New Patch Feedback Thread

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

But I did end up needing that archer soon enough. Turn 60 and there were barbarian horse archers right next to Babili! This is crazy. Chariots I could perhaps understand, I think the Assyrians had these - but this is represented by Gordion spawning with a barb chariot I believed.

Actually that's the Hittites (and/or Mittanians) for the mid 2nd millennium BC. The Assyrians, like the Sumerians before them, are all rolled into your own "Babylonians" in RFC.

If there should be any barbarians coming out of the south, they should be plain warriors representing Amorites, etc; these guys were only a menace at the end of the 3rd millennium BC however, armed mostly with fire-hardened sticks. Numerous but not advanced.

Horse archers were a feature of the 1st millenium BC however - the Kimmerians over-ran large parts of Asia Minor.

You could have some "hill peoples" spawning from near Persia in the 2nd century BC that might qualify as axemen - Gasgans and the like.

Howvere, the dating in RFC/Civ generally is a bit out, since you start off only in 3000 BC, there is for instance no way to build the pyramids by the end of the 3rd millenium BC.

Cheers, Luke

 

[wr4th]

But having to use wr4th's super skills to win the UHV isn't natural...(I actually started some games like his as I realized that killing other civs is key with the current patch, but I never got the requisite city raider promotions)

Anyway, as Babylon, wr4th how did you weather the horse archers appearing north of Shushan?

I think those on the screen were the first to spawn in this game, but even in other games they usually didn't bother me. They just went for Asia Minor or Persia. Dunno why.

edit:
for the city raider promotions its like 1/3 to get either the exp from the hut, or meet a barbarian which you have to attack in order to get enough exp.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

well, I wasn't so lucky, my Babylonian borders had just expanded and I started to work on the wheat. And my worker was so tasty the barbs caught it the next move as they spawned.

And my Babylon was undefended, all my warriors having gone fishing for huts. I gave up soon after.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Yay, that's the first patch in which I am able to experience the glorious feature of mercenary button crash.

 

[blizzrd]

I think that people are complaining that the AI's get decimated and that's not fun. (See the Middle East picture).

Exactly! Well said, you have summed up my greatest issue currently - that due to less AI civs being around the game is less challenging. After I destroyed Babylon and Egypt in my Greek game, no AI civ even slightly challenged me. Rome used to, but not now due to the barb pressure.

My secondary issue is that the AI tech pace has been nerfed. Not just slowed down, but completely rooted. The post-600AD AI civs present a challenge if you start as a post-600AD, but the ancient civs are just taking up space on the map and will never under the newest patch challenge the human player for techs after the first 100 turns or so because they can't trade with each other to keep up. They may be able to give the human a run for his/her money while the human is trying to meet certain UHV goals, but overall the ancient AI civs are just doomed to be left behind.

 

[blizzrd]

Actually that's the Hittites (and/or Mittanians) for the mid 2nd millennium BC. The Assyrians, like the Sumerians before them, are all rolled into your own "Babylonians" in RFC.

I thought the Hittites were represented by the barbarian city of Hattusas?

 

[blizzrd]

scu98rkr hit some good points.

People in general need to adopt to radical changes, and see with favour additions of bonuses only (while other kind of changes are often needed).
In the case of barbarians, people just forgot how it used to be in vanilla.
I personally see Warlords and BTS "wrong" as they've been so far.

The problem is that in vanilla barbs had many cities and were stronger because of that.
In Warlords they were unable to ever collapse Rome; in BTS even worse, because the AI is much stronger.

So, if a massive amount of units is now enough to collapse classical civs 50% of the times (that's my target), but they're too much for a human player, I'll do the following:
less units, more bonus vs AI. Don't want everything razed, but still a 50% of the civs alive.
For your information, I'm doing these changes right now.

I'm not having fun with the current level of barbarian activity. Simple as that. I disagree with you Rhye that Vanilla was right and Warlords and BTS were wrong. You're entitled to your opinion, but so am I.

Currently to "enjoy" my game, I enter Worldbuilder about every 5 turns and delete a whole stack of barbarian stacks such that the level of barbarian activity is what I consider to be reasonable. This is wrong to have to do this though, and if you don't plan on changing it (the level of barbarian activity) I will be reverting to 1.181 instead.

 

[star15389]

Rhye, I was playing Vanilla only a week or so ago. The barbarians were nothing compared to this. The previous patch definitely wasn't enough, but this is excessive. Maybe the barbs should be weaker prior to about 300 AD, and then greatly increase (to a greater level than they are now) to pave the way for the Arabs/Euros/Turks/Mongols by weakening ancient civs.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Well said blizz. I guess we can all revert to the old patch instead.

 

[The-Doc]

Concerning the Barbs I don't think any drastic change is needed. Maybe a bit of a delay on the spawns, remove the AI penalty, and a removal of the Mid-East Camel Archers would give AI's a fighting chance and make things a bit more fun.

I'd also like to see a bit more variety in the Saharan/Mid-East Barbs, they don't have to be horse archers. How about a North African spawn of Swordsman/Archers to represent the Vandal invasions with the Camel Archers/Horse Archers showing up at a later date to represent the Berbers. Or how about some Swordsman/Chariots/Archers in Asia Minor to represent Hittites and Assyrians. I know Hattusas and Gordion spawns already do that in a way, but why not make the Caucasus spawns something other than horse archers just for variety's sake.

I haven't seen anything wrong with the levels of Barbarian activity in Europe, its actually pretty historical and manageable as Rome or Greece. The Asian hordes seem fine too, human China's can take them on well enough and the AI survives though its tough on them (As it should be).

All told I like the current Barbarian situation, for ancient and classical civs they are the number #1 enemy and a definite domination plan stopper. Just the way it should be IMO.

Just don't need Mid East Camel Archers tearing things up in BC whatever.

 

[kravixon]

Someone (I think it might have been blizzrd) had mentioned two files: one that controls the amount of barb spawns, and the civ handicap one that now states that barbarians actually gain an attack bonus vs. AI.

What were those two files again, and have you tried fiddling around with them or simply replacing the barbarian spawns one with the same file from the last version?

I think a lot of us like most of the changes, just the barbarian one is pretty hard to swallow.

Also, what file controls the tech brokering? I'd like to try changing that and seeing if it's any better for the enemy AI.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Someone (I think it might have been blizzrd) had mentioned two files: one that controls the amount of barb spawns, and the civ handicap one that now states that barbarians actually gain an attack bonus vs. AI.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7490188&postcount=85.

 

[kravixon]

Ah, thank you lone wolf
Have you actually tried changing the values or replacing the file yet and playing a game? I've got to wait until I get back to school on monday before I can mess around with it.

Likewise, anyone know about the tech brokering?

 

[Walliard]

Unless I'm missing something, Maya is definitely impossible on Monarch, not so much because of the slower tech rate, but because the Calendar deadline was moved back to 500 AD. What was the reason for this?

 

[Maaximillus]

I didint like the huge amounts of barbarians either. Luckily its quite easy to "fix". It all is in Barbs.py file in Rhye's and Fall of Civilization\Assets\Python. Just need to chance some numbers and your fine.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Likewise, anyone know about the tech brokering?

Drop the attached files to Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rhye's and Fall of Civilization\PublicMaps. Rename their extensions to CivBeyondSwordWBSave (why the system does not allow you to post wbsaves, I don't know).

Then when clicking on "Play a Scenario", choose these files, beginning with TB (stands for Tech Brokering).

Or just do the usual NoCustomScenario = 0.

 

[Rhye]

If you have the patience of waiting a few days, I'm working on a quick collection of fixes.

 

[Cethegus]

If you have the patience of waiting a few days, I'm working on a quick collection of fixes.

I have to work on a school assignment myself so that's fine by me.

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

I thought the Hittites were represented by the barbarian city of Hattusas?

Well, they should be, but since they spawn with just warriors, they aren't a very accurate representation

Gordion should represent Phrygians, why they get the chariot is a mystery to me. Game play reasons, presumably - buit as a Greek, your two starting phalanxes should have nothing to fear from them anyway.

Cheers, Luke

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

Playing a Greek game at the moment; turn 174 at the moment (500 AD).

I'm rather enjoying the hordes of barbarians. They've sacked one Carthaginian city at least, but the Carthaginians are very much in the game still; only 3 cities but doing well in tech. The Romans are doing well with 6 cities - and were doing well even without the great wall; funnily enough the barbarian pressure doesn't seem to be any greater on me now they have it; most of the barbs have probably spawned... Babylon and the Levant got taken out, but the Persians are still there, 5 cities strong and pretty good techwise, and an Indian scout has just wandered over, and they are doing much better than I've ever seen them before - 6 cities, although not as advanced as everyone else.

So I can't say there are any noteable problems at the moment.

I did notice that when turn 125 came around, the Roman 1st UHV button neither advaned (success) nor greyed out (for failure) - is it being checked at the right time?

Another reason the game is interesting is I'm not the clear tech leader. That's par for the course for the Greeks usually, but what with the non-tech brokering, and inability to research alphabet at any early stage due to UHV requirements, I'm not ahead by any means.

Cheers, Luke