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[BTS] New insights into AGG trait

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Tobiyogi, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    After having recently played two AW forum games with an AGG leader, I have developed a kind of "strategy" that I am actually wondering of if it is transmittable to a regular non-isolation game (at least on IMM it should work).

    The cornerstones are as followed:
    We start with an AGG leader and our capitol must sit on a plains hill. In the recent Alex AW game, it is even a PH with stone, which means 3:hammers: from the very beginning.
    We start on growing on a barracks, ideally there is a 3:food: tile to work, so 2 pop after 8T, while the barracks is almost finished (as it costs only 25:hammers: it takes 9T to finish). We can alternatively grow on a 2:food:1:hammers: tile in 11 turns and finish the barracks in 9T as well, the PH start assumed.

    The ideal position would actually be this one from the forum AW game, but it can work in any PH starting location.
    Spoiler Starting screen Alex :
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG


    Also, I go Mining/BW first while growing to size 2 and not AGRI/AH/Fishing etc....
    All of this seems very counter-intuitive compared to the usual strategy of building worker first and researching the food techs.
    The idea is: With the finished barracks, we should more or less be at size 2 already and now we produce a couple of AGG warriors. With a bit of OF and tile swapping, it should be possible to build them in 2T each without starving back. It will probably take 7T for 3 of them. Depending on how long it takes to finish BW, I would start on my first worker only when this tech is already in sight so we can 1-pop the worker. If other Civs are very far, we will have to build our own worker anyway. If you see foreign borders very soon, you can wait on that and perhaps start on a work boat or Stonehenge (depending on starting techs).

    In the meantime, the AGG warriors are deploying and they go on the hunt of scouts. We have already 3XP points and with 1 or 2 kills, we are at Woodsman II. It is really easy. AI has 2 scouts on higher levels and when you kill one, they reproduce another one immediately. We can declare on others at any time because having WM II, no need to surprise a worker who is improving a tile on the edge of the border.
    The idea is to get lots of workers, while BW is coming in and they will chop you anything you need. The second thought is to hit an unpleasant opponent very early. I would NOT hit Mansa (because he will even attack you in the forest with Skirmishers) and you kill his trade potential when you choke him too much. But especially a warmonger, other bad techers or simply someone who is more of a burden than of use can be targeted. It is probably a worthwhile strategy for the famous NC 215 with Babylon (you will know why when you have played it).

    Spoiler NC 215 :
    No PH in sight unfortunately.... with a bit of map knowledge, you can probably apply that strategy later. D19xMuY.jpg


    I know it depends a lot on who is on the map, can the workers travel back in time and safely, is the foreign capitol forested enough....
    The big plus is: with 3-4 warriors at WM II, you really dominate the early map. You can accompany workers back to "homeland", you fogbust like a pro, you can choke someone to zero development if you want to do so.
    More advantages: Barracks already finished, using AGG trait very early, knowing where copper is very early in the game, having not only WMII but also Combat 1. Even WM III is not out of the reach (healing unit).
    The possible downside: Too long neglecting of power tiles like a wet corn. Sure, if we conquer 3-4 workers, we can focus all our resources on 3 settlers and won't need any worker builds for quite a while. If we fail though, it could backfire.
    Maybe I am also too much influenced by AW games where you are at war anyway and in a regular game, a DoW just for a couple of workers is not really worth it.

    What do you think about it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
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  2. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I think it's interesting, but probably would do it only on pangaea. Of course, you can also start normally with a worker and only after that go barracks-warriors, even chopping them and delaying 2nd city in order to field some woodsman2-guys. Also, even non-AGG leaders can try attacking animals (get 3xp) and get a W2-guy that way (especially when CHA)...
     
  3. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    I love to get the barracks first and with non-agg leaders, it is a huge investment. And I usually lose more of the half of my 65-70% fights (we had this topic already), at least it feels like losing them regularly, so I don't trust in attacking lions. The question is if a speedrun is really necessary or if building up first and then going barracks/warriors would be enough. My observation is that the scouts won't come back so quickly once they have seen your territory. So it's good to have some warriors asap because scouts are imo the best prey.
     
  4. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Yes. I don't think you can afford to build barracks without AGG.
    Lottery balls don't fall in the exact proportion after years. ;)
    Scouts are great prey of course (and wolves), because they are weak. Declaring is bad (well, at least slightly), better would be to declare and capture worker(s) immediately.
     
  5. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    Good thing about killing scouts is that AI gets caught in an endless cycle of wanting to reproduce them or at least to reproduce archers. With Woody II, I don't see a problem in declaring straight away. True, lottery is a prick :lol:
     
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  6. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    Next time that I play a map, I will most likely test my approach on the NC 227 with Stalin. AGG leader, starting with mining and a stone-ph to settle on. Perfect conditions.... I wonder if that kind of choking is doable on Deity, i will find out.
     
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  7. Imploding

    Imploding Warlord

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    Give Deity a fullhearted attempt! As you say the Stalin map is as good as it gets for you strat! Be sure to document your journey with screenshots. It will be interesting to follow your approach! Good luck :)
     
  8. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    hey @Imploding thanks for your support and interest in this approach, i will definitely open the Stalin game this way, and why not on Deity, because conditions are just too good :mischief: not only 100% but even 150%! Iirc, stalin is even the only AGG leader starting with mining...if copper should be nearby this could even turn out into a crushing desaster for some AI :king: Some screenshots will be posted in this thread
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  9. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    Going worker first on the Stalin map though. It is not exactly great to grow on a 2/1 tile and there are things to improve. Worker steal can still be possible. I was a bit confused with AW here, where you absolutely need a Woody II.
     

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