News: Game of the month for Civ V - feedback appreciated

[Knowtalent]

Just a couple more bits from someone who very much appreciated the IV GotM back in the day, but has not (sorry) found much appeal (yet) for participating in V GotM. Obviously, the format works for the regulars, and I have no idea how much appetite there is for trying new things.

With those caveats out of way, I would suggest rotating only through Emperor/Immortal/Deity and dropping the easier difficulty levels out of rotation completely. I think it would be more interesting to have more people describing how they managed, maybe just barely, to get through the game. As it is now, the dialog seems to be only about fewest turns to victory. Which makes sense when half the games are at a difficulty level where the only way to make them challenging (for most players on the forum) is to get through them as fast as possible.

For someone who is challenged at King and new to the forums, finding the GotM at King might seem ideal -- but I suspect that they would not come away with much that they can learn from. And they are certainly not going to feel welcome with the competition being so focused on quick wins. That person hits the same wall if s/he looks at Prince or Emperor. So the GotM is never really very inviting to a new participant, no matter what their skill level, until and unless that new participant is a very good player.

In contrast, if the GotM games were always at Emperor or better, I think you could regularly (at least with a third of your games) attract new additional Prince and King players that would at least be able to dialog with each other about their experiences. Having every third game a Deity run would have curmudgeons like me participating regularly (even with the Emperor and Immortal games).

Can you guys track your statistics of new participates over time? I suspect they drift in and out at pretty constant pace. But, of course, it is more likely that I am just projecting my own prejudices!

The data is available to be searched, but requires each months submissions to be gone thru individually. Not an easy task. What I can look at easily is the total numbers of submissions. The pattern over the past 2 years is pretty consistent the easy games are about 50% as popular as the hard games. The deity has one outlier game with 36 submissions, no other is above 15

break down by level
prince 13 games average submissions 40.4
king 10 games average submissions 33.3
emp 8 games average submissions 35.6
imm 12 games average submissions 22.8
Deity 8 games average submissions 15.6

lower 23 games average submissions 37.3
Higher 28 games average submissions 24.4
Games by VC
Diplomacy 11 games average submissions 32.9
Domination 10 games average submissions 27.6
science 12 games average submissions 38.1
Culture 13 games average submissions 30.1
other VC 5 games average submissions 39.6

Originally we had warlord as well in the mix but we haven't had one on that level in almost 2 years. We have decided to add an extra Emperor game to the lower level rotation. Mostly because I want to design some maps at that level The game is over 5 years old and the quickest strategies are known to the most of the players. That was part of why I introduced the policy restriction idea to get players to think out of their normal comfort zones

 

[sebtanic]

How about the downloads per difficulty level?

I would suppose that people are less likely to submit a lost game than a victory. And obviously more people are likely to win at the lower difficulties.

 

[beetle]

I am not sure submissions should be the metric used to define success. If my musings have any basis in reality, there might be patterns where new users regularly show up in the threads, but then just as regularly disappear. But that is probably a pretty common pattern generally! The other confounding factor is that people who are new to GotM to have a pretty narrow range of difficulty levels they are comfortable with, but there are several weeks between when those games are offered.

 

[leif erikson]

Just a couple more bits from someone who very much appreciated the IV GotM back in the day, but has not (sorry) found much appeal (yet) for participating in V GotM. Obviously, the format works for the regulars, and I have no idea how much appetite there is for trying new things.

Thanks for your appreciations.

Think we have tried many new things suggested by our players.

With those caveats out of way, I would suggest rotating only through Emperor/Immortal/Deity and dropping the easier difficulty levels out of rotation completely. I think it would be more interesting to have more people describing how they managed, maybe just barely, to get through the game. As it is now, the dialog seems to be only about fewest turns to victory. Which makes sense when half the games are at a difficulty level where the only way to make them challenging (for most players on the forum) is to get through them as fast as possible.

The reason the dialog is generally about the fewest turns to victory is because that is how the challenge is judged. Whoever gains the designated VC in the least number of turns is the winner. This decision was taken because we wanted to reward the best, most efficiently, played games. Milking for high score just didn't seem to fit that definition, although it can be an art unto itself.

For someone who is challenged at King and new to the forums, finding the GotM at King might seem ideal -- but I suspect that they would not come away with much that they can learn from. And they are certainly not going to feel welcome with the competition being so focused on quick wins. That person hits the same wall if s/he looks at Prince or Emperor. So the GotM is never really very inviting to a new participant, no matter what their skill level, until and unless that new participant is a very good player.

The lower difficulty games were meant to be an invitation to new players to try the GoTM at the level they are used to playing, trying to meet them where they are, in the hope that as they learn, they will try the harder difficulty levels. Think we have seen that lower level difficulty games have challenges all their own.

GoTM has always been about learning the game and improving one's game.

I do disagree with your analysis that the GoTM is not welcoming. If a player shows up here and all they see are difficult games, they may be intimidated and decide to pass up the challenge. The lower level difficulty games provide a path to learning to take on the higher level difficulty games. Hopefully, the environment is friendly enough for players to ask questions and learn from the play styles of other players.

In contrast, if the GotM games were always at Emperor or better, I think you could regularly (at least with a third of your games) attract new additional Prince and King players that would at least be able to dialog with each other about their experiences. Having every third game a Deity run would have curmudgeons like me participating regularly (even with the Emperor and Immortal games).

Yes, as long as players do not feel too intimidated to start playing.

The reason we run two games each month is to be inclusive of all players at whatever difficulty level they may be most comfortable with. We just want to get them playing and enjoying the game.

Can you guys track your statistics of new participates over time? I suspect they drift in and out at pretty constant pace. But, of course, it is more likely that I am just projecting my own prejudices!

Civ5 GoTM is not as automated as Civ4 GoTM.

edit and correction - We can pull as much data from the server as we can with Civ4.

 

[InaneObserver]

Maybe not the most constructive feedback in the world but I think the organisers are doing a hell of a job. Kudos

 

[Kendon]

... I have no idea how much appetite there is for trying new things.

With those caveats out of way, I would suggest rotating only through Emperor/Immortal/Deity and dropping the easier difficulty levels out of rotation completely. ...

Easier games mid-month are an entry point for new players. Renaissance or medieval starts, restricting culture trees and no ruins are new and change the game. For a few years now I've watched names come and go. For a while glory7 seems to be at the head of the pack. Lately it's been Acken and Ribannah.

With Games of the Month I like comparing results on the shared maps. I enjoy seeing new names. Sometimes they make mistakes I've outgrown. Sometimes they do something new and creative I can learn from. It happens on Immortal. It happens on Prince.

It's remarkable to keep veterans and, at the same time, attract beginners. Congratulations to the organizers. Please keep up the good work.

[/I]

 

[strake]

Speaking for myself, I very much appreciated the lower tier games. When I first started, I considered any game where I didn't get the Great Library an automatic loss. Clearly I had a lot to learn. If the GotM series was only the highest tiers, I never would have even tried my first one. The fact that I could actually play to completion every other game was a big piece of what drew me in and got me started.

Being able to compare the same starts with the same victory condition is what improved my game. Being able to see how much of an effect different decisions made. Watching what felt like a fun, pretty good game for me, get beat by 150 turns got me thinking more carefully about my choices. For the longest time, I would replay the first 100 turns trying to imitate the things the best players were doing. Eventually I even started to understand why they made those choices.

Since I'm now able to actually win the occasional Deity map, i clearly do most of my learning in the higher tier games. But just because I don't learn as much from the lower tier games anymore, I still remember that not too long ago, they were the only games I felt I could learn anything. The players pulling off fast Deity wins might as well have been using magic compared to me. When I was having trouble settling a third city in the first hundred turns without dying to an incoming army. All I could learn in those games, was that I had a lot to learn.

So I guess what I'm saying is, I really appreciate that there is a high-tier game and a low-tier game every month. The low-tier games are what drew me in, and got me to the point where I could play the high-tier games.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Where are the rules on what is considered an "exploit" ?

I didnt at first realise it might be considered an exploit so i hope not:
Can i capture a city, gift/sell it to another civ whom i intend to conquer later, then capture it again ?

Obviously the reason i did this was to avoid having to take the unhappiness of it while keeping the choise between having it in my control or passing it on to a civ i will remain at peace with. (who might liberate it)

Moderator Action: Moved to the feedback thread as this is the best place to ask these types of general questions.

 

[leif erikson]

I would not consider that an exploit.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

Hey want happened to the TSG128 results? Now that the TSG129 is closed, they should be ready for viewing. I didn't get to finish either one of those, but I am still interested to see who won the golds.

 

[leif erikson]

Sorry for the delay, it will be posted soon.

 

[quixadhal]

Hey guys, just re-discovered this site again. I used to follow along with all the Civ4 game of the months, and was wondering... is there anywhere I can download an archive of all the civ5 game saves for the GotM starts?

I see there is a sticky for the "compilation" thread, but that seems to be just the data for the game starts, without links to the actual files or the postings in which they were originally made. Beyond the first 18, that is.

I'm a noob again, so please feel free to hit me with the clue stick if I'm missing the obvious.

 

[leif erikson]

The link to the saves is located at the end of each game's Announcement thread.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Knowtalent]

I think what he is asking for is a thread containing all of the various saves. It looks as if i will have some free time this weekend. I can see what i can do.

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[Hammer Rabbi]

if you do try to list the links in one post/thread, maybe say which TSGs start new expansion releases for G&K or BNW if they dont have a complete Civ5 version.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

if you do try to list the links in one post/thread, maybe say which TSGs start new expansion releases for G&K or BNW if they dont have a complete Civ5 version.

And please don't forget about the DLC's... I missed several GOTM's thanks to those...

 

[Knowtalent]

Its unfortunately much easier to post a link to the saves and the start pic than it would be to go and search for all the individual start announcements

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[quixadhal]

A page with all the download links would be awesome. If you can search the forums, you might be able to then search for the filename (as it would be in the link), to go look up the original thread... maybe.

Thanks a bunch! Just getting all the files in one place is a great start. Hunting down the various DLC and whatnot can always be a homework assignment.

 

[Knowtalent]

Im in the process now. Will be up by the end of the weekend PDT

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[Arduano]

Hello guys,

After more than 5 years of no CIV5 TSG's - I played the first two and that's it - I am feeling like getting my hands on it again.

I just have one question: is there a global ranking of all CIV5 TSG's somewhere, like there is one for CIV3 and CIV4?

Thanks.