News: BOTM05 Pre-game Discussion

[DynamicSpirit]

At for spotting the typos everyone. Think I've corrected everything now.

Challenger save, yeah I thought I'd try something a bit different for challenger. Bear mind that, unlike most challenger equalizers, in this game you keep all your units, so you can more easily go exploring before you settle.

 

[blastoidstalker]

You also keep your tech, right?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Correct. The removal of the three visible resources is the only change that I've made for the challenger save.

 

[Vynd]

I haven't played around with rainforest maps yet. If they really default to almost all jungle then it could be worthwhile to move the Settler a tile or two west so the area to the east could support another city or two without Iron Working for jungle clearing.

That could be wishful thinking, though. With 10 AIs I suspect this'll be a crowded map, even if it is all land tiles. On the other hand with neighbors close by I'd bet an early push with Vultures will pay off handsomly.

 

[MarkM]

I don't have any familiarity with the rainforest map or the implications of not allowing cities to be razed at all, but outside of that it seems pretty straightforward game based upon what we can see. It seems like this would have been perfect for <ahem> having our first emperor level BTS game, instead of the 2nd monarch level game But I appreciate the standard mapsize & normal length!

BTW, what was the point of the no raze option? Aside: if you gauntlet types want to give yourself a real challenge, make your VC conquest! LOL

At for spotting the typos everyone. Think I've corrected everything now.

Ta maybe?

Just got jealous everyone got a crack at it before me

 

[Priah]

No raze might be kind of a pain if we encounter one of those imperalistic civs that builds ten cities right on our doorstep.

As for rainforest itself, Ive played around with it a little bit, and after regeration 15+ times, not one of the "natural" starts had space to expand without ironworking.

The lack of trees combined with a lack of an expansion site means I'll probably grow my city to 6 after building two workers and run two scientists there. Ive found that with that exact staring site, the ai cant keep up in tech and will not have ironworking by the time you get alphabet, so going iw after writing would probably be appropriate.

Otherwise, Id say we have a reasonable chance of getting horses or copper in our starting area (im looking at that suspicious plains 2s).

 

[MarkM]

No raze might be kind of a pain if we encounter one of those imperalistic civs that builds ten cities right on our doorstep.

Right, that's what I was getting at -- the only point I could see was to make it a "pain" to play, especially for dom or conquest (if the latter would even be possible).

Thanks for the feedback on rainforest. Often I don't bother with a test game, but may be in order this time so I have a clearer idea how to prioritize build/research for these settings. Unfortunately we won't be able to accurately model the AI civ behaviour of course, without knowing who they are. Wonder if expansionist civs will still expand rapidly into jungle before they can clear it. Guess there's only one way to find out If they do, it may only compound dom/conquest hassles ...

 

[Lexad]

In BOTM on Monarch AI will prioritize IW rather fast in that case.

 

[Sailsa]

After not playing Civ for over a year, I finally picked up the BTS expansion two weeks ago and am already addicted to the game once again. While searching this site for information about some of the BTS additions, I read up on the BOTM and decided I will give it a shot. I actually won my first game on Prince over the weekend while playing as Gilgamesh so might as well give Monarch a try. I am tempted to try the Adventurer class for my first Monarch game to ease the transition but will probably stick with the normal save (that way I won't be as embarrassed when I get slaughtered).

Plan for the game: Based on my last game with Gilgamesh, vultures are good, but the Ziggurat is great for running a heavy espionage game which I am going to try again. After establishing my first ~4 cities, I plan on building Ziggurats and getting a spy specialist in each. If I find some stone nearby, I might try and get the Great Wall too (no idea how early AI's build this on Monarch).

Techs: Animal Husbandry for Pigs, Mining for Silver and BW to reveal copper, and then work to priesthood for Ziggurats with possible detour to Masonry if I find stone.

 

[JacktheBodiless]

Maybe "no raze" is just to encourage heavy use of our UB... Ah well, at least it will help break me out of my perfectionist mindset a bit when it comes to city placement. I usually raze an AI city unless it is in exactly the spot I like.
Man, with post-conquest culture flipping on, it could be a real pain making any kind of military progress... hmm, beyond the sword indeed.

I like the espionage idea... sneaky jungle spies infiltrating everywhere; I just hope they have blowguns.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Anyone know if a city can flip back to an extinct AI?

 

[jadex]

What exactly does "city flipping after conquest" imply? Chance of city flipping to original owner after capture? Is the possibility of flipping on the turn it gets out of revolt? Or...?

 

[Lexad]

What exactly does "city flipping after conquest" imply? Chance of city flipping to original owner after capture?

Yes. It takes 2 [non-conquest] revolts for a flip. It can have the next revolt the very turn the first happened. Culture and military presence lower the revolt probability.

 

[haphazard1]

This start does look tasty -- plenty of food, hammers from the hills, rare silver for happiness, and lots of riverside grasslands for cottaging. No forests for quick hammers, but you can't have everything.

I like the Sumerian UU, and the UB is fantastic. No city razing will be trouble -- AI city placement is too often just a little off ideal. Combined with flips after conquest...hmmm. Military strategy is going to require adjustment. Our creative trait will help a bit, though, with immediate culture and cheap libraries and theaters.

I'll check the eastern hill with the warrior, but unless there is something amazing to be seen settling in place seems right. Worker first build, research AH for the pigs and to reveal horses (if we are really lucky), mining for silver and the path to bronze working.

If neither horses nor copper is available -- a strong possibility -- then a quick push to Iron Working is probably needed. We'll need to chop jungle early anyway. But if aggressive nearby neighbors have appeared, might have to fall back and grab Archery for protective defense.

I'll have to generate a few rainforest maps to get familiar with what we'll be facing.

 

[JerichoHill]

With Early Courthouses and a strong City Raider, and hampered AI settlement, this would seem to be an easy COW and tailor made for domination.

However, I havent gone for space in awhile, so I think that is what I will do..After killing a few neighbors

Settling in place.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Anyone know if a city can flip back to an extinct AI?

That seems unlikely. When an AI disappears, all the culture that AI had in his former cities disappears too, along with the % population that consider themselves part of that AI. So there wouldn't be any culture to cause a flip back.

 

[mboza]

Does "no city razing" still only apply to conquest, ie you get the option to raze cities that you culture flip, or has this changed since Warlords?

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

In BOTM on Monarch AI will prioritize IW rather fast in that case.

I believe you, I certainly do... But how do you know that?! Is it in the game mechanics somewhere?

MF

 

[ArcadicGamer]

After the recent HOF gauntlet, i got a pretty good understanding of the rainforest maps.

1. No world wrap is standard. I assume this is true given there is no indication by DS otherwise.
2. With 10 AI's, the placement of the settlers is going to be interesting. With the standard #, all civs start on the edge of the map, meaning there is a chance that moving one way or another will show the edge of the map. However, you can practicly guaruntee that their will be civs on each corner and at each pole and one near the center. (unless they have been WB moved.) The other 2 ai will be somewhere near the center also.
3. There is about 20-25 tiles around each starting location that are jungle free. Pigs, silver, FP and rice are the predominant resources. The whole map otherwise is practicly all jungles and hills and peaks. I have seen rather large bodies of water on this map, but never any seafood.

Prioritizing IW is going to be my goal most likely. Or i may go for an AP victory.

 

[chopster]

Depending on what the warrior sees on the eastern hill, I may consider moving the settler to leave a litte room for a second city to the east.

Looing closely at the screenshot - the squareness of the grass hill N, NE of the settler looks to be the (top) edge of the map.