[BTS] News: BOTM 145 (Deity) Results and Congratulations

[DynamicSpirit]

For this deity game, we had an extraordinary set of losses, but greatbeyond beat everyone to achieve the coveted red ambulance, with a 1420 AD conquest loss. Hats off to greatbeyond for surviving for so long, and persevering through what must’ve been some very difficult playing.

At the other end of the scale, afker won the green ambulance with an 1844 AD cultural loss. Indeed, this makes afker the longest-surviving player in this game, comfortably beating donsig, who lived until 1675 AD before succumbing to a religious defeat. Meanwhile, congratulations to kcd_swede for securing the fastest loss – in 840AD. Sadly, we don’t have an award for that. Bit of an oversight really on our part, but there you go. Mentions to MarleysGh0st, Xcalibrator and UB40 who all submitted retired games. I’m guessing you guys all desperately wanted to play on to the inevitable defeats but simply ran out of time. Real life can be such a pain, can’t it!

So those are the results this month. Mapmaker One. Players Zerrrrrrrr...

Er – hang on. There seems to be something wrong…

What?

Surely, it can’t be.

Let me double check.

Oh.

Umm – folks … it appears we have a problem. Someone played this game, didn’t retire, and actually failed to lose the game! Weird, huh.

Yes, amazing congratulations to….

Fippy

Fippy secured a 1430AD conquest victory, securing the gold medal, the fastest conquest award, the cow award, and the lowest-scoring conquest shield. If we had an award for ‘the only victory’ Fippy would have won that too, but sadly we don’t. At any rate, this time round, Fippy is truly the Lord of the GOTMs!

Summary of Medal Winners:

Fippy: 1430 AD Conquest Victory, 275,634 points.


Other Award Winners:

afker: 1844 AD Cultural Loss, 3,674 points.

greatbeyond: 1420 AD Conquest Loss, 226 points.


>> See the full results here.
>> See the updated global rankings here.
>> See the latest Pantheon of Heroes here.
>> You can see and compare graphic replays of all the submissions here.
>> Award symbols are listed here.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Here's where everyone settled. Somewhat to my relief, everyone settled in a place that let you get the hidden deer, which I'd hinted in the pre-game discussion was there, but hadn't told you where.

The Small Print:
The numbers by each player's name indicate the turn settled on (starting turn is 0). Players are colour coded by game class (challenger=red, adventurer=blue). Symbols indicate victory condition, if there's no symbol then the player either retired or was defeated. The yellow border indicates the land that was visible at the start of the game.

 

[lymond]

Way to go, My!

And yes, hats off to swede for losing in record time!

 

[Pangaea]

Exceedingly impressive, Fippy!

Surprised at how quickly several of the others have played, going way into the ADs in barely an hour.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Very well done, Fippy!!!

Great game, mapmaker! Let's have more like that so we can see some more victories.

Sorry I forgot to submit. Pity too, because you'd have extended that picture up about ten tiles!!!

 

[Fippy]

Merci guys, Dynamic Spirit you could also get an award for your very creative and funny post

 

[kcd_swede]

Way to go, My!

And yes, hats off to swede for losing in record time!

Finally... my first "fastest finish" award at Deity level.

Great job Fippy!

 

[greatbeyond]

I was surprised anyone was able to win, until I read Fippy's writeup. Making matters worse Fippy won in the same amount of time I lost. I seemed to have been doing OK, hoping for a miracle and finally gaining some ground when Churchill, who I was good friends with, decided to eliminate me.

Inspired by Fippy, but lacking finer details about how she won (lacking the skill too (who said that?)), I replayed this about 20 times, winning only once by UN vote. The strategy that worked out best was moving the starting settler about 5 turns until I settled about 5 tiles away from Quin keeping him away from copper and eventually eliminating him first and getting about one third of the map, though this method wasn't always a success.

I think this was probably the hardest Deity XOTM I ever played, despite the generous gift of the deer in the BFC. If your ever unsure of what kind of gifts to give players I could probably help out!

One thing that has always puzzled me about the scoring is why a higher score can be had by retiring when one sees things about to go to hell, than playing longer and getting wiped off the map. Of course I haven't seen any comparison of that, which means somewhere here there is probably a post discussing just that.

It goes against my principles to just give up. I make them hurt their sword arms by hacking me to pieces, they'll be sorry.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Merci guys, Dynamic Spirit you could also get an award for your very creative and funny post

Why thank you kind Ma'am. I try to keep things interesting in the games and write-ups.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I was surprised anyone was able to win, until I read Fippy's writeup. Making matters worse Fippy won in the same amount of time I lost. I seemed to have been doing OK, hoping for a miracle and finally gaining some ground when Churchill, who I was good friends with, decided to eliminate me.

Inspired by Fippy, but lacking finer details about how she won (lacking the skill too (who said that?)), I replayed this about 20 times, winning only once by UN vote. The strategy that worked out best was moving the starting settler about 5 turns until I settled about 5 tiles away from Quin keeping him away from copper and eventually eliminating him first and getting about one third of the map, though this method wasn't always a success.

I think this was probably the hardest Deity XOTM I ever played, despite the generous gift of the deer in the BFC. If your ever unsure of what kind of gifts to give players I could probably help out!

Well done for trying! Yes this was a hard GOTM, because usually at deity level, we'll try to give something to the player to make the game a bit easier. And this time I didn't, I tried to keep the map at the standard deity difficulty. I did give you the deer, but that was because when I checked the resources, I found a fair few resources were completely missing from the map, so I decided to add them. In that process, you got the deer, but various AIs got stuff as well. I can't recall the exact details, but I'm fairly sure I recall giving gems (or some other shiny metal) to one AI, for example.

To my mind, being able to win on any standard deity game is quite an achievement, even if it's only done on replays. And yes, Fippy's write-up was very good and detailed. Do check it out, anyone who wants to improve their high-difficulty skills

One thing that has always puzzled me about the scoring is why a higher score can be had by retiring when one sees things about to go to hell, than playing longer and getting wiped off the map. Of course I haven't seen any comparison of that, which means somewhere here there is probably a post discussing just that.

Your base score is made by adding together scores representing your achievements in population, science, wonders, and one or two other things. But population is the biggest contributor. If you suffer a conquest defeat, your population by definition falls to zero, which means you lose that part of your score.

 

[Fippy]

@greatbeyond Yup you are showing great fighting spirit

Normal deity games (no editing help & average starts) require lots of training before getting more comfortable with them.
@Lain who mostly posts in the strategy forum has a youtube channel with videos where he often plays poor starts, highly recommended for those who want to learn more about Deity.

I would advice against using map knowledge for stuff like moving your settler 5 turns, it's better to practise how you would play with only 1 try.
Some key elements: Great peoples & bulbing are very important, sometimes to get back into tech trading and also for reaching breakout units.
Classic example: Cuirs via Civil Service, bulb Philo, double bulb Education (unlocks gunpowder, and ofc Liberalism).
In my game i used great scientists for Edu, Lib (can be bulbed if you have compass), Printing Press, and Academy in Moscow.

If AIs leave you alone, it's possible getting a tech advantage via those bulbs and cottaged Capital (multiplied by Bur. so Civil Service always has high priority, and Academy).
Units like Cuirs, Cavs, Rifles or Cannons can stand up against bigger deity stacks
Showing patience until getting there can be very important, avoid caring about AI scores or city counts compared to what you have.
Do not let them drag you into pointless wars, trade embargos (it's only -1 diplo if refusing, not a war check..so not worth risking your trading partners for), settling very close to their borders for 1 more poor or below average city.

If you get attacked by an AI, that can be either bad luck or not good enuf diplo / avoiding tactics.
Once you can trade via Alpha & Currency, it's usually possible gifting them something for pleased.
If you are scared of one particular AI (Qin here) that can be wise, sometimes they will demand one of your techs and you should always give in if them going into war mode would be fatal.

If you get attacked, having some techs for peace can often get you out of war again once they talk.
So being ahead in the trading game not only helps in peace times, and again shows the importance of GP, early libraries and so on
Some defensive units can be whipped if you notice red fists, but you cannot rush research.
Much of having success at deity comes from playing without fear, well knowing you are seemingly vulnerable but have other ways to get out of tricky situations.

 

[greatbeyond]

@greatbeyond Yup you are showing great fighting spirit
.... Much of having success at deity comes from playing without fear...

Usually I just play without thinking!

Thanks for the tips Fippy.

 

[Xcalibrator]

One thing I noticed in comparing Fippy's game to mine (well, my first of six) using the replay tool was that she got BW early and settled her 2nd city on turn 26 (or maybe it was 28?), WAY ahead of mine, and continued settling at what seemd to me a remarkable pace. Optimal use of bulbs and trading goes a long way, but a fast start, particularly with lots of riverside cottages, helps a LOT. I feel the need to make a 7th attempt.

Fippy, what was your strategy regarding whipping and chopping and workers vs settlers? Thx.

 

[Fippy]

Cathy has the perfect traits for some quick settling, whips give 45h and chop 30h for settlers

We had our food tech with hunting, and also mining.
Barbs can become a big problem on deity (rushing in around turn ~38), want to know where copper (hopefully) is fast.

You are right, most of my tips are for after that phase
Here's an important one: Teching Agri for dry Rice, before BW and wheel?
Nope, not on deity. Cannot afford losing those turns early, for just 1 more food on not impressive tiles.
Think of the early game as one big danger zone around you, urging for counters..powerful ones like Axes, chops & whips.

 

[Deckhand]

Think of the early game as one big danger zone around you, urging for counters..powerful ones like Axes, chops & whips.

Generally speaking, do you prioritize bronze working ahead of AH? Slavery and chopping are really important! I like chariots better than axes early in bts for barb defense.

 

[Fippy]

It's good if you can skip AH at the start of deity games
Remember your barb timer, from t35+ on it's getting tricky.
If you find no horsies, archery might be needed already. With BW you can support your production, but not with AH.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@greatbeyond Yup you are showing great fighting spirit

Normal deity games (no editing help & average starts) require lots of training before getting more comfortable with them.
@Lain who mostly posts in the strategy forum has a youtube channel with videos where he often plays poor starts, highly recommended for those who want to learn more about Deity.

I would advice against using map knowledge for stuff like moving your settler 5 turns, it's better to practise how you would play with only 1 try.
Some key elements: Great peoples & bulbing are very important, sometimes to get back into tech trading and also for reaching breakout units.
Classic example: Cuirs via Civil Service, bulb Philo, double bulb Education (unlocks gunpowder, and ofc Liberalism).
In my game i used great scientists for Edu, Lib (can be bulbed if you have compass), Printing Press, and Academy in Moscow.

If AIs leave you alone, it's possible getting a tech advantage via those bulbs and cottaged Capital (multiplied by Bur. so Civil Service always has high priority, and Academy).
Units like Cuirs, Cavs, Rifles or Cannons can stand up against bigger deity stacks
Showing patience until getting there can be very important, avoid caring about AI scores or city counts compared to what you have.
Do not let them drag you into pointless wars, trade embargos (it's only -1 diplo if refusing, not a war check..so not worth risking your trading partners for), settling very close to their borders for 1 more poor or below average city.

If you get attacked by an AI, that can be either bad luck or not good enuf diplo / avoiding tactics.
Once you can trade via Alpha & Currency, it's usually possible gifting them something for pleased.
If you are scared of one particular AI (Qin here) that can be wise, sometimes they will demand one of your techs and you should always give in if them going into war mode would be fatal.

If you get attacked, having some techs for peace can often get you out of war again once they talk.
So being ahead in the trading game not only helps in peace times, and again shows the importance of GP, early libraries and so on
Some defensive units can be whipped if you notice red fists, but you cannot rush research.
Much of having success at deity comes from playing without fear, well knowing you are seemingly vulnerable but have other ways to get out of tricky situations.

I made two mistakes, based on your principles:

1. Settled too close to Qin and got both negmods and Close borders.
2. Used map knowledge to walk up north, then settled back down, instead of just settling south and settling north. (This led to #1.)

 

[Fippy]

Fippy, what was your strategy regarding whipping and chopping and workers vs settlers? Thx.

Forgot answering that in more detail, sorry.

Cannot remember exactly, but think i whipped at size 2 already for the first settler.
When teching BW first, you can improve food and then chop instead of improving another tile (Moscow had not much else of value early).
Playing out IMP Chop + whip are 75h, quickly done and repeated with only deer and an unimproved forest.

I had 3 workers for 5 cities, main idea behind that (often shockingly low amount for others) was improving only really valuable tiles (copper, floodplain cottages) and grabbing all river cities early so prio for settlers.

 

[Xcalibrator]

Thanks for the extra info, Fipppy. Now THAT's betting the farm (so to speak) on a focused strategy!

How much effort did (and do you in general) put into roads? Lowest priority? The river (for trade connections between cities, even without Sailing) was extremely helpful here.

 

[Fippy]

Road (or rather trade route, can sometimes be shortened with rivers) between Capital and 2nd city has high prio for me
Other roads not so much, 1c per city early game "only".
They get more important when foreign trade routes are possible, yup the river helped here and my first roads besides for copper & 2nd city were built for connecting Churchill.