Yes, and even more to the point, it would mean that likely well before you could even have a governor with two promotions you would be able to produce settlers without losing pop, and would be able to do so in any number of cities at once.
[GS] New Pathenons
- Thread starter Lily_Lancer
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Doesn't make sense for a pantheon to replace a governor title entirely. You could have it add an extra +15% or +20% to settler production, either for the early eras or permanently, if you want to have it as a less one-time-shot bonus.
Leucarum
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I don't know that it's a hugely important point to debate since it's not an actual change.
The bigger question for me is how powerful religious settlements is at present. I found it very useful at higher difficulties where I need to reach parity with the AI asap. But there are times when other pantheons are tempting so since I played a few games where I took it, now I'm playing some where I specifically don't. My feeling is that it's my default pantheon but that there will be reasonably frequent starts where it isn't the optimal choice.
If it peters out after the classical era, it doesn't replace the governor title entirely. Rather, it's probably going out as Magnus' promotion would arrive on scene. To me, it's like arguing that the Great Bath or dams don't make sense because they are "stepping on" Liang's promotion to protect a city from floods. You can have multiple ways to achieve a benefit.
Since the AI isn't taking it, it's powerful. Since an AI civ will usually beat a player on larger maps and/or higher difficulties, it's appealing to have a potent pantheon that seems to be up for grabs at every turn. If the AI starts to take it, it'll be dubbed the "Stonehenge of pantheons".
Leucarum
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While it will always be good , arguably the optimal time to take it is after you hard built/bought a couple of cheap settlers, so you get reduced cost settlers and then one for free. So the AI not prioritizing it is even better for a player...
Minou
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I like Religious Settlements but it does feel a bit too powerful. As steveg700 noted, it is even better since the AI does not seem to be interested in it. My first game with the patch I rushed for it, but last game I intentionally waited until I made my second Settler to take it, since I knew the AI was highly unlikely to claim it. That means you can even sidestep the penalty of making you early Settlers more expensive until Colonization (and maybe Ancestral Hall) are available.
I really don't see much value in Religious Settlements. It's a free settler and a situational, marginal border bonus.
It's a good throwaway for a non religious civ, but for a non religious game I'd much rather have something like Divine Spark.
For a religious game, I need an adjacency pantheon or earth goddess .
It's a good throwaway for a non religious civ, but for a non religious game I'd much rather have something like Divine Spark.
For a religious game, I need an adjacency pantheon or earth goddess .
Sure, who needs a free settler in the ancient era? I mean really, when has having an extra city then ever mattered?
In the ancient era you probably sacrificed more to score the pantheon than you would have if you just hard produced a settler.
And if not, then you're likely playing a religious civ, for which religious settlements is underwhelming compared to other pantheons.
In the fringe cases where you get lucky wth faith accumulation on a non religious civ then yeah, it's not bad, but divine spark is better for long term accumulated benefit.
Minou
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You don’t have to sacrifice anything to get a pantheon in most cases, just work any tile that produces faith like tobacco or dyes, pop faith from a hut, or build/capture a holy site reasonably quick. At the worst you lose about 25 hammers if you’re running God King to get it.
The thing seems to be that the AI does not really go for religious settlements, so you don’t need to rush it and in fact may be better off not doing so because it delays the ramping up of setler costs. A free settler in the first 30-40 turns of the game is HUGE.
The thing seems to be that the AI does not really go for religious settlements, so you don’t need to rush it and in fact may be better off not doing so because it delays the ramping up of setler costs. A free settler in the first 30-40 turns of the game is HUGE.
It's not free though. An older game's goodie-hut settler would be free. The opportunity cost here of working most likely unimproved luxuries, using God King, or in a non religious civ going Holy Site first, is enormous.
That is to say nothing of the long term loss of bonuses for a better pantheon over time compared to the one-time settler and then the pathetic border bonus.
That is to say nothing of the long term loss of bonuses for a better pantheon over time compared to the one-time settler and then the pathetic border bonus.
Right, and you were getting gold too, so it's not like you got nothing. Meanwhile, you can pck something like Desert Folklore and then not be able to elbow into a religion.
What a civ gets from Religious Settlements is not merely the turns they would've spent cranking out the settler. They can also effectively gain one city they might not have gotten at all, because the early game is, after all, a race to the choicest spots more often than not.
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What? Desert Folklore is an adjacency pantheon, the strongest pantheons in the game for religion.
Now they just have to split the bonus of divine spark up and pantheons will have no really easy choices.
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It sure can be, but as a choice, it assumes a civ has a bunch of cities that take advantage of it, and that they wind up with a religion that lets them into the RV game. Given how early a pantheon can show up, a player may find out Desert Folklore will only apply to one of their cities, much less whether they'll found a religion. Otherwise, you might've just bought a pantheon that gives you +2 or 3 extra faith per turn.
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I mean, I wouldn't take Desert Folklore for a non desert start, but tiles tend to cluster together. It's easy to tell if you're up against a huge desert, or jungle, and tundra is nearly always clumped at the poles in large amounts unless a polar ocean gets in your way. Plus there are civs with obvious start biases that help in this regard. As a last result, Earth Goddess is the best bet if an adjacency pantheon doesn't appear to work. But by the time you get a pantheon you aught to have explored enough of your nearby territory to know.
Also, religious victory is not a necessary requirement for a religious civ. Having a strong religion with good bonuses and a steady supply of faith will help you with literally any victory condition.
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It's not such a simple calculation. With that (can be extremely early) settler let's say there is a 12 turn difference in working one faith tile + god king and without it.
So that's a 12 turn difference with regards to the 2nd city's output. In many cases that value will exceed the cogs you get from the +1 card for those 12 turns.
acluewithout
Deity
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It’s hard to go past a free settler. I also like the faster border growth. I always wanted to take Religious Settlements Pantheon but couldn’t justify it before - now I can because of the settler and the border control is just a fun little bonus.
Thing is. Although it’s hard to go past, Religious Settlements is also clearly not OP (a time least on higher difficulties). To me it’s more like Divine Spark. It’s just a really solid choice if you don’t have anything else particularly in mind.
It’s probably more of a must have pantheon if your really playing for speed. Even then, I don’t think it’s that bigger deal. It’s just one more city a bit faster - but then, if you’re playing really fast, you pumping out a tonne of settlers anyway.
Thing is. Although it’s hard to go past, Religious Settlements is also clearly not OP (a time least on higher difficulties). To me it’s more like Divine Spark. It’s just a really solid choice if you don’t have anything else particularly in mind.
It’s probably more of a must have pantheon if your really playing for speed. Even then, I don’t think it’s that bigger deal. It’s just one more city a bit faster - but then, if you’re playing really fast, you pumping out a tonne of settlers anyway.
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