new mac pros

[Brad Oliver]

I'm picking up Civ 4 today and will test fly it on my trusty G4. It'll be interesting to compare the game play between the two platforms.

Interesting is one word for it...

I just don't get this perverse fascination with people trying to run games on rigs that are not only known to be underpowered for what the game needs, but massively so. AlanH's case is borderline interesting, but this is just nuts.

 

[AlanH]

AlanH's case is borderline interesting ...

I'm glad you think so. See the gauntlet that has been flung down re. playing the current GOTM. I'm fairy confident that ten Mac players will *not* show up to play the current GOTM, but if they do I'll defer my attempt to play it until my new Mac Pro arrives in a week or so. There's no way I could play a full Civ4 game on this otherwise-very-respectable G4.

 

[Mordac]

Interesting is one word for it...

I just don't get this perverse fascination with people trying to run games on rigs that are not only known to be underpowered for what the game needs, but massively so. AlanH's case is borderline interesting, but this is just nuts.

Yup, I'll buy perverse fascination. In my real life I provide Mac technical support for a large daily newspaper. It's part of my job (and a part I enjoy) to test known software on new Mac platforms. Transposing this fascination to my home life and game playing just comes naturally.

I also admit to a perverse fascination in finding and reporting "undocumented features" that programmers inadvertently slip into their software. Reading the responses to these bug reports make for some interesting and humors reading.

BTW, the version of Civ 4 I purchased today requires a G5 Intel chipset. So, the G4 test isn't going to happen.

Alan - Thank you for the welcome; it's appreciated.

 

[AlanH]

BTW, the version of Civ 4 I purchased today requires a G5 Intel chipset. So, the G4 test isn't going to happen

There's no such thing as a 'G5 Intel' chip set. I guess you mean G5 or Intel?

That was the point of Brad's remark. A G4 is below the minimum spec, whatever its clock speed. That doesn't mean it won't install. It'll complain that your hardware is not adequate when you try to run it, but it'll still let you ...

 

[Mordac]

There's no such thing as a 'G5 Intel' chip set. I guess you mean G5 or Intel?

Hi Alan:

You're correct, I should have added a "/" between the G5 and Intel. Sorry, I wasn't intending to mislead anyone.

 

[Skippy_Kangaroo]

On your new Mac, it will fly ... I hope!

That depends on the alignment of the cooling fans.

On my MacBook Pro it is more of a hover once the fans get up to speed. You need to be careful not to lean on the computer or use the trackpad too vigorously or it will go scooting away from you on a cushion of air. But I wouldn't say it will fly.

For the Mac Pro you might have to indulge in a bit of case modding to add flight surfaces, nonetheless, I think you might have a chance because they will be rotating at full speed with Civ IV. But you would probably have been better off with an older G5 tower as they had more fans...

 

[AlanH]

From the reports I've read you need very good hearing even to detect the fans in a Mac Pro. The GPU fan is likely to be the most audible component in it.

 

[Skippy_Kangaroo]

From the reports I've read you need very good hearing even to detect the fans in a Mac Pro. The GPU fan is likely to be the most audible component in it.

Stealth technology too! Man, Apple ought to contract out to the DoD!

 

[wiglaff]

Apple basically accomplishes that "super-quiet Macbook Pro fan" by cheating you out of what you paid for.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1693

Apple is trading graphics performance for battery life with its new line of Intel-based MacBook Pro notebooks.

The ATI Radeon X1600 graphics card inside each MacBook Pro is capable of running both its graphics processing unit and memory at about 470MHz, but avid computer users have discovered the cards are underclocked to 310MHz (GPU) and 278MHz (RAM).

The modifications cripple the speed of the graphics processor by about 34 percent and the memory by 41 percent.

Users discovered the change after installing Microsoft's Windows XP (with the help of Apple's Boot Camp software) and running a third party application called ATITool (0.25).

By sacrificing graphics performance, Apple was able to improve the MacBook Pro's battery life and keep the units near-silent.

Some daring MacBook Pro users successfully used the third party ATITool software to uncap the full potential of the ATI chip. They found it reduced the battery life of their MacBook Pro by about 30 minutes, but did not over heat the notebooks or cause any other side effects such as display artifacts.

However, one user said the uncapping "took only couple of seconds" to cause the system's cooling system fan to spin at a speed he "never experienced before."

Thumbs down to apple on this one.

 

[AlanH]

We're talking Mac Pro in this thread, not MacBook Pro.

Note that Apple are never going to over-clock a video card beyond the level warranted by its manufacturer.

 

[wiglaff]

We're talking Mac Pro in this thread, not MacBook Pro.

Note that Apple are never going to over-clock a video card beyond the level warranted by its manufacturer.

no, they have underclocked it to a level below what ATI reccomends .

they also did this on the imacs.

who wants to bet what they did to the ones on the mac pro i sure as hell wouldn't trust them.

 

[AlanH]

who wants to bet what they did to the ones on the mac pro

I'll be able to let you know next week, I guess

 

[wiglaff]

I guess since it's a tower (and one aimed at power users), they'd have no reason to underclock the card. The iMac and laptops are apparently too compact, though.

 

[5150]

wiglaff, are you helpless? There are tools available to easily change the clock speed of the cards.

The only thing worse than a troll is a stupid troll.

 

[wiglaff]

wiglaff, are you helpless? There are tools available to easily change the clock speed of the cards.

The only thing worse than a troll is a stupid troll.

of course you can change it (especially if you have bootcamp and run readily available PC software ) ... but then , especially on the macbook pro....those fans are gonna be LOUD. very loud. and very hot.

which sorta kills the whole "apple has stealth technology!!" BS.

btw, how many people actually know that their macbook pro has cheated them on the graphics they paid for? apple certainly didn't make any effort to clue them in.

 

[AlanH]

I don't think anyone here said Apple had any "stealth technology".

Moderator Action: Please stay on topic.
I repeat - this thread is about Mac Pro, not MacBook Pro.

 

[wiglaff]

yep yep

Stealth technology too! Man, Apple ought to contract out to the DoD!

 

[AlanH]

Oh, get real! That was a joke response to my statement about a report that Mac Pro is quiet. No one said Mac Book Pro is quiet - quite the opposite. Skippy compared his to a hovercraft. You hijacked the thread to ride your hobby horse about underclocked Mac Book Pro video cards.

 

[ainwood]

[UPDATE]
Oh well! I've ordered my 2.66GHz/Dual-Xeon/2GBytes/Geforce 7300 Mac Pro. Watch this space for a Civ4 performance report next week. I fully expect to be blown away by its general performance

Excellent! On the assumption that a 7300 is better than my 6600GT & 6800, you should find it works pretty darn well. Your dual 2.66 GHZ are a step-up from my processor as well.


Did they throw in a free copy of XP for bootcamp?

 

[Mac Guru]

It's funny, but me and the other guys I do tech support with were talking about the Mac Pro's before they came out. We were all commenting how with the change in main board specs, it would allow them more real estate in the current case. So, with that we were all saying how we'd love to see 4 drive bays, an additional optical drive slot, as well as the possibility of socketed processors.......

I was so surprised to see pretty much everything come true! The Mac Pro's remind me of my G4 MDD ( Mirror Drive Door ). Since those machines, there really hasn't been an Apple machine as customizable. I'm just wondering if they went with socketed processors. That would really make a difference in how much you could customize them.

As far as the graphic card debate goes, well I'm a constant upgrader, so it doesn't really matter to me. That's the whole point of a getting a desktop, being able to upgrade/customize it. I recently upgraded my MDD from it's paltry 64mb graphics card to a 256mb and it was a nice jump. Before that it was maxing out the ram to 2gb and actually even more recently, I put in two additional 180gb drives. I kinda chuckle when I see some of the specs of the machines running Civ IV and "technically" mine shouldn't run it, but it runs just fine. With 2 1.25Ghz processors, 2gb of ram, and 256mb graphics card it does fine. It's a little slow on the huge maps at the end, but other than that runs fine.

So, I have been looking at the machines and my finances and figure this. I'll have money for a Mac Pro by about this time next year . The up side to that is that he machine will be through a few Revs ( I never buy a Rev. A machine) , Leopard will be on it ( which by the way is awesome, I have a developer copy ) , and the prices for the accessories ( ram, graphics cards) won't be as crazy as they are now. Sure it kinda stinks they went with a 256mb card, but those are so easy to upgrade, I'd go with the low end solution only to upgrade it later when the prices fall on the higer end ones.

Now, I just need to get my current machine to last another year, and well if that fails I always have my work machine