being built will get the Promo. If it comes from the building or from the Trait makes no real difference.

This way units do not have to lose any promotions when a new Trait is being selected. It might require the player to know about any promotions from a Trait, or check it up, but old units carefully nourished and promoted will not suddenly be left as less than they were.

Cheers

You're thinking of this from the perspective of the potentially removed promotion being a positive thing. It's more commonly about trying to ease up on the negative ones (the current proposed rework presents some seriously penalizing promos on negative traits.) There's no need to involve a building in any of this. I just need to fix this filtering code.

 

[BlueGenie]

Noo, I'm thinking out of the perspective of units "unlearning" things, which I see no reason to incorporate regardless of where that promotion came from.

Cheers

 

[Thunderbrd]

I don't want to force players to scrap and rebuild their current armies when they lose a trait that was giving each of their units something along the lines of -20% attack, -10% defense!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well... ok, I still have some more research before I give up on that but from what I can tell, initiating a NEW type of popup is something I may not be able to do from the dll. Its the same problem we have with trying to find the dimensions and other setup details on those help pops - they seem to be part of the core, and that includes the initial call to send them to the screen at all. I reworked the traits text stuff to the point that if I could find the way to send a new help popup it could be done but I just haven't been able to find that key spot. I'll ask in the main forum and see if I can get some insight from the larger CFC modding pool though. And I'll again try to take a closer look at the build popup and see if there's something I may have missed.

So the popup is done in python?

Might help to understand what I'm asking for if you open the pedia and take a look at a trait entry. It has a button there but its a direct call to some specified art somewhere and not based on a call to the trait's button as (now) defined under the trait xml.

I did look but I did not see. Now I know what you want.

 

[Thunderbrd]

So the popup is done in python?



I did look but I did not see. Now I know what you want.

The popup MAY be done in python... perhaps you can find it there somewhere. If so, I can guide you to the proper call in the dll perhaps. But I suspect its done in the core exe that we can't mess with and that's a bad thing if it is.

You DO know what I want there now? Or should I grab a screenie to help here?

 

[BlueGenie]

No, that's true enough Thunderbrd, that it is. I didn't think of those kinds of promotions.

Cheers