New Version - July 1st (7-1)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

New version inbound:

Bugfixes/Enhancements:

• Fixed DOF message sometimes being negative (i.e. untrustworthy) on first DOF.
• Ranged attack on unit no longer breaks unit fortify
• Removed passable value lake victoria (silly units fortify on lake victoria too much)
• Fixed espionage trigger from tech (text of 'spies detected') -- fixed
• Added Diplomacy trigger for 'sneak attacks' to help AI realize it needs to build units for a sneak attack.
• Fixed some odd and/or incorrect text
• Adjusted city value in deals to more clearly favor previously owned cities (esp. if vassal)
• Open borders still not breaking even on offer -fixed
• More work on preventing auto-scouts from causing DOW popups
• Fixed trade route lua bug (small one)
• AI now remembers how to make mean demands again - will make an army and push it towards you out of a desire to 'force' you (or the AI) to give it something or else.
• AI can now refuse said AI demand, leading to denunciations and/or war in some cases.
• AI less likely to abandon war desire if it wants war (fewer aborted operations)
• Some more logic changes for AI regarding military strength relative to another player.
• Early AI expansion bug fixed (building a sneak attack army too quickly tied up warriors necessary for escorts)
• Addressed bugfixes and feature requests from github (most of them)
• Adjusted AI responses to bad behavior to be a bit more strict (should force a few earlier wars, and also make the AI more likely to DOW for issues aside from land complaints)
• Flipped art for metal casting/steel/metallurgy to...make sense.
• Fixed railroad connection bug (reverted to slower logic for now)
• Fixed conscription bug (turns out creating a unit without a creation point means...no unit!)
• Fixed Peace Treaties that are 'white' peace not having any value (and being discarded by AI)
• Added indicator for CSs with franchise (like major civ cities) in trade route picker.

Balance:

• Flipped Open Borders logic - tourism increase now comes from selling open borders, not buying it.
• Todo: test to make sure AI 'gets it' - I've flipped all relevant AI logic, but sometimes things are icky.
• Spies operating in Civs with open borders travel twice as fast, steal techs 20% more quickly, and are slightly more powerful when performing advanced actions.
• Trade Units trading with cities that you have mutual open borders with produce +20% gold (+10% if open borders in only one-way), and the other player gains 10% more gold (5% if one-way)
• Ramped up tech happiness bump a little bit.
• Piety:
• +4 happiness from religious national wonders (finisher) - replaces happiness from faith buildings (scaled too much for large empires)
• Removed free monastery from Monasticism

Outstanding UI bug: city banner/leader tooltips sometimes duplicate all data (EUI) - not sure why (yet). Waiting for assistance from bc1.


Diplomacy AI change above added a new DLL memory bit, so this isn't savegame compatible.

Online as of 10:35pm EST.

G

 

[Delekhan]

Yay to the city value fix! Thank you.

And the open borders spy change really makes sense.

What's the tech happiness bump you mention?

Also aside from the Grand Temple, what national wonders are considered Religious?

Does Monasticism still allow to purchase monasteries with faith?

 

[Gazebo]

Yay to the city value fix! Thank you.

And the open borders spy change really makes sense.

What's the tech happiness bump you mention?

Also aside from the Grand Temple, what national wonders are considered Religious?

Does Monasticism still allow to purchase monasteries with faith?

1.) Welcome. We'll see if it sticks.

2.) Yep! Cheers to that thread's convincing-ness.

3.) All the religious national wonders for founders

4.) Yep! You just don't get a free one. Piety was a little too strong (universally) compared to the other mid-game policy branches.

G

 

[Gazebo]

Also, I should note that there are a couple of problems with Merlin's flavors mod. It is leading to a few really aberrant flavors, so I wouldn't use it at the current time.

G

 

[Funak]

4.) Yep! You just don't get a free one. Piety was a little too strong (universally) compared to the other mid-game policy branches.

I was planning to write a full thread analyzing all the policies in the game, this one was clearly on the list, but there are/were more problems to deal with and I'm afraid this is just going to create more unbalance until that gets dealt with.

Also, I should note that there are a couple of problems with Merlin's flavors mod. It is leading to a few really aberrant flavors, so I wouldn't use it at the current time.

Poor Merlin

 

[Gazebo]

Re-uploaded 7-1 CP with a small bugfix I didn't catch. Is savegame compatible, so update freely.

G

 

[Crimson13]

If I may ask what was the earlier deal with happiness with faith buildings? I know some reduced things like Disorder (The Order building, I think.) but I forgot about the rest.

 

[Natan35]

About that "desires war" thing... In my current game, the AI didn't agree to peace until I got his last city to red. Even though he had no army, and I have conquered all of his cities.
Im also seeing more and more AI settlers that simply stay in their territory.

 

[Strigvir]

While you at it, could you reduce required population for religious NWs to 10%, or remove it entirely?
Some religions won't have a chance to build them if they won't take "expander" believes.
In the end if a civ really wants additional votes, it will convert as much cities as it could.

 

[Funak]

While you at it, could you reduce required population for religious NWs to 10%, or remove it entirely?
Some religions won't have a chance to build them if they won't take "expander" believes.

They aren't supposed to always be buildable.

 

[Strigvir]

Except the change to Piety assumes they are.

 

[supracseduch]

While you at it, could you reduce required population for religious NWs to 10%, or remove it entirely?
Some religions won't have a chance to build them if they won't take "expander" believes.
In the end if a civ really wants additional votes, it will convert as much cities as it could.

Because the Reformation Beliefs are extremely powerful, that's why the condition for getting them should be difficult. 10% seems too low. If there are 8 players in the game, then all you need to do (assuming roughly equal populations in each major civ and also a rough assumption that the total population from CS's is equal to that of two major civs) is to convert your own citizens, without bothering much with other people, because your population alone accounts for 10% of the world population in this rough estimate.

I think the whole religion aspect was intended to be pretty weak because not all empires will get to found one. They're weak so that not everyone will feel "forced" to found a religion. Example: the Pantheons are intended to be small rewards you get for building early Shrines, but the Pantheons should not be too powerful that Shrines are practically required.

They are weak but they do get stronger the more invested you are in them, because you should be getting your just rewards for investing in faith. The CBP Reformation Beliefs are the most powerful beliefs out there and are almost game-breaking, so the requirements for accessing them are very stringent. I'd say they're about as powerful as level 2-3 ideological tenets but are potentially available much earlier.

As for the slight change in the Piety finisher: since you managed to make it that far into the Piety tree, you ought to be able to reach the population requirement for reformation, so it's not so unreasonable to assume that you can benefit from this change.

I have a few (minor) problems with the current religion system though. I'll list them next time.

 

[hewkii9]

Except the change to Piety assumes they are.

Yeah, but Piety is the tree specifically for religions. If you're completing it without evangelizing (especially considering how much less annoying the AI is here; thank you Gazebo!) that doesn't make much sense.

 

[Strigvir]

that's why the condition for getting them should be difficult. 10% seems too low. If there are 8 players in the game, then all you need to do (assuming roughly equal populations in each major civ and also a rough assumption that the total population from CS's is equal to that of two major civs) is to convert your own citizens, without bothering much with other people, because your population alone accounts for 10% of the world population in this rough estimate.

And if I have 22 players in the game I have to spread it around 30-40 cities. So the problem is scaling?

As for the slight change in the Piety finisher: since you managed to make it that far into the Piety tree, you ought to be able to reach the population requirement for reformation, so it's not so unreasonable to assume that you can benefit from this change.

That's not the "slight" change though. It literally took away around 30 bonus happiness from wide empires. Also I get a reformation belief around late Renaissance/Industrial era, unless I was very lucky with ruins and could get "spreader" beliefs before anyone could establish a religion.

 

[UnderKingDuck]

I think I might have encountered a few bugs with this build. When I was playing yesterday on the "CBP 6-21" and using Emissaries they where grants 20 influence points from diplomatic missions. But when I tried a new game with the new build they where giving 100 influence for diplomatic missions. Also in the same game I was getting one Great Diplomat unit every turn during a golden age.

Other then all that though this mod is really good and just further upsets me that we can not use mods online in civ 5. lol

 

[ecgopher]

They aren't supposed to always be buildable.

The number really needs to scale based on map size / number of starting civs. Games with 20 civs and 30 CSs rarely have ANY of the religions get a reformation belief, other than from St. Basil's.

 

[Funak]

The number really needs to scale based on map size / number of starting civs. Games with 20 civs and 30 CSs rarely have ANY of the religions get a reformation belief, other than from St. Basil's.

Possibly needs to scale with map-size, as mapsize affects number of religions. Number of civs shouldn't matter at all

 

[Gazebo]

I think I might have encountered a few bugs with this build. When I was playing yesterday on the "CBP 6-21" and using Emissaries they where grants 20 influence points from diplomatic missions. But when I tried a new game with the new build they where giving 100 influence for diplomatic missions. Also in the same game I was getting one Great Diplomat unit every turn during a golden age.

Other then all that though this mod is really good and just further upsets me that we can not use mods online in civ 5. lol

Sounds like you didn't clear your cache.

Also, the MPMPM is coming along.

G

 

[UnderKingDuck]

Sounds like you didn't clear your cache.

Also, the MPMPM is coming along.

G

Clearing the cache seem to have helped. Thanks! Also I did not know about this MPMPM.

 

[Strigvir]

Number of civs shouldn't matter at all

Except more civs = more population required to convert.