New Patch Feedback Thread

[kravixon]

This thread is for feedback on the new patch. I'm making this in an attempt to leave the patch thread to talk about getting it to run and how you need to play differently in it.

Strategy wise- I've played as Egypt and Greece on monarch (BTS). Went for the UHV for both, assuming I can survive a possible roman invasion I will surely win. However, I find the new time changes to be very tough on Egypt. I received a great engineer to build the lighthouse and I whipped the great library and finished it on the turn that it needed to be completed. Even with the instant build it was very hard to finish the buildings, since it seems to take longer to research the appropriate techs. It's doable though, however, I don't see how one can reach 5,000 culture by turn 143 without popping a great artist. Like-wise, I don't see how you can get a great artist without researching drama, which would cause you to miss the building date. I'll try it again and found on Per-wajit and see if I can do any better.

Technical wise- One noticeable difference was the total lack of Native raiders that used to wander in from the Libyan desert. I suppose this has to do with Africa being divided in sahara and sub-sahara. Not a bad thing, as it is still a challenge to reach the UHV, but not sure if it was intended to be that way or not. Egypt felt very alone in the desert. Barbarians still spawn in with Camel Archers, but I didn't experience any until turn ~140.

 

[blizzrd]

I picked Japan (3000BC) on Monarch difficulty first under the new patch. I managed to peg most of the early wonders that I was going for - Colossus, Lighthouse, Moai Statues, Great Library, Leaning Tower and Great Wall. I was able to really outpace the AI civs and by around 1400 was an era ahead of my nearest rivals, none of whom even had Optics while I had Astronomy.

I was surprised that when I met a Roman trireme just how backwards they were. Only Ethiopia was behind them in score. When I eventually sailed into the Mediterranean I found out why - Rome had actually been sacked and completely razed by the barbarians!

This gave Spain a lot of expansion room, they actually founded Trieste at the NE of the Adriatic. I've certainly never seen this before.

AI China was actually very aggressive to me in this game, launching an attack on Keijo (Korea) firstly amphibiously (one chariot) while a stack of 3 catapults, 2 crossbows and 2 chariots approached by land. I only just managed to transfer enough troops around from various cities on my home island to fend them off. This certainly hasn't happened to me before while playing Japan.

The no tech brokering seems to really have slowed down some of the AI civs, while it didn't really affect my pace of development whilst in "spledid isolation" (i.e. Representation and Mercantilism). Maybe this is more unique to Japan's situation, but I found the new patch a bit easier to date than the old version - although the Japanese UHV is overall certainly more difficult now - which is a good improvement.

I particularly liked founding Edo (as opposed to Tokyo), a nice touch there Rhye.

 

[wr4th]

I've tried some of the UHV (Monarch)

Egypt
The slower tech rate hurts, but it's still doable. One can't get the artist by music any more, so one has to go for caste system for a short time.
I founded Siwa (W of the oasis), Per-Atum (on the copper), Yebu (E of the gold). In short: 2 workers, Pyramids, Stonehenge, Settlers...

Babylon
Tried a few times with different build orders, but seems impossible. Maybe if one pops one or two techs...

India
Also impossible. No way to get to Judaism in time.

China (3000BC)
Same as last version, actually felt a bit easier.

Greece
Straight forward and easy UHV. Conquering Babylon and India with the starting units seems easier and is maybe vital. I failed my first attempt due to an very early oracle in India

Netherlands
Also still one of the easier UHVs

 

[Walliard]

I've tried some of the UHV (Monarch)

India
Also impossible. No way to get to Judaism in time.

Not only that, but you can't bulb Theology with a single Great Prophet.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Judaism probably needs to be delayed in its founding with the current patch. (historically maybe not 2000 as the Torah says but more like 1250 around the time of crossing of the Sinai, and maybe even after turn 40 in particular?)

The Ancient civs probably should not have their tech rates slowed until the classical civs show up. If it's impossible in monarch, Emperor is definitely not possible, now that "cheating" has been disabled.

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

Given that Judaism comes in with Monotheism, but wasn't even close to being a monotheistic religion until the 1st millennium BC, delaying it will be historically more accurate as well.

Cheers, Luke

 

[Walliard]

As far as I can tell, the earliest I can research Monotheism is Turn 52 (1550 BC), and I've had Judaism spawn as early as Turn 35.

On the plus side, it seems the other civs take longer to build the Oracle, though I've only done a few trials.

 

[Tigranes]

Tried America 3 times (1 time on 3000BC unlocked) just to see how the world would look like:

-graphics: nice look. The only thing is that the coast looks exactly like an ocean, a little annoying.

-colonization: it looked different from the previous patch. Holland has found a city in Australia -- before anyone else did. Spain found Miami Vikings found Husavik in Iceland!

-One time Japan got New World event and conquered both Incas and Aztecs. I wonder if Khmer still get this event as well. Does not look very historical but kind of fun and helps American UHV sinse Japan is not Europe

-Lots of new city names I never saw before, like Tehran. Very nice. The best thing: my lovely Artashat survived under it's name in XVIII century

-Arabia always collapses. Never saw her alive. One time Christianity was found in Mekka, how is THAT was possible?

-One time entire Europe was Islamic (and I think patch was supposed to suppress that). Only Russia and Viking were Christian
I was afreid to use my Missionary.

- I have a feeling the world is much more polarized now. Two/three empires have the rest of the countries as their vassals.

- China has conquered Mongolia! Every single Mongolian city was purple. First time I ever saw it Just like Ming Empire was supposed to do.

 

[Walliard]

Arabia always collapses. Never saw her alive. One time Christianity was found in Mekka, how is THAT was possible?

Barbs raze Jerusalem, preventing the auto-spawn, and no one bothers to research theology before the Arabs spawn.

 

[Lone Wolf]

- I have a feeling the world is much more polarized now. Two/three empires

AI-AI wars, cool.

- China has conquered Mongolia! Every single Mongolian city was purple. First time I ever saw it

I've seen it before.

Barbs raze Jerusalem, preventing the auto-spawn

They need to stop razing it.

And, like I said in the patch thread:

Run an American start test, just for testing.

1) The AI colonization is great. Even with France getting dogpiled and divided between Spain and Germany and Portugal getting conquered by Spain (which is uber-cool - yay effective AI-AI wars!) there was much more colonization then I've recently seen. Thanks!

2) The Statue of Liberty was already built in Kyoto, or whatever it's called now, with that werid "u". Kyuoyuouto FTW.

3) Manila tile is still jungled. Grr. On the plus side, the Miami tile is finally not.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

It would help with Jerusalem if barb HORSE ARCHERS (mind you, not just swordsmen or axemen) didn't spawn north of Shushan around turn 50.

 

[Virdrago]

Carthage isn't bad, but those barbs from Arabia razed Babylonian Ur, my Carthaginian Babilu, and my Carthaginian Yerushalayim, before turn 130! Wow. Couldn't get my fifth city, let alone the dye requisite. Barbs also took Byzantion by turn 110, and then demolished Epidamnos.

Interestingly, for once, the Babylonians did not have archers when I met them or even when I attacked fifteen turns later. They did have Ninua and Sur, and built Ur before I took Babilu...

 

[CrossRFC]

I've played a few games as ancient civs, and here's the verdic on the patch:

1.Rome is a big wuss:
it turtles in Italy and sometimes goes for just 1 french city. This is a big change from the pre-patch Rome, who would often capture not just France, but Greece, Carthage, Egypt, even Babylon! I think it has to do with Melpum not flipping.

2. Carthage refuses to die:
for some weird reason, barb camel archers don't attack Carthage. So if barbs or Romans don't sack Carthage, it'll stay stable for quite a while.

3. The Vikings found their two cities and sit there with all their troops and ships.

That's all I can think of right now...

 

[Lone Wolf]

1.Rome is a big wuss:

In my test game, AI Rome just had enough time to conquer the Gaul lands, before the barbarians decimated it.

2.Cartthage refuses to die

Continent Lines.

3.The Vikings just found two cities

Not my experience.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Actually, I've seen the Vikings just turtle with 2 cities, especially if they become vassals of somebody else (like me as Japan). Very frustrating.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Maybe the amount of barbs scares them?

 

[CrossRFC]

One more thing: if Rome builds the Great Wall, say bye-bye to the Greeks, the Vikes and the French

 

[blizzrd]

2. Carthage refuses to die:
for some weird reason, barb camel archers don't attack Carthage. So if barbs or Romans don't sack Carthage, it'll stay stable for quite a while.

Would the change to the African continent line be improved if it were dynamic to occur in around 600AD?

Is this even possible to implement?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Well, Rhye did pretty much the same with Istanbul.

 

[star15389]

I love what's happened to India (600 AD start). Multiple European civs (and China, which also got both conquerors) had captured/founded cities. Didn't see England, though.