New Growth Curve (v1.2)

[CivMD]

NOTE: Verified and obtained the exact formula in the Constructibles.xml file in folders for each age.
NOTE2: x axis is the cumulative food requirement. Basically, how much food do you need since the founding of a settlement.


Couple of things we can learn from this-- (with Edits, after some more thought)

-The new growth formula provides faster growth starting a population of 6, 13, and 24 for the Antiquity, Exploration, Modern Age, respectively, compared to the old formula.

-Growth is slower beneath these thresholds, in low-population settlements. Basically, this is intended as a nerf to wide play (more cities, less towns) and a buff to tall play (less cities, more towns).

-The biggest boost is that the rate of growth in the Antiquity Age is now SO MUCH faster. Now it takes only ~3000 total food since the settlement was founded to reach true population 12, whereas it used to be ~7500.

-Growth gets a lot slower in the later ages, but only for small settlements. That population 12 city at the start of Exploration is now on a fast track again, compared to previous. It takes only ~32000 vs ~68000 for a population 12 city to grow to population 24.

-The modern age is slowest. Good luck growing your smaller settlements. Your tall cities over true population of 24 will grow faster than version 1.1.

 

[chazzycat]

Yeah, it's very noticeable for tall play. I pushed my capital up to size 46 in antiquity on the first try, where I never could get over ~32 or so previously. Khmer is back on the menu boys!

 

[Krikkit1]

What are the actual formulas?

 

[GeneralZIft]

Why does growth drop with age? Do people go on diets or what
Maybe Modern people don't quite eat and fudge like Ancient people did?

Is it to do with yields changing per age?

 

[Krikkit1]

Why does growth drop with age? Do people go on diets or what
Maybe Modern people don't quite eat and fudge like Ancient people did?

Is it to do with yields changing per age?

No, the Modern people are eating More it takes more food for them to grow.

 

[tman2000]

Why does growth drop with age? Do people go on diets or what
Maybe Modern people don't quite eat and fudge like Ancient people did?

Is it to do with yields changing per age?

Well luxury means more calories consumed and fewer kids had regardless.

 

[tman2000]

No, the Modern people are eating More it takes more food for them to grow.

Modern people are fatter and have fewer kids

 

[CivMD]

What are the actual formulas?

Antiquity: 4*x^2 + 20*x + 5, approximate cumulative: 4*x^3/3 + 10*x^2 + 5*x + 29

Exploration: 5*x^2 + 50*x + 30, approximate cumulative: 5*x^3/3 + 25*x^2 + 30*x + 85

Modern: 6*x^2 + 60*x + 60, approximate cumulative: 2*x^3 + 30*x^2 + 60*x +126

 

[evonannoredars]

Graph colour scheme is confusing me - has it reversed from faster growth in modern than antiquity to faster in antiquity? Seems weird if so, would make much more sense imo to speed up modern growth so new settlements can catch up with older ones a little bit

Then again, food is much more plentiful by the modern era with more warehouse bonuses, so maybe that outweighs it

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Well luxury means more calories consumed and fewer kids had regardless.

Historically, there should be a growth spurt at Industrialization, because that was accompanied by better sanitation (Pasteur's Germ Theory), relatively safe urban water supplies and mass health services (some of those, of course, only some time after industrialization started). These had the major effect of reducing the infant mortality rate, which had been up to 50% by age 10 across much of Europe since Antiquity. From about 1840 to 1900, for instance, Europe's population more than doubled as most of the sub-continent industrialized to some extent. This also, somewhat later, triggered the 'having fewer kids' since 1) more of the kids lived to grow up, and 2) you didn't need a flock of kids to provide labor once the industrial nations started banning child labor and you weren't all making a living scrabbling on the family farm.

The obesity epidemic in modern America is a much later phenomena, and all the effects are probably made even worse by rampant pollution of the urban environment by chemicals and micro-plastics.

 

[CivMD]

Why does growth drop with age? Do people go on diets or what
Maybe Modern people don't quite eat and fudge like Ancient people did?

Is it to do with yields changing per age?

It didn't "drop" per se, it's just lower than the previous version. It is still fast enough.
Historical relevance? I don't think there's any, haha...

 

[ThERat]

I don't understand why growth should drop in modern times, when advancements in medicine and sanitation etc have led to an explosion in population....well well

 

[Krikkit1]

I don't understand why growth should drop in modern times, when advancements in medicine and sanitation etc have led to an explosion in population....well well

Food production also goes up in that era.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I don't understand why growth should drop in modern times, when advancements in medicine and sanitation etc have led to an explosion in population....well well

But what is "One Population?" It seems that in previous versions it kind of scaled with time too.

 

[Taefin]

Admittedly I haven tried a new game yet, but I don’t like the look of the new curves. When they said they were switching to quadratic growth, I assumed they’d keep small settlement growth about the same but remove the cubic escalation toward futility. Instead they just moved the futility even earlier.

It looks like they attempted to nerf pop growth for wide play with many cities, but also slowed pop growth significantly after antiquity so that tall play won’t really benefit until the game is effectively over. Given that wide play can just use gold to build in small cities, and isn’t heavily penalized by slower growth, I think the change may even have gone backwards. It appears FXS’s entire vision is to avoid true pop from ever getting too big

The only advantageous path appears to be what OP identified of get >=12 by end of antiquity, now easier, then get 200-300 food into a few cities to grow to 24 by end of exploration. But at this point you are still spending so much food on so little return on each additional specialist.

 

[MutilationWave]

Admittedly I haven tried a new game yet, but I don’t like the look of the new curves. When they said they were switching to quadratic growth, I assumed they’d keep small settlement growth about the same but remove the cubic escalation toward futility. Instead they just moved the futility even earlier.

It looks like they attempted to nerf pop growth for wide play with many cities, but also slowed pop growth significantly after antiquity so that tall play won’t really benefit until the game is effectively over. Given that wide play can just use gold to build in small cities, and isn’t heavily penalized by slower growth, I think the change may even have gone backwards. It appears FXS’s entire vision is to avoid true pop from ever getting too big

The only advantageous path appears to be what OP identified of get >=12 by end of antiquity, now easier, then get 200-300 food into a few cities to grow to 24 by end of exploration. But at this point you are still spending so much food on so little return on each additional specialist.

@chazzycat claims a 46 pop city in antiquity, playing tall. Maybe it's better than the graph appears.

 

[sixty4half]

The only advantageous path appears to be what OP identified of get >=12 by end of antiquity, now easier, then get 200-300 food into a few cities to grow to 24 by end of exploration. But at this point you are still spending so much food on so little return on each additional specialist.

I just hit 40 in 1 city in Exploration age and it's next pop event is 5 turns later. I don't understand where you're coming up with the idea that 24 would be where your cities should be. Most of my cities with good growth and a few towns feeding then are above 30. Only 2 are in the 20s. My new fishing towns are making crazy food; exploding to 14+ pop quick and are now providing over 100 food each to my cities.

 

[Tanel]

Why does growth drop with age? Do people go on diets or what
Maybe Modern people don't quite eat and fudge like Ancient people did?

Is it to do with yields changing per age?

Probably because of balancing reasons. Your cities grow twice as much in the Antiquity age now so if you went even faster in the later ages the population numbers would get out of hand pretty fast. And actually as long as your settlements start Exploration with 13+ or Modern with 24+ they will grow faster. It's just the new settlements that won't grow as fast.

 

[Siptah]

I just hit 40 in 1 city in Exploration age and it's next pop event is 5 turns later. I don't understand where you're coming up with the idea that 24 would be where your cities should be. Most of my cities with good growth and a few towns feeding then are above 30. Only 2 are in the 20s. My new fishing towns are making crazy food; exploding to 14+ pop quick and are now providing over 100 food each to my cities.

Did you subtract all urban pops? They increase the food needed to grow, but they grow without food.

 

[bumpyglint]

Did you subtract all urban pops? They increase the food needed to grow, but they grow without food.

Wait, I'm pretty sure urban pops don't increase the food needed. Basically they are just a benchmark with almost no effect in the game.