New Version - February 10th (v. 2/10)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

New version inbound with some big bugfixes and balance changes. Here's the rundown:

Bugs:

• Fixed some bugs related to buildings and the 'yield from construction' element of a few policies
• Pioneers/Colonists no longer grant gold/culture for their starting buildings, and 'spoof' buildings (i.e. buildings with a production cost of -1) do not grant this bonus. No longer gain bonuses for buildings granted for free (i.e. via policies or decisions) or buildings purchased. Buildings must actually be produced (with Production) to garner the benefit.
• Fixed text in policy tooltips regarding ideologies, fixed text error in piety
• Fixed text error in EUI that made 'Population Growth' become 'Font of Dharma' (bc1 cut a corner on that txt_key )
• Fixed bug in E&D related to reported crash
• Cities that are in resistance or being razed should now properly count towards unhappiness (1 unhappiness per population in the city)

AI:

• Slight tweak to fort placement algorithm to allow for a greater chance of replacement with a yield-producing improvement (if necessary)
• Added Fort function and yield memory adjustments from Ilteroi
• Fixed 'false gift' AI bug in C4DF.

Policies:
Might

• Tribute now grants Production and Gold instead of Food and Gold
• Removed -25% policy costs from Might finisher (needed to be balanced against Tradition/Liberty finishers)
• Moved Culture from City conquest from Opener to Finisher
• Removed population scaling from 'yield from city conquest'
• Combat bonus vs. Barbs now 25% (was 33%), removed 'reveal encampments buff' (as the AI can't really take advantage of this, so it gives the player too much of an advantage when hunting camps)

Tradition

• 'per 5 citizens in capital' policies now per 4 citizens (slight buff)

Liberty

• City planning now grants 25 Culture in Capital (instead of GAP) from birth

Piety

• removed 'secondary pantheon' element from finisher, replaced with: Religious Buildings purchased with Faith grant +1 Happiness (includes Monastery). Removed because of randomness of bonus (impossible for player to control) and utility based on pantheon structure as it is now. In short, it wasn't terribly meaningful, and was impossible to manage. Not fun.

Patronage

• finisher now also grants: All Specialists produce +1 Culture. (Patronage was hurting for culture, and this meshes well with 'patron' concept).

Aesthetics

• Opener: Earn Great Writers, Artists, and Musicians 5% faster, with each additional Aesthetics policy unlock increasing this by 5%. Receive a large amount of Culture every time you expend a Great Person. Unlocks building the Uffizi. Adopting all policies doubles the theming bonus you receive from Museums and Wonders, and reveals hidden antiquity sites. It also allows the purchase of Great Musicians with Faith starting in the Industrial Era.
  
• Humanities: All Culture buildings that can hold Great Works produce +3 Science. All Great Works produce +1 Gold.
  
• Public Galleries: 100% of excess Happiness added each turn to the amount of Culture that may be spent on Social Policies. +1 Happiness from Museums.
  
• Flourishing of the Arts: World Wonders earn +5 Culture, +1 Culture in all cities, and the empire immediately enters a Golden Age.
  
• National Treasure: A Great Person of your choice appears near your Capital. +1 Culture and +1 Production from GP improvements.
  
• Cultural Exchange: Increases the Tourism modifier for shared religion, trade routes, and open borders by 25% each.

Autocracy

• Adjusted yield from border growth in Lebensraum

Beliefs:

Minor balance adjustments to pantheons (See below)

• 
  [*]-- Goddess of the Hunt
  
• +1 Faith and +1 Food from Camps
  
  [*]-- Fertility Rites
  
• +2 Faith from Granaries, and 10% faster Growth Rate
  
  [*]-- God of Craftsmen
  
• +1 Faith for every 10 Gold per turn, and +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
  
  [*]-- God of the Sea
  
• +1 Faith from Fishing Boats and +2 Production in coastal Cities
  
  [*]-- God of the Open Sky
  
• +1 Faith from Pastures and +2 Food from Stables
  
  [*]-- Messenger of the Gods
  
• +2 Faith and +2 Science in cities with a City Connection
  
  [*]-- One With Nature
  
• +4 Faith and +2 Culture from Natural Wonders
  
  [*]-- Goddess of Wisdom
  
• +1 Faith for every 10 Science per turn, and +2 Science in Capital
  
  [*]-- Stone Circles
  
• +2 Faith from Quarries, and +2 Production from Stone Works
  
  [*]-- God of War
  
• +2 Science from Barracks, and gain Faith if you win a battle
  
  [*]-- Places of Power
  
• +2 Faith from Mountains, Oases, and Atolls, and +1 Happiness from Cities on rivers
  
  [*]-- Goddess of Love
  
• Gain 5 Faith and 3 Golden Age Points every time a Citizen is born. Bonus scales with Era'
  
  [*]-- Religious Settlements
  
• +10% faster border growth, and gain 5 Faith every time a city expands its borders. Bonus scales with Era
  
  [*]-- God of Festivals
  
• +1 Faith and +2 Culture from every unique Luxury Resource you own
  
  [*]-- Oral Tradition
  
• +1 Faith from Plantations, and +2 Culture from Markets
  
  [*]-- Ancestor Worship
  
• +1 Faith for every 5 Citizens in a city, and +2 Production in Capital
  
  [*]-- Desert Folklore
  
• 1 Faith and +2 Gold from Desert tiles with improved resources
  
  [*]-- Sacred Path
  
• +1 Faith from Jungles, +1 Culture from Forests
  
  [*]-- Goddess of Protection
  
• +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength, and +2 Faith from Walls
  
  [*]-- Faith Healers
  
• +10 HP healed per turn in friendly territory. Gain 2 Faith when healed this way. Bonus scales with Era
  
  [*]-- Monuments to the Gods
  
• +3 Faith from World Wonders, and +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders'
  
  [*]-- Dance of the Aurora
  
• +1 Faith and +2 Food from Tundra tiles with improved resources
  
  [*]-- Polytheism
  
• +2 Faith and +1 Happiness in Capital, and +1 Happiness for every known Civilization with a Pantheon
  
  [*]-- Earth Mother
  
• +1 Faith from Mines on improved resources, and +3 Gold from Shrines'
  
  [*]-- God-King
  
• Palace provides +2 to these yields: Culture, Faith, Gold, Production, Science
  
  [*]-- Sun God
  
• +1 Food and +1 Faith from Farms on improved resources, and +2 Faith in the Capital

Techs: Adjusted tech costs (scaled a little more sharply towards end game)

Units:

• Landship/Tank/Panzer/Modern Armor adjusted (CS) - 55, 75, 85, 110, respectively
• Admiral movespeed increased by 1 (via promotion)
• Adjusted Turtle Ship to give it the correct techs and stats
• Barbarian units slightly weaker overall
• Incan Slinger slightly weaker than Archer now
• Impi CS now 28 (was 30)

Zulu: Buffalo Chest/Loins promotions buffed - Chest now affects all types of terrain, and Loins now grants +15/+50% bonuses (where applicable)

New version will be online around 4:30pm EST (2/10).

Cheers,
G

 

[Llednar Twem]

Will it be simple to edit some mod files to add back in the 'reveal encampments buff' from the might opener, or would it require something like writing the entire code of the effect back in? I absolutely love that effect, and don't really care if the AI can't use it well. Very little annoys me more than having barbarians suddenly pour into my territory without warning because I failed to reveal one forest tile.

 

[Gazebo]

Will it be simple to edit some mod files to add back in the 'reveal encampments buff' from the might opener, or would it require something like writing the entire code of the effect back in? I absolutely love that effect, and don't really care if the AI can't use it well. Very little annoys me more than having barbarians suddenly pour into my territory without warning because I failed to reveal one forest tile.

It'd be pretty simple yes - just go to the Honor.sql file (in the Policies/Honor folder of the CBP) and delete this:

UPDATE Policies
SET AlwaysSeeBarbCamps = 'false'
WHERE Type = 'POLICY_HONOR' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_POLICIES' AND Value= 1 );

G

 

[Funak]

Thanks for finally tuning down the barbs, was about to lose my when I realized that the barb archers had higher RCS and CS than my archers in my game today

One note about pantheons. I have never picked it, mostly because I think it's terrible, but the Sun god pantheon really doesn't compare to the other pantheons. It affects one resource, which honestly isn't that common to start with, and gives you a earlygame boost in your capital. Compare that to any of the other +yield on improvement pantheons and they all affect multiple resources while also providing a bonus to a building, something that can be built in multiple cities, meaning it will eventually trump the 2 faith in the capital.


Also I have no idea if you read this in that other thread or if it is even possible, but please consider removing the era-scaling on the yield from citygrowth/bordergrowth and instead base it on population(for the citygrowth yields) or number of border expands/total culture in the city(for bordergrowth yields)



EDIT: Also I started a new game 4 hours ago, damn you

 

[Gazebo]

One note about pantheons. I have never picked it, mostly because I think it's terrible, but the Sun god pantheon really doesn't compare to the other pantheons. It affects one resource, which honestly isn't that common to start with, and gives you a earlygame boost in your capital. Compare that to any of the other +yield on improvement pantheons and they all affect multiple resources while also providing a bonus to a building, something that can be built in multiple cities, meaning it will eventually trump the 2 faith in the capital.

Indeed. Ideally an additional farm bonus resource should exist (rice, corn, etc.), but that's a bigger task. An easier bonus would be to add +1 faith to the +1 food for wheat, and keep the +2 faith in capital as-is.

Also I have no idea if you read this in that other thread or if it is even possible, but please consider removing the era-scaling on the yield from citygrowth/bordergrowth and instead base it on population(for the citygrowth yields) or number of border expands/total culture in the city(for bordergrowth yields)

I've adjusted bordergrowth quite a bit in the latest version - it is much more balanced late-game.
G

 

[Funak]

Indeed. Ideally an additional farm bonus resource should exist (rice, corn, etc.), but that's a bigger task. An easier bonus would be to add +1 faith to the +1 food for wheat, and keep the +2 faith in capital as-is.

It could be combined with the growth/faith from graneries pantheon, might get too powerful, but then again there are quite a few really powerful pantheons.

I've adjusted bordergrowth quite a bit in the latest version - it is much more balanced late-game.

You do what you want . I just thought I had a good idea so I went with it.

 

[40sw4rm]

I have to say, I love the beliefs balances. I'm really looking forward to the synergy of playing as India and adopting fertility rites from the get-go. I won't have to worry about BOTH a shrine and a granary to get that +2 faith with the belief anymore.

 

[Funak]

I have to say, I love the beliefs balances. I'm really looking forward to the synergy of playing as India and adopting fertility rites from the get-go. I won't have to worry about BOTH a shrine and a granary to get that +2 faith with the belief anymore.

India suffered greatly from resources being hidden at the start of the game however, they must pick a pantheon completely into the dark, usually makes me pick Religious Settlements, Goddess of Love or Sacred path(if jungle is present)


BTW, was the Asthetics overhaul in this patch or did I just miss it in an earlier version?

 

[Zeppelin4]

Anyone else getting a CTD on a restart of map?

 

[Funak]

Anyone else getting a CTD on a restart of map?

I've gotten CTD on restarts every 2 or 3 times since always, think Gazebo mentioned before that you shouldn't use the restart tool anyways.

 

[Funak]

Not sure if this would be considered a bug or not. But with the Asthetics opener I got 30 culture for expending a great person, I would hardly call that a "large amount"

 

[ilteroi]

i think the crashes are related to e&d? at least mine went away after disabling it. it's broken anyway

 

[Llednar Twem]

Not sure if this would be considered a bug or not. But with the Asthetics opener I got 30 culture for expending a great person, I would hardly call that a "large amount"

I'm fairly sure it used to give significantly more...but nothing in the notes mentions a nerf, and a nerf is hardly what aesthetics of all things needs anyway. Alternatively I could just be imagining things and it was always that small.

 

[skodkim]

Are you sure the AI has no knowledge about the whereabouts of barbarian camps even without taking the policy? I've always thought they we're pretty good at tracking them down.

Anyways I'm really not sure about this nerf to Might: A) I think the AI was good at tracking down camps anyway, B) If the AI did not any magical knowledge of unrevealed camps they would have the same benefits of taking the policy as human players (I guess), C) It was also good to know where camps were when sending out workers/settlers and D) Establishing trade routes becomes far more risky when you have no idea about the location of barbarian camps.

\Skodkim

 

[supracseduch]

I've played a couple of CP games, and I'm becoming increasingly concerned about how powerful religion is. Religion is becoming a must-have despite there being a limited number of allowed religions in the game. In BNW, atheist strategies were completely viable because it allows you to be more focused on your goals whereas religious civs have more holistic strengths which allowed them to be more flexible. Overall, founding a religion was not (and should not) be necessary to win.

The pantheons are especially powerful compared to how they were in the past, and they even got buffed this patch. I saw them as being necessarily weak beliefs that rewards religious civs with a minor bonus for their efforts, while those who don't build shrines are not too far behind.

Don't get me wrong, I like most of the changes that the Community Patch made. It's just that I feel my options get slightly limited by the fact that pantheons are too good to pass up.

 

[Funak]

I've played a couple of CP games, and I'm becoming increasingly concerned about how powerful religion is. Religion is becoming a must-have despite there being a limited number of allowed religions in the game. In BNW, atheist strategies were completely viable because it allows you to be more focused on your goals whereas religious civs have more holistic strengths which allowed them to be more flexible. Overall, founding a religion was not (and should not) be necessary to win.

The pantheons are especially powerful compared to how they were in the past, and they even got buffed this patch. I saw them as being necessarily weak beliefs that rewards religious civs with a minor bonus for their efforts, while those who don't build shrines are not too far behind.

Don't get me wrong, I like most of the changes that the Community Patch made. It's just that I feel my options get slightly limited by the fact that pantheons are too good to pass up.

I skip religion around half my games, I don't see any problem with it assuming you can get some AIs religion before industrial era atleast

 

[Llednar Twem]

Ok, so...the culture half alone of ceremonial burial's GP expenditure effect seems to be around 50 when the Aesthetics opener is giving 30. I'm absolutely certain that the aesthetics opener used to give significantly MORE culture than that effect...which is reasonable as Aestetics is all about culture, and the culture from ceremonial burial is only half the effect. It seems to have been dramatically reduced with no mention or explanation.

 

[Funak]

Ok, so...the culture half alone of ceremonial burial's GP expenditure effect seems to be around 50 when the Aesthetics opener is giving 30. I'm absolutely certain that the aesthetics opener used to give significantly MORE culture than that effect...which is reasonable as Aestetics is all about culture, and the culture from ceremonial burial is only half the effect. It seems to have been dramatically reduced with no mention or explanation.

It seems to be 30 per era minus ancient era, so 30 in classical, 60 in medieval and 90 in renaissance. Still pretty damn low.

 

[supracseduch]

I skip religion around half my games, I don't see any problem with it assuming you can get some AIs religion before industrial era atleast

You skip Pantheons? This only seems viable if the AI spreads its religion to you really fast.

You said it yourself, there are indeed very powerful pantheons. Shrines are practically required. For the cost of a few production points/gold, you gain one of these very powerful basic beliefs that are of themselves worth two or more classical era buildings. The payoff is too much.

(Note that this is not necessarily a balance issue, since everyone has equal access to Pantheons. It's just that the presence of powerful pantheons seems to restrict the early game strategical options.)

 

[Funak]

You skip Pantheons? This only seems viable if the AI spreads its religion to you really fast.

You said it yourself, there are indeed very powerful pantheons. Shrines are practically required. For the cost of a few production points/gold, you gain one of these very powerful basic beliefs that are of themselves worth two or more classical era buildings. The payoff is too much.

(Note that this is not necessarily a balance issue, since everyone has equal access to Pantheons. It's just that the presence of powerful pantheons seems to restrict the early game strategical options.)

I usually skip pantheons, mostly because I think the shrine is terrible. The times I get a religion it is usually because I got a pantheon from either an ancient ruin, an event, a natural wonder, a citystate, a unique building or if I build the stonehenge.
Again I'm not saying that is an optimal way of playing, but that's how I play.