New Game Speeds

[JosEPh_II]

When I play with any of the trait options on I get runaway Research. Playing with No Traits at all including no Developing Leaders gives the AI a chance.

Kind of have to agree with this assessment.

 

[Taxman66]

V37 + Latest Patch
Continuation of same game previously posted

Reached Medieval on Turn 678/3353 (1884 BC) 20.2% of the way through the game.
Have 20 cities, making 1,000gp/turn
Have x2.5 almost x3 the score of best neighboring AI
Not sure if I'll keep playing.
*Note did use WB to give me a subdued elephant so I could build tamed elephants (not that I used many elephant units in the wars, mostly Tengri enhanced mounted uu and siege) and to kill a vulture that was stuck and never moved from on top of a volcano.

When I had 15 cities the weaker AI (4 cities) decided to declare war on me, when I moved 25% of my screening force out of his vision (to go clear some barbs). So for his stupidity, and the annoyance factor, I decided to take his city that had access to a resource I didn't have (rubies), I took another city of his to wall him off. Really, really dumb decision by the AI to attack me.

During the above war the other AI, which could/should have been a real threat, also declared war on me. After some fighting in my terrain (but not in my cities) and getting the 1st war in order, I razed one of his cities and took another (with marble access).

I offered peace to both, because I didn't want to be alone until ocean travel. Somehow made a mistake in that I'm not getting the marble due to too much culture influence. Said city only has like 3 tiles around it and no 2nd ring except where influenced from my own original city. The culture influence around this seems screwy. Also he drastically reduced the city size somehow as I was sieging it (drafting units maybe?).

The AIs (though one did wipe out a 3rd AI long ago) were never a real threat to me because they invested a huge amount into armies of enforcers (though they do like have a few arsonists) which they never did anything with.

The arsonists are a tad annoying. I can't seem to find a unit with a native/built in counter to throwing units. I had to pretty much range attack them a bit (catapults, dedicated archery bombard and ballista) and then hit them with strong mounted (often unique) units.

 

[raxo2222]

Reaching Reneissance in 500 AD is feature not bug.

First of all civ players are immortal leaders with ultra long term planning skills unlike real life leaders
Second, I heard if christinity wasn't so hardcore in Medieval and Greece/Rome wasn't destroyed, we would have reneissance 500 - 1000 years earlier.
I'm half joking here.

To simulate real life progression we would have some more features, that drag down research rate.
Currently there is no difference, if you are researching controlled fire, plasma or quantum vacuum collapse - tech in deep past, cotemporary and in deep future.
Civics are different, buildings are different, but research rate is static, until you add new building or change civic.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Because Everybody likes to play with an advantage the base line Research modifier's are stunted. So I will probably increase them again till people start squealing they are Too Tough. Same with Gold modifier and inflation modifier. I suppose I really need to be rather vicious with this, thumb screws and all!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Research rate is not static. If it was you would not need to build all those research buildings.

@Joe, I am finding research too fast but gold to low. As I have said elsewhere I can build up to 5 new units in the time it takes me to get enough money to upgrade one of the old to the new. Science is at 60-70%.

 

[raxo2222]

Research rate is not static. If it was you would not need to build all those research buildings.

@Joe, I am finding research too fast but gold to low. As I have said elsewhere I can build up to 5 new units in the time it takes me to get enough money to upgrade one of the old to the new. Science is at 60-70%.

I meant mostly static when excluding influence of buildings, commerce, and civics.

It would be more dynamic if there were events, that changed research rate for long time.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Research rate is not static. If it was you would not need to build all those research buildings.

@Joe, I am finding research too fast but gold to low. As I have said elsewhere I can build up to 5 new units in the time it takes me to get enough money to upgrade one of the old to the new. Science is at 60-70%.

Noted.

And research is not was not static it was a ladder type effect (a hierarchy on modifiers in different files). Different research modifiers from a multitude of xml files all contributed to climbing that ladder. I had it just about all figured out (when and where to tweak) when the "formula" was changed for the "new math". This moved rungs around, took some out, and made ones that used to be very important not so much now, the rungs order was changed to be more elegant. Basically simplified and more rigid. Of course % modifiers can be easily overdone if the whole system is not considered.

I meant mostly static when excluding influence of buildings, commerce, and civics.

It would be more dynamic if there were events, that changed research rate for long time.

Nah, don't think so.

 

[mosesj]

Is there any way to reduce the overal education of a city? That might help stunt growth a little bit if you can tweak those modifiers to make it considerably harder to keep a well educated population

 

[tmv]

First of all civ players are immortal leaders with ultra long term planning skills unlike real life leaders
Second, I heard if christinity wasn't so hardcore in Medieval and Greece/Rome wasn't destroyed, we would have reneissance 500 - 1000 years earlier.
I'm half joking here.

Third, good luck getting a Paleontology Lab to help you with Metamaterials research in Real Life (and regarding Christianity: Good luck finding any religion or worldview before Renaissance that actually supported scientific progress - certainly not the ancient religions with their millennia of statism).

 

[raxo2222]

Third, good luck getting a Paleontology Lab to help you with Metamaterials research in Real Life (and regarding Christianity: Good luck finding any religion or worldview before Renaissance that actually supported scientific progress - certainly not the ancient religions with their millennia of statism).

Well whole game is like this - I could create building, that gives you research bonus from start of game till end of game.
Maybe later there could be different technology groups, and certian buildings would boost research of certian technologies.
and I didn't say, that religion/worldview were actually supportive for research. I meant that one of them could be more neutral and other be actively slowing down research.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Toffer90 ,

Remind me again how the iResearchPercent found in the EraInfos file is supposed to work. And is the BBAI iTechCostModifer still actually working?

 

[Toffer90]

Remind me again how the iResearchPercent found in the EraInfos file is supposed to work. And is the BBAI iTechCostModifer still actually working?

iTechCostModifier, change the base cost of all techs within an era regardless of what era any players are in, it never stopped working.
So the prehistoric era iTechCostModifier will affect the base cost of:

• All Prehistoric techs​

The Ancient era iTechCostModifier will affect the base cost of

• All Ancient techs​

etc.

iResearchPercent, change the cost of all techs in the game for the player that are inside the era.
So the prehistoric era iResearchPercent will affect the cost of:

• All prehistoric techs
• Sedentary lifestyle tech
• (It also affects the cost of all the later techs, but this is effectively a lie as another era iResearchPercent will take over at Sedentary Lifestyle.)​

When a player reach Ancient era the iResearchPercent from that era will take over and it will affect the cost of:

• All prehistoric & Ancient Techs.
• Classical lifestyle tech.
• (It also affects the cost of all the later techs, but this is effectively a lie as another era iResearchPercent will take over at Classical Lifestyle.)​

Etc. ( Edit: Seems like it is only the starting era value that is used regardless of what era the player is currently in. )

The values of the tags and defines listed below have been normalized for simplicity, meaning that there won't be any divided by 100 or +/- 1 in the equations.

[Cumulative Tech Modifier] = 1 + ( iResearchPercent WorldInfo ) + ( iResearchPercent EraInfo ) + ( iResearchPercent HandicapInfo ) + ( iBeelineStingsTechCostModifier EraInfo )
[Base tech cost] = ( iCost TechInfo ) x ( TECH_COST_MODIFIER ) x ( iTechCostModifier EraInfo, depends on what era the tech is in )

[Tech Cost] = [Base tech cost] x [Cumulative Tech Modifier] x ( iResearchPercent GamespeedInfo ) x ( TECH_COST_EXTRA_TEAM_MEMBER_MODIFIER )

 

[lightning551]

Finally got back to playing again. Newest game is in monarch. Speed I’m not sure. Its the one with a little over 3000 turns. 10 civs at start and barbarian civilizations are turned on.
Tech diffusion and win for losing are on. Start as minor civs is off.
I'm playing as America with Washington as the leader.

I started on a small island barely larger then my city’s border. 2 more islands can be reached by coastal water but so far I’ve had no contact with other civs.
I finished researching tribal in 18760BC
In 15778 I got a notification that the first civilization had reached sedentary lifestyle. I'm still a long way off.
I have no clue what the situation is outside of my islands and have a feeling I wont for some time yet.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Finally got back to playing again. Newest game is in monarch. Speed I’m not sure. Its the one with a little over 3000 turns. 10 civs at start and barbarian civilizations are turned on.
Tech diffusion and win for losing are on. Start as minor civs is off.
I'm playing as America with Washington as the leader.

I started on a small island barely larger then my city’s border. 2 more islands can be reached by coastal water but so far I’ve had no contact with other civs.
I finished researching tribal in 18760BC
In 15778 I got a notification that the first civilization had reached sedentary lifestyle. I'm still a long way off.
I have no clue what the situation is outside of my islands and have a feeling I wont for some time yet.

Marathon Game speed is ~3350 turns.

What is the map size and type?

 

[lightning551]

Marathon Game speed is ~3350 turns.

What is the map size and type?

Its marathon then. Sorry I just keep forgetting what the speeds are called.
Map is perfect world f2. Size is standard with normal sea level.

 

[lightning551]

Game goes fast with no other civs around. lol
I reached the ancient era in 7684BC with 3 cities. I did found mali across the sea from me which is giving me the boost in tech. They are currently researching copper work.

 

[Noriad2]

A few days ago I updated to the latest SVN and started a Deity/nightmare game. Large map/snail speed/tech diffusion on. Size Matters off because there are too many exploits in that. Played Smoke Jaguar: agressive/industrious/hunter-gatherer.

I also decided on one "house rule": no selling units to the AI (not even if the AI asks for it) since the AI overvalues units to a ridiculous degree, making it easy to rush through the tech tree just by building and selling workers.

Initial game went well. Scouted a bit, settled close to another AI, decent location with river/hills/caves. Built several early wonders, then conquered the neighbouring city after I got to barter. By the time I got to Mining and Caste System I had 4 cities, and a slightly positive cash flow with 100% tech and no cities on Build Wealth.
I then conquered a fifth city, and after deleting my excess units and maintain enough police units to keep crime in the mild positives, I was able to break even with 100% tech and 2 of 5 cities on build wealth. So far things were looking good.

However, after that my game stagnated and my financial situation deteriorated. By the time I reached writing/bronze working/monarchy I had to put 3 or 4 cities out of 5 on build wealth to break even. However, unlike a few months ago, despotism/monarchy would worsen my financial situation instead of bettering it. So I was forced to stay on tribalism. And as the AI got stronger I had to maintain a bigger military, which is expensive as each unit costs 6 in upkeep.

So I slugged on, trading resources for techs, researching stuff myself also. But every time my money increased, inflation and increased unit costs would eat up the extra cash. I reached mid-classical, and after building courthouses (-25% upkeep) everywhere I STILL had only 5 cities, of which three were on build wealth.
These are good, large cities in good locations, but my game is stagnating heavily as I am financially unable to expand. Meanwhile the Greeks are at 30 cities, have one (small) vassal, and have researched gunpowder (early renaissance). Oh and one of my enemies just bribed these Greeks into declaring war on me. Luckily they are on the other side of the planet.

Looking at my financial report, l see:
Unit cost 81
Unit supply 0
City maintenance 507
Civic upkeep 444
Inflation 474
total expenses 1506

And crime is between -146 and +50.

In other words, I'm stuck on 5 cities already for an age and a half, and probably for the forseeable future.

So far I have neglected education, as initial penalties are mild and not worth the 6/unit for ineffective educators. Now that I have access to better educators with better promotions, I started to build some, and may get 2 or 3 cities on positive education levels in many turns, as it takes a lot of time to come back from low education. That would give me some more hammers and commerce, but I doubt it will make me financially solvent without cities building wealth.

A few months ago I tried out deity/nightmare and considered it hard but winneable. I was at lower tech level and had 17 cities, half of which were building wealth. Now I wonder if it is still winnable, as I seem to be financially unable to expand beyond 5 cities. I fear that if I take/build another city all my production would be used up for upkeep cost. I'll continue this game for a while to see how it develops.

 

[Noriad2]

Inflation is at 46%. Question: does inflation increase automatically or does my excessive use of Build Wealth have something to do with that? I have Advanced Economy off.

 

[Toffer90]

Inflation is at 46%. Question: does inflation increase automatically or does my excessive use of Build Wealth have something to do with that?

Yes to both, it increases every turn and when spending money on something outside ordinary per turn expenses.
I hate the per turn increase.
Should rather be a per turn decrease (deflation), and a stronger inflation impact when spending money than what it currently is.

Edit: I read "build wealth" as "hurry production", my bad. Build wealth shouldn't increase inflation.

 

[Noriad2]

Yes to both, it increases every turn and when spending money on something outside ordinary per turn expenses.
I hate the per turn increase.
Should rather be a per turn decrease (deflation), and a stronger inflation impact when spending money than what it currently is.

I'm not spending any money (as in hurry production), I just build wealth to keep from going bankrupt. Does that count too?