New Leader Idea: Adolf Hitler

[PancakePuppy]

Ok first of all I know this would be a pretty...unorthodox leader to say the least. It might even get the game banned in Germany but I would really LOVE to see him as a Civ Leader in a future game. Some of these ideas might seem rude to some people but keep in mind that its just an innocent suggestion.


Adolf Hitler

Leader Intro: The fate of Germany rests in your hands, Silver Tongued Hitler, as you lead the Third Reich through these dangerous times. Other Civilizations will tremble with fear at the sight of your massive army and your skilled troops will secure your Iron Grip on the World. With your natural talent for Manipulation and Battle Tactics you will surely lead your troops to Victory in exterminating all impurities from this world

Leader Bonus- Mass Propaganda: Units Receive a +5 combat bonus, and Germany suffers SIGNIFICANTLY less War Weariness, against Civilizations following another religion.

Civilization Bonus- Euro Bliss: Trade routes to other Civilizations provide +5 Gold to Germany and +2 Food and +3 gold to other Civilizations.

Unique Troop- U Boat: Now I couldn't really find any other Special Troops that Germany had during WW2 So I just decided to stick with the ,already present in WW2, U Boat.

(These next few things are the sensitive parts)

Leader Agenda- Mass Genocide: Likes Civilizations following the same religion as Germany, he also likes Civilizations who have established trade routes with Germany and have a massive Army.

Unique tile Improvement- [Unlocked after finishing the Totalitarianism Civic]Concentration/ Labor Camps: Provides +2 faith, +2 Production and +3 Great General points per turn.


So basically Hitler is meant to be an Aggressive Late Game Religious Civ. Early on he wont be much of a threat and will mostly focus on getting a good religion set up but late game he'll become a religious powerhouse and with a strong economy hell be able to easily sustain a huge army. Pair that up with his Propaganda and hell basically be able to declare war at basically any time. Any suggestions to make this better? I could really use a better troop since the U Boat has been used already

 

[Leyrann]

Disagree with the leader bonus. The Germans were that fed up with him that he's had over fourty attempts on his life.

Civilization bonus is wrong too - we already have Germany, so it should be the same.

Also Hitler was against religion in general.

And as you yourself already said - Firaxis won't add him. You'll have to look for mods for that. I believe there are a few already.

 

[Liufeng]

You cannot realize how much this topic has been discussed in these forums ... First, Firaxis will never add Hitler in the game, there's too much controversy surrounding the character (plus, if I was german, I would HATE that my civilization would be represented by him), and even if they would like to add him, they wouldn't be allowed because the game would be forbidden in some places. Second, Hitler is NOT such great leaders. Most leaders in the game are known for some achivements, may it be military, diplomatic, cultural, ... Hitler, although a somewhat good military beginning, soon proved to be up to the task of facing other european nations. He chained the defeats. His greatest strengh lied within some very able commanders. The third Reich lasted less than 10 years ... Third, as Leyrann, Hitler led Germany, and as such, would keep the Hansa as a UD, the U-Boat as the UU, and its Civ ability, changing only the leader ability and agenda. But if you wish for a whole new Nazi civ, well, you can use the Panzer instead of the already taken U-Boat as a UU. All in all, a German civ led by Hitler is a bad idea, that only raises a big discussion about the presence (or the not presence) of some leaders (Mao, Stalin, ...).

 

[Ryika]

plus, if I was german, I would HATE that my civilization would be represented by him

Well, I AM German and would not have a problem with it. I agree that Firaxis would obviously not include him in today's climate, but in a theoretical scenario where they did release him as an alternative leader, that would be perfectly fine with me.

But if you wish for a whole new Nazi civ, well, you can use the Panzer instead of the already taken U-Boat as a UU.

Why? The U-Boat fits perfectly, as Hitler used them to great effect in the earlier days of the war.

 

[Liufeng]

Why? The U-Boat fits perfectly, as Hitler used them to great effect in the earlier days of the war.

Well, as I said, because it is already taken by the German civ, and if he wishes to make a whole new Nazi civ instead of just a new leader, well, he won't be using the same unit, right ? Thus my proposition for the Panzer.

 

[Ryika]

Yeah, looks like I misunderstood what you meant, I'm sorry.

 

[PancakePuppy]

Disagree with the leader bonus. The Germans were that fed up with him that he's had over fourty attempts on his life.

Civilization bonus is wrong too - we already have Germany, so it should be the same.

Also Hitler was against religion in general.

And as you yourself already said - Firaxis won't add him. You'll have to look for mods for that. I believe there are a few already.

You do realize that Hitler literally Brainwashed everyone right? If they were fed up with him then why did the Nazis support him until the end... And why did they let him commit mass Genocide within their own land e.e

 

[Victoria]

No hitler did not brainwash everyone.
An orator like hitler had great power with a mass at a rally but individually listening to their radios, no.
Nazi's were his "people" his believers, and many of them were thugs and opportunists.
Yes his oration was good, the propoganda machine was also very powerful but many people could not stomach his vision.

Do you think the mass populace knew of the mass killing?

 

[paulmclem]

Do you think the mass populace knew of the mass killing?

Getting off topic perhaps, but my answer would be that most Germans likely knew something was happening to the Jews i.e. they knew that they were being run out of town on trains, with minimal belongings. What they thought was happening beyond some form of mass evacuation to wherever is unclear. Perhaps a lot of German's didn't want to know. Security in denial. Not sure. However, I am sure the general populace knew fine well they weren't going somewhere good.

As an aside I don't think Hitler/NSDAP really needed to brainwash anyone. Antisemitism was fairly rife in post-WWI Germany, and as such, many volk probably weren't overly concerned about where the trains were taking the Jews....as long as it was out of the Fatherland.

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Yes, this is getting a bit off topic. Hitler threads are always prone to getting out of hand, but we don't need to accelerate that process by injecting into the discussion potentially volatile sub-topics like "what did the German citizenry know, and when?" If folks want to discuss what happened 70+ years ago in Germany, the World History forum is just a few clicks away.

This thread has been very civilized so far, and can remain open for now, but please continue to keep it civil and please stay focused on the OP's leader proposal (which, as others have pointed out, will probably never be included in the published game, but is certainly fair to discuss for a mod).

 

[Ryika]

So, bringing the trait-discussion back to topic:

I think the trait makes a lot of sense. Not because he brainwashed people into hating the Jews (he didn't, but that's Offtopic again), but rather because he used the media to "validate" his actions in the population during most of the war. He very much took control of the media after gaining power, and made them his propaganda tool. The few who dared to speak out against him were suppressed, vanished or "found out to have worked with the Jews". He literally controlled the information that people could get access to on a grand scale, which is part of the reason why he was able to sustain control, and kept public perception from turning against him.

The proposed trait that heavily reduces war-weariness perfectly catches that effect in my opinion, and the added combat bonus symbolizes the zealousness that was drilled into Hitler's soldiers very well. The only thing that doesn't really fit in my opinion is the religious aspect, because while they made use of religious rhetoric ("Gott mit uns"), they were not an army that fought in the name of God, and their targets were not chosen for religious reason.

The one problem I have with the trait is that it's mostly passive and doesn't really create unique gameplay.

 

[Leyrann]

(while reading this thread Sabaton's "The Final Solution" started playing on the radio I am listening to, btw)

With what Ryika said about the Leader Ability, I have to say I like it a lot more, as Hitler most certainly did control the media for his own benefit. Maybe an additional bonus could be to train units X% faster or something? That's more active.

 

[ReichAdler]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=872230530

 

[Victoria]

I really think killing 6 million jews excessive and because it was done by a madman everyone was fighting he was hammered quite rightly for it.
Was it the largest group of people inhumanely killed in WWII, no

Regardless I do not believe we should deify him with his own civ.
It was the german people that were so innovative and flexible that allowed him to rule. They should and do have the civ.

I think the Stuka would have been better than the UBoat and more fun.

END

 

[Fippy]

Was it the largest group of people inhumanely killed in WWII, no

Maybe you forgot adding other civilian victims, but the total number of civilians killed by the nazi regime was ~15 million.
How would you find a bigger crime in ww2 (or even history?)

Using Hitler for games (entertainment) is wrong on so many levels, and i feel sorry for those who would enjoy that.

 

[Leyrann]

I really think killing 6 million jews excessive and because it was done by a madman everyone was fighting he was hammered quite rightly for it.
Was it the largest group of people inhumanely killed in WWII, no

Regardless I do not believe we should deify him with his own civ.
It was the german people that were so innovative and flexible that allowed him to rule. They should and do have the civ.

I think the Stuka would have been better than the UBoat and more fun.

END

Actually, the jews WERE the largest group inhumanly killed in WWII. Yes, there were more people than that that died in battle, but they, well, died in battle, they weren't led like cattle to the slaughter (or not to the same degree, at least). And of the civilians that died in WWII... 5 million non-jews (gays etc) died in the camps, which, while a horrifyingly large number, is smaller than the number of jews that died. Stalin also sent a lot of people to their deaths, but he mostly did so in the thirties, before WWII, which excludes them from "the largest group of people inhumanly killed in WWII".

Also, Hitler's rise was just as much to blame on the Allied powers from WWI, who designed the treaty of Versailles (excluding the USA, as they refused to sign it). I'm not gonna spend half an hour for a history lesson, but the vast majority of the misery in Germany that allowed Hitler to rise could be traced back to the treaty of Versailles, the Great Depression, or both. He was simply the man that had the charisma to get the people behind him, and it turned out he was a monster through and through.

(oh btw, before you think the allies are all good... Hitler got his ideas about Jews from Henry Ford and the idea for concentration camps (but not the "kill them all" part) from the English who used them in South Africa)

 

[Victoria]

Russian Civilian skilled in the war by nefarious means, China quite possibly more. Apologies all I missed Browds post and will post no more

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Thanks, Victoria. Just as a reminder, I would ask everyone to be VERY careful in this thread. Holocaust-related discussions invariably rub raw emotional wounds and trigger often angry responses. [As a point of comparison, such discussions are specifically banned on the official forums for Paradox's WW2 game, Hearts of Iron, for those very reasons.]

So, please do your best to discuss the suggested Hitler mod from a game-play perspective (leader traits, UUs, etc.) without devolving into real-world discussions of the Holocaust, civilian casualties or war crimes generally. If you can't restrain yourself, we will do it for you, but would rather not.

 

[Jarms48]

The only way I'd add the Reich is if it was in a WW2 scenario, I wouldn't add it into sandbox/multiplayer gameplay.

 

[Cliomancer]

Since I apparently want to try out this new eleven foot pole I've got, here's a suggestion:

Hitler's Leader ability could be Lebensraum
Germany gains bonus production for three turns after it declares war or captures a city.

It's similar to John Curtin's ability, only offensive rather than defensive.