Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
They do and all storms should be turned off by the "No Storms" option even blizzards and dust storms. On another point out trees don't change colour with the seasons.
New terrain features
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
They do and all storms should be turned off by the "No Storms" option even blizzards and dust storms. On another point out trees don't change colour with the seasons.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I tried the No Storms but i still get them when i have them checked to have NONE?
I have the NEW trees in C2C right now, that is supposed to change colors, but for some odd reason, more than likely missing python someplace, they dont change colors. Take a look at the new tree i out in a month or so ago, thx. I keep forgetting to ask this.
My point was that there is only a very limited amount of difference between placement at map start and spawning during the game in regards to the conditions you define for the spawn/placement event and there is little difference between placing/spawning bonuses, features or animals.
All of that could be handled by very similar/mostly the same code using an extended version of the SpawnInfos.xml.
The advantage is that after the effort to write that generic code XMLers can implement quite some interesting effects without a coder.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Yes, giving us tools like this makes modding much easier for people like me who are more or less limited to XML modding.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
There is no difference at the code level, it is just confusing when discussing, that is all.
The current spawn XML is only recourse based at the moment. Changing it is probably not too hard but will take time away from other things.
My post map script currently places
- goody islands - sea coastal 20% if goody huts are enabled
- walruses - polar sea coastal land 1 in every 4 seal locations
- seals - polar sea coastal land and any single plot island that is not a peak
- it also does reefs and kelp and a few other of the new terrain features.
Goody Islands are a special improvement, as will be ship wrecks (which will be placed on the map in game because of events). Seals and Walrus are resources.
If we were to put that in a Improvement/Resource Spawn XML we would need fields for
- option(s) when valid/invalid
- latitude - with the option of limiting to one hemisphere eg polar bears in the north and penguins in the south.
- plot nature - for example coastal is defined but it may be next to a lake. The plot may be both coastal for a lake and sea.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
Down in Louisiana, where I grew up, we have salt domes that are basically islands that can be mined for salt. That may be duplicated by the salt resource, but it's a distinct land feature. Swamp can also be different from marsh, not sure if you have covered that yet.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well there are a few terrain features that get placed on top of the marsh terrain. Different combos can create different types of wetlands such as ...
Pine + Marsh = Swamp Forest
Jungle + Marsh = Swamp Jungle
Sword Grass + Marsh = Everglades
Savanna + Marsh = ?
Bamboo + Marsh = ?
Coconut Palm + Marsh = ?
I mean there are all sorts of combos now. However Dancing Hoskuld did want to make a mangrove forest that I would assume could both grow on coats and in marsh.
Lexotan_sedlex
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
- Messages
- 178
Hello people..
What about the new mountains? It looks bad with the basic textures of game...just dont fit.. and the new texture of desert mess the pre made scenarios.. it looks weird because the new dunes terrain, i suggest a change, the dunes call desert and the new terrain call colorada or something like this. This earth is like Terra Roxa in brazil and is so much fertil
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tierra_colorada.
Well i sugest old textures of mountain (or other new what fits better) and the old desert to desert, the new terrain call some other thing, not desert.
What about the new mountains? It looks bad with the basic textures of game...just dont fit.. and the new texture of desert mess the pre made scenarios.. it looks weird because the new dunes terrain, i suggest a change, the dunes call desert and the new terrain call colorada or something like this. This earth is like Terra Roxa in brazil and is so much fertil
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tierra_colorada. Well i sugest old textures of mountain (or other new what fits better) and the old desert to desert, the new terrain call some other thing, not desert.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Lexotan_sedlex
That would mean having to add another terrain. Not to mention there would be no replacement texture for dunes. Desert was changed since the other desert looked more like dunes than the reddish terrain did and the reddish terrain at least looked like a type of desert. If you don't like the new desert terrain then replace all the desert tiles in the scenario to dunes. Should give a similar effect as the desert.
As for the Mountain terrains I agree with you but that was strategyonly's decision to change their appearance. It up to him if he wants them changed back. I personally am not one to talk since I am adding so many new terrains myself and would be hypocritical of me to except him to accept my terrain changes and not accept his. Thus my option is I like the old better but if its left with the new that's fine with me.
In short its easier to change the appear of the desert terrain that it would to change the desert to be called Dunes and then make a new terrain called Desert.
@AIANdy & Dancing Hoskuld
So what do we have left to get done before the update?
That would mean having to add another terrain. Not to mention there would be no replacement texture for dunes. Desert was changed since the other desert looked more like dunes than the reddish terrain did and the reddish terrain at least looked like a type of desert. If you don't like the new desert terrain then replace all the desert tiles in the scenario to dunes. Should give a similar effect as the desert.
As for the Mountain terrains I agree with you but that was strategyonly's decision to change their appearance. It up to him if he wants them changed back. I personally am not one to talk since I am adding so many new terrains myself and would be hypocritical of me to except him to accept my terrain changes and not accept his. Thus my option is I like the old better but if its left with the new that's fine with me.
In short its easier to change the appear of the desert terrain that it would to change the desert to be called Dunes and then make a new terrain called Desert.
@AIANdy & Dancing Hoskuld
So what do we have left to get done before the update?
It is certainly not something to do at once but it is something I could work on when I am finished with the map scripts.
Wouldn't an appearance and terrains set in the feature xml spawn the reefs, kelps and new terrain features fine?
It would pretty much need a collection of all the different tags that are already present for spawning/placement in bonus, feature, spawn info xml and some more.
- in/outside cultural borders
- spawn chance per turn
- extra spawn chance per adjacent terrain of type
- only next to river
- civic required if in cultural borders
- tech required if in cultural borders
- not in player fog of war
- unit type to spawn
- unit type to despawn (needs to be present on the plot if set)
- feature type to spawn
- feature type to despawn (needs to be present on the plot if set)
- terrain type to spawn
- terrain type to despawn (restores original terrain, stored once after map creation)
- bonus type to spawn
- bonus type to despawn
- terrain required on plot
- unit required on plot
- feature required on plot
- bonus required on plot (or for all those a list of alternatives)
- min/max time valid
In which file is the current animal spawning code implemented? Python or C++?
- Set all the new terrain types in the bonus info xml where appropriate
- Set the appearance chance and terrain types for the rock formations in their feature info xml
- Check the terrain info xml for the new terrains for proper settings (especially in regards to slowing)
- Prepare more map scripts for the new terrains
- Move the post map script code for seal/walrus/goody island to the map scripts
I'll continue working on points 3 and 4.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I can try. I did not even realize they had XML command s for those. I have a few questions though ...
1a. This would be editing the "core" bouns files right (Assets/XML/Terrain/CIV4BonusInfos)?
1b. To tell them where to "generate" you change <TerrainBooleans> and <FeatureBooleans> if you want them to generate in one of the new terrains or forests (like bamboo or sword grass)?
2. This would be the same <TerrainBooleans> and <FeatureBooleans> right? For instance for the FEATURE_POLAR_ROCK_ARCH it has tundra and snow already and I would add like permafrost too. Right?
3. I am unsure what you means for "proper settings (especially in regards to slowing)". Do you mean movements? Terrain like ice or dunes are suppose to be very slow. Everything got tweaked and are not the same as they were before, even the old terrains got tweaked.
C++
It's driven by the (new) spawn info tag in civ4...spawninfos.XML. The schema for the new tag is in the units schema as I recall. If you let me know a prioritization of the extra tags you need adding to spawninfo, I'll see what I can do after I get home next week. alternatively if you want to make changes yourself, you'll need to change:
- The spawn info schema
- The schema parsing and in memory cvspawninfo class in cvinfos.cop
- The implementation of the spawning in cvgame::do spawns()
If you need write access to the svn send me a personal message with your svn userid and I'll add you
Sounds right.
When I set up that terrain info xml for the new terrains I mainly wanted to see the art (to verify the map scripts work properly) so I did not properly set all the xml tags according to your plans. Among them movement. So someone should go over that and check if the values are correct.
Thank you. I'll give it a try when I am finished with the map scripts.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I already did this then. I looked it over and it still has all the changes I made to the new terrains.
Well I did #1 and #3 was already done (I checked them again). So I will do #2 tomorrow (or should I say later today) since it is getting very late for me.
EldrinFal
King
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2011
- Messages
- 926
It isn't hypocritical dude.
It's a collective effort to produce the best results we can; to push people to do better. Working in any kind of creative environment, you have to be able to take criticism as well as give it. It isn't personal, it's an attempt to help improve the work. To make C2C the best it can be. Besides, StrategyOnly is a good guy and I'm sure he's not going to just turn on you because you suggested one of his additions can be improved upon.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
I hope we all have some place here, and that you are open to my input. I have been lurking these forums forever and want to help, not hurt the process.
It is the mod maker's mod and their choice, but i believe they want our help to improve and make it better, i.e. see things they don't and do things they don't have time to do.
The best thing is to focus on what we agree upon and not what divides us. Better use of our time and it keeps us all moving forward.
We could create a side subforum for disagreements and slowly discuss them aside to keep from disrupting C2C's momentum of positive growth.
We do need a little positive challenge, and a consensus will build a better common ground that will attract more people to C2C.
I agree with EldrinFal, a little disagreement (that we resolve) can get us a better choice. The mod makers can make the harsher decisions for the sake of time/ implementation and a side thread can be a good place to resolve it, by brainstorming.
I also believe that the common deserts should look like sandy dunes. However, not all deserts look alike, many have similiar rainfall, but temperature or soil composition differences. Heck the Mongolian desert is composed of soil and has a strong ability to support a wide variety of life.
In that vein of thought , please consider the seasonal changing of trees, i.e. the beautiful colors of fall leaves, and the budding in spring.
I love seeing trees change in the fall, in the right parts of the world, and the coming of winter could affect food bonsues, and timing to go to war.
I really like the idea of seasonal changes, spices up the game a little for the player over time.
Gradual minor climate shifts could give the game a good sense of progression. The dark ages may have been influenced by a small global cooling trend.
Arabia / middle east, civlizations were strongly affected by climatic shifts. Difference between desert/droughts and sustainable flood plains.
Changing conditions are interesting.
Ice on a river or a blizzard could affect whether an army attacks? Make the game a little more interesting, no?
It is the mod maker's mod and their choice, but i believe they want our help to improve and make it better, i.e. see things they don't and do things they don't have time to do.
The best thing is to focus on what we agree upon and not what divides us. Better use of our time and it keeps us all moving forward.
We could create a side subforum for disagreements and slowly discuss them aside to keep from disrupting C2C's momentum of positive growth.
We do need a little positive challenge, and a consensus will build a better common ground that will attract more people to C2C.
I agree with EldrinFal, a little disagreement (that we resolve) can get us a better choice. The mod makers can make the harsher decisions for the sake of time/ implementation and a side thread can be a good place to resolve it, by brainstorming.
I also believe that the common deserts should look like sandy dunes. However, not all deserts look alike, many have similiar rainfall, but temperature or soil composition differences. Heck the Mongolian desert is composed of soil and has a strong ability to support a wide variety of life.
In that vein of thought , please consider the seasonal changing of trees, i.e. the beautiful colors of fall leaves, and the budding in spring.
I love seeing trees change in the fall, in the right parts of the world, and the coming of winter could affect food bonsues, and timing to go to war.
I really like the idea of seasonal changes, spices up the game a little for the player over time.
Gradual minor climate shifts could give the game a good sense of progression. The dark ages may have been influenced by a small global cooling trend.
Arabia / middle east, civlizations were strongly affected by climatic shifts. Difference between desert/droughts and sustainable flood plains.
Changing conditions are interesting.
Ice on a river or a blizzard could affect whether an army attacks? Make the game a little more interesting, no?
climat
King
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2009
- Messages
- 736
Some observation about resource placement (I just looked through xmls)
1. Deer and Olive are placed on only Forest tiles and Hemp can be placed on forest. There isn't Scrub+Forest tile, and forest in Scrub doesn't make sense.
So, this in Deer, Olive, Hemp (Cannabis in xml) part doesn't have any effect.
2. Pig in Scrub. It seems little weird to me.
3. I think any minerals can be placed on Barren, Rocky, Dune, Permafrost also.
4. You make Sulfur and Obsidian placed only in Barren and Rocky? I'm not sure that is a good idea.. Joseph said Sulfur was rare enough to unbalance game (since Gunpowder Units require Sulfur).
5. Oil, Uranium, Copper, Lead can be placed on Permafrost, but not on Permafrost+Forest currently. Is this intentional?
6. I'm not sure about Salt placement.. It could be really rare unless salt is placed on every Salt Flat tile.
7. I think Mammoth should be placed on Snow also.
PerfectWorld map scripts don't place Mammoth.
I like the old one more, too.
1. Deer and Olive are placed on only Forest tiles and Hemp can be placed on forest. There isn't Scrub+Forest tile, and forest in Scrub doesn't make sense.
Code:
<FeatureTerrainBoolean>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_SCRUB</TerrainType>
<bFeatureTerrain>1</bFeatureTerrain>
</FeatureTerrainBoolean>So, this in Deer, Olive, Hemp (Cannabis in xml) part doesn't have any effect.
2. Pig in Scrub. It seems little weird to me.
3. I think any minerals can be placed on Barren, Rocky, Dune, Permafrost also.
4. You make Sulfur and Obsidian placed only in Barren and Rocky? I'm not sure that is a good idea.. Joseph said Sulfur was rare enough to unbalance game (since Gunpowder Units require Sulfur).
5. Oil, Uranium, Copper, Lead can be placed on Permafrost, but not on Permafrost+Forest currently. Is this intentional?
6. I'm not sure about Salt placement.. It could be really rare unless salt is placed on every Salt Flat tile.
7. I think Mammoth should be placed on Snow also.
PerfectWorld map scripts don't place Mammoth.
I like the old one more, too.
Lexotan_sedlex
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
- Messages
- 178
It isn't hypocritical dude.
Besides, StrategyOnly is a good guy and I'm sure he's not going to just turn on you because you suggested one of his additions can be improved upon.
When i suggest the mountains change i wanna say the actual mountains dont fit with the rest of landscape, its not cosmetical but technical, looks like the mipmaps dont work or the resolution of texture its too high.. someone knows the resolution of texture? i guess is like 2000x1500 or something like this...
