New Picard Trailer just dropped

[rah]

Even I have to go along with that one.

 

[Blake00]

Boy did this spiral lol! Last time I checked my thread it was on 3 pages.. when I saw it was now on 8 pages I thought "I bet there's been an argument" and sure enough after half an hour of reading I've confirmed it haha. I also love how one of the pages turned into a which Civ game is better argument too lol!! Bit off topic but this is a Civ forum so sure why not haha.

I think it's important not to belittle others with different opinions.. eg there's some REALLY savage Trek fb groups that either delete and ban anything to do with Discovery or Discovery groups that do the vise versa to old stuff. Such division and hostility over a franchise that's meant to be about unification and bettering ourselves.. oh and then there's the groups where you can't even find people disagreeing over Star Trek because they're all too busy arguing about Trump.. Argh hell I'm becoming more annoyed with the fanbase than I am with the franchise lmao!!

Anyway personally I see merits in both sides opinions. Nothing beats oldschool Trek for me, however I do still enjoy the new stuff even if it is a bit more glorified and hollow. Admittedly Orville feels more like classic Trek which is why I love that too haha. I'm a huge Trekie, I've watched every single episode of every show, collect the boxsets, own nearly all the games, and I'm the creator of Star Trek Doom lol. It took me a while to get into Discovery's first season but I'm glad I stuck with it as season 2 is waaaay better with Captain Pike, Enterprise & Spock etc, less war, Klingons with hair lol and more 'fan service' in general. The new films are filled with little things that annoy me a bit but are very exciting and fun to watch. Kinda feel the same about Star Wars and enjoy all the new stuff although I think I actually do kinda hate The Last Jedi (yup I'm joining the band wagon here on that one lol). Anyway yes ST Picard could be bad but I'm excited about it. Finally a sequel story instead of a prequel, favourite characters and actors (instead of recasts) coming back to a Trek show with a budget they would have killed for back in the 90s lol, and the possibility of even having story/character sequel shows related to the other trek shows (eg Picard could visit DS9 or catchup with more Voyager crew members in seasons to come).

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Hands down the dumbest part of an already dumb movie.

Yep. It's reminiscent of how Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert wrote their nuDune space battles. Before spacefold technology was discovered, the ships traveled at sublight... and somehow time progressed at the same rate on board the ships and the planets they were traveling to and from.

Oh, and somehow the forces of Omnius were able to "completely surround" our galaxy in two dimensions.

It's easy to see that these books were aimed at KJA's Star Wars audience, rather than the older Original Dune readers. No science required, and if anyone questions the obvious mistakes, we're dismissed as "Talifans."

@Blake00: This is CFCOT. Arguments happen, conversation drifts (it usually meanders back to the OP; if this doesn't happen in a reasonable number of posts/pages, the mods will post a reminder). Some of us belong to other forums where this is the current argument of the day, and I'm not kidding that I belong to a forum where what people are saying here is quite tame by comparison.

Honestly, seeing this trailer makes me want to rewatch the entirety of Star Trek Continues (fan film series that re-creates the Original Series literally from the ending of "Turnabout Intruder" and finishes off the 5-year mission). I'd even prefer the Phase II/New Voyages fan films (some of them guest starred George Takei and Walter Koenig).

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I don't really understand why they went with hyperdrive kamikaze and also decided that taking down the dreadnaught wasn't enough, that it also had to somehow take out the entire fleet. Visually, it looked awesome but it was just nonsensical on the face of it, much less from a perspective of how silly it made all previous battles look. Like ok, blow up the dreadnaught with a suicide run but to make it also destroy every other ship was just odd, to put it mildly. They could have saved so many rebel ships by just sending the Mon Calamari or other cruisers into hyperdrive directly at the Death Star or whatever. Really, it was quite insulting to think that was going to fly (no pun intended) with non-child fans.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I don't really understand why they went with hyperdrive kamikaze and also decided that taking down the dreadnaught wasn't enough, that it also had to somehow take out the entire fleet. Visually, it looked awesome but it was just nonsensical on the face of it, much less from a perspective of how silly it made all previous battles look. Like ok, blow up the dreadnaught with a suicide run but to make it also destroy every other ship was just odd, to put it mildly. They could have saved so many rebel ships by just sending the Mon Calamari or other cruisers into hyperdrive directly at the Death Star or whatever. Really, it was quite insulting to think that was going to fly (no pun intended) with non-child fans.

Most of Hollywood has no respect for fans who can actually think. I've read two separate books about the making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture and at one point the studio suits wanted to include Mayan mysticism. When it was pointed out to them that they had their Mayan history completely wrong, the answer was, "So what? The audience will never know the difference."

Wrong. Thankfully that idea was dropped (although it seems that this is an attitude that prevails among some Doctor Who writers, that "the audience will never know the difference"; it's the reason I hate one of the Fifth Doctor stories and why I got disgusted with Doctor Who in general and stopped watching after Capaldi's horrible second season).

 

[rah]

I've read two separate books about the making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture and at one point the studio suits wanted to include Mayan mysticism.

Considering the final product, it might have helped.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That's probably bound to happen whenever you are targeting a more general audience than a niche fanbase. Both Star Wars and Star Trek went more general a long time ago (and I think it's fair to say that Star Wars was never really niche to begin with) but it seems that Disney is intent to make everything that isn't based on animation fit the molds created by their Marvel franchises.

Considering the final product, it might have helped.

Truly it was an awful movie and we're lucky the franchise survived it.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Hands down the dumbest part of an already dumb movie.

Didn't you spend about ten pages arguing against that position with me in that thread? Must be getting you mixed up with someone else maybe...

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You got me mixed up with someone else. I spent 10 pages arguing a fighter could not outrun a star destroyer based on the squared/cubed law of surface area to volume ratio.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Considering the final product, it might have helped.

Truly it was an awful movie and we're lucky the franchise survived it.

Hmm, one of my favourites actually. Certainly nothing since Star Trek VI has been as worth a watch.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

You got me mixed up with someone else. I spent 10 pages arguing a fighter could not outrun a star destroyer based on the squared/cubed law of surface area to volume ratio.

Too many arguments to keep track of. I need to start a spreadsheet.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

You'll probably sound different when you're almost 80, too.

Bit of a late reply, but he doesn't sound like that in interviews, so it's still rather odd to me.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Considering the final product, it might have helped.

Oh, was the final product "too cerebral"? Not enough phaser fights? Not enough women in their underwear (that gratuitous underwear scene in the second nuTrek movie was disgusting)? I'll grant you that we could have done without seeing Stephen Collins' anatomy through the front of his uniform pants, but other than that, I don't see what was so awful about it.

Truly it was an awful movie and we're lucky the franchise survived it.

What was "truly awful" about it? It was an excellent movie in terms of enabling Spock to finally reconcile his human and Vulcan halves.

 

[Broken_Erika]

The main problem was that they took a script for a 1-hour pilot for the cancelled Star Trek Phase Two and stretched it out into a full-length movie, and that they seemed to want to make 2001 A Space Odyssey rather than Star Trek. And most of all, it took itself waaaay too seriously.

 

[Blake00]

I'm one of those weird people who actually liked Star Trek 1, 3 and 5 haha. Probably helped that I first saw them as a kid in the 80s when EVERYTHING SPACE IS COOL lol. But of course like most ST 2, 4 and 6 were the favourites for me. I must have watched ST4 like a 100 times as a kid. The movie would finish and I'd just rewind it back to the beginning and start over. Drove my mum nuts haha!

That late 90s early 2000s ish special dvd only re-release of ST1 with scenes rearranged and new effects shots added was a nice improvement over the original. Movie flows much better and feels less crammed. Of course no one thought to do the effects in HD so the current bluray release is just the bloody original cut again.

Ironically I actually got more angry about the ships running out of fuel than the hyperspace suicide in Last Jedi. What's even funnier is that a few months later out comes Solo and the ship has fusion reactor as you'd expect so not only did Last Jedi contradict oldschool Star Wars it even contradicted other ******* Disney films haha. You think of all those moments in previous Star Wars films when ships jumped away at hyperspace to escape the clutches of the bad guys just time becuase they couldn't pursue. But now it's oh noooo they can follow us anywhere and we're gonna die cause we don't have enough 'petrol' lol.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Well after 69 there was no Star Trek for quite a while. And yeah, working cut into TV time. I was usually at the country club doing odd jobs from sun up to close to midnight 6 days a week.

The Animated Series came along in the early '70s, as did the first of the novels (not counting that lamentably bad one by Mack Reynolds that was marketed to children).

And while Spock having a girlfriend was so out of touch with the original, it gave the opportunity for some pretty good interactions that I found hilarious. I figured it was worth the trade off, but of course I don't take it quite as seriously as you seem to. To each their own.

I find the nuSpock/nuUhura relationship ludicrous for so many reasons. And the half of that relationship that's the worst is nuUhura. She whines about their relationship in every single movie while on duty. She whines about it on the bridge, in the shuttle, and every other damn place she can, and actually tells the captain to keep out of it while they're on duty and on a dangerous mission... and he meekly shuts up and takes it. The whole thing is so horribly unprofessional for a serious Starfleet officer who supposedly wants to be taken seriously and not have her career interfered with by her boyfriend, who is also one of her superior officers. It's really not a ringing endorsement for female officers being taken seriously and respectfully.

I hate nuCarol's underwear scene for the same basic reason. For some reason she doesn't just pull a pair of pants on before taking off her skirt, so of course that allows nuKirk to peek when she tells him to turn around. So when he does peek, instead of turning away (because she's supposedly modest), she just stands and poses for him while berating him. It's such a slap at the original Carol Marcus - a highly intelligent and professional scientist.

At the conventions I usually went for the hucksters and the women. My interactions with the authors were usually playing poker with them. Those games were always very entertaining. Great stories.

Which authors?

Your post reminds me of the chorus of one of the filksongs about conventions:

"I go for parties in the hallways
And for torrid, brief affairs,
For smoffing in the Con-suite
And for filking on the stairs!"

(and I'd be willing to bet that I'm probably the only person in this conversation who knows what "smoffing" means; it's not what most people think when they hear it)

I've done three of those things (parties, smoffing, and filking; the torrid brief affairs are not why I went to conventions).

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The main problem was that they took a script for a 1-hour pilot for the cancelled Star Trek Phase Two and stretched it out into a full-length movie, and that they seemed to want to make 2001 A Space Odyssey rather than Star Trek. And most of all, it took itself waaaay too seriously.

Took the words from my keyboard. It was boring, first and foremost. I think it's pretty obvious they were trying to outdo 2001 but they had none of the deep themes to work with, just a basic plot that they padded with gratuitous special effects that weren't really that groundbreaking or fun at the time.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

One thing I noticed about the TOS Trek movies (1 through VI) was that to older the actors got, the worse the acting became. None of them were stellar actors to begin with, but by the time they got to Star Trek VI it was just embarrassing to watch. The acting on ST:TNG was definitely better, thanks mostly to the efforts of Patrick Stewart, and DS9 and Voyager were pretty well done, acting wise. At least it wasn't like ST:TNG contained the ham fisted acting of the original series and TOS movies that made you lose the suspension of disbelief required to watch the show.

For an example of a beautifully acted episode of Trek, one only has to look to ST:TNG and the episode "The Inner Light". It was beautifully done, and I will submit that up to its time and for a while after, it was one of the finest hours of television ever put to video tape.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That episode....it's just....oh man it's so good I don't even have words

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I hate nuCarol's underwear scene for the same basic reason. For some reason she doesn't just pull a pair of pants on before taking off her skirt, so of course that allows nuKirk to peek when she tells him to turn around. So when he does peek, instead of turning away (because she's supposedly modest), she just stands and poses for him while berating him. It's such a slap at the original Carol Marcus - a highly intelligent and professional scientist.

Why is the assumption that "highly intelligent and professional scientists" don't like sex so prevalent?