News: WOTM 15 Pre-game Discussion

[Doc TK]

Okay, so I deleted Civ, War, and BtS and then reinstalled Civ and Warlords. It still didn't work. However, I noticed that it had left some folders around. So, I did it again, but this time I deleted everything I could find anywhere on the PC including in the registry (which were also left around).

I then installed Civ, Patched it. Then Warlords, Patched, Copied DLLs, Installed mod. It worked.

I've not tried with BtS, but chances are that would be fine.

Still not sure what was causing the problem.

Off to play.

 

[Munro]

Anyone else going for a military victory this month? Any thoughts on strategy for the fastest win with these settings?

- no city razing
- no early iron
- lots of empty land to cover

I wonder whether the increased maintenance costs will make a no-frills early axe rush prohibitively costly? (Does the lower difficulty level help us much here)?

Also, I expect courthouses and cats will be required by the end, so reasonable tech'ing will be reqd, and at Prince level, earliest finishers probably can't rely on capturing / trading these from the AI.

So - maybe some extra early infrastructure will result in a faster eventual win on these settings? E.g. in addition to the usual 2-3 hammer producing cities, some or all of the following:

- 1-2 (riveside / floodplain) cottage-spam cities for /
- religion + shrine for & & +2 XP from theocracy
- oracle? for theology / feudalism / code of laws? and +2 GP points towards shrine
- tech to maths / contruction / code of laws before DOW'ing?
- find and settle on some desert Iron, for swords.

I think I'll try a couple of test games and experiment. Anyone else going for a (fastest) military victory? How far to you plan to develop before attacking?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Good question. There are at least 3 scenarios: copper in FC, copper nearby, copper nowhere close. Now if copper is close, is it possible to conquer the map in the BCs?

I'll be trying a few tests before playing too, I think.

 

[Munro]

Good question. There are at least 3 scenarios: copper in FC, copper nearby, copper nowhere close. Now if copper is close, is it possible to conquer the map in the BCs?

I'll be trying a few tests before playing too, I think.

I generated a few maps in WB, and about 9/10 of the time there were 4 x Copper in the southern belt, so I think the chance of Copper nearby is decent. (There was also much iron in the centre if not, although an extra 429 will be required).

Finance may be more of a concern. I tried GreatBeyond's test map and despite lots of generous goody huts (about 150-200 in total at the beginning) my no-frills axe rush* ran out of cash around turn 134 (490 BC) with only 2 rivals eliminated, 2 hobbled and 2 untouched. City maintenance already accounted for more than half my expenses.

View attachment 164299 View attachment 164300
View attachment 164301

* (2 initial cities; built warrior, worker, settler, worker, 2 x barracks, 25x axe...)

So looks like CoL for courthouses (and merchant specialists) will probably be necessary, plus some kind of early financial infrastructure. Possibly:

- cottage city on the river to the SE (around +15 gpt by turn 100)?
- Oracle - for CoL? Philosophical trait also means this gives a GP after 38 turns, which could settle for +5 gpt, or build a shrine if there has been much religion spread. Does anyone know how much empirical difference the Shrine makes to the spread of a state religion? Missionaries are expensive... (60 )
- Fishing might also be useful for working that freshwater lake and other water tiles in captured cities to the north... (would have given me at least another +10 gpt in my test game).

I also got good mileage from early DOWs on southern neighbours, for worker steal and leaving woodsman warriors fortified in forest next to their unimproved copper. This crippled the AI for a long time after, while I dealt with the northerners...

LtC - anything interesting from any of your test games? Anyone else still experimenting?

 

[LowtherCastle]

My limited experience with the GP is that a shrine won't give you much, plus it doesn's coordinate much with your idea of fast conquest. On the other hand, your idea of CoL and popping a GM would be a good plan for a late economic boost. You'd want to be/stay good friends with one faraway AI long enough to cash in on the GM.

My other thought is that instead of 2 x worker and 25 x axemen, you might want at least 4 workers plus an axe escort fairly early on to make those desert roads. A mistake I usually make is not enough logistics early on. Warmongers aren't builders, except when it comes to roads. I think the very best warmongers are fanatical road builders...

 

[Thrallia]

I will try a test game and see how well it goes running for a Feudalism Slingshot. If I can pull that off consistently, I may attempt a military victory. Otherwise, I will probably end up going for fastest diplo yet again.

 

[Htadus]

I will try a test game and see how well it goes running for a Feudalism Slingshot. If I can pull that off consistently, I may attempt a military victory. Otherwise, I will probably end up going for fastest diplo yet again.

I already did (several maps) and it failed since some one would build the Oracle before turn 100 (I do not remember if i beelined to it ). However, I did manage the Oracle, MC gambit to get a GE before anyone to build the Pyramids in one try. But would it not be better to use the GE to get Machinary since I am going for a Science game?

 

[Thrallia]

nope, Pyramids is a better bet, as you'll then be able to run representation(great for Gandhi, as a philosophical leader!)

 

[The Carp]

It would be very helpful if a few people with different software configurations could try loading this file. Its map and scenario are NOT related to the WOTM 15 start file, but it is locked to the same set of Windows assets. So if you set up your Civ4 configuration in accordance with the above requirements, and then load this file up successfully, you should be good to go with the real thing.

Please let me know how it goes.

just to let you all know how it tested on my system

setup
Civ4 (DVD install) + 1.74 patch
Warlords (CD install) + 2.13 patch
Blue Marble v3.0 (only terrains and leaderheads)
HOF-2.13.001 (all modules activated)

test results
- First tried to load the test file without the BtS dlls:

failed with the modified asset error (expected result)​

- Renamed both original dlls (ex: CvGameCoreDLL.dll.original) and copied the BtS ones:

game loaded successfully​

The only potential problem I noticed is once the game was loaded I went to the settings screen and there it said the game wasn't valid for HOF use and the only red flag was for the Lock Modified Asset not being checked. Is that normal ?
(I tried removing the original dlls instead of just renaming them but got the same result)

 

[AlanH]

Thanks.

Re. your renaming trick, the Locked Assets check only looks at certain file types. It's possible that you got lucky because you put the name change on the end of the file name, making the original file not look like a .dll. If it had .dll on the end of its modified name it *might* be included in he assets check.

The HoF warning is an inaccurate error message, as the assets *are* locked in this test save. I suspect it comes up because the new DLLs don't match the CRC recorded for them in the old HoF Mod. The HoF warning is normally suppressed for GOTM games, but I didn't take all the steps necessary to make this test file look like a GOTM game.

 

[The Carp]

Thanks for the info AlanH.

At first I thought the check would be on everthing inside the asset folder and was expecting a faillure when loading the game.
Since it worked, I figured it was only checking either for file types and/or specific file name.

I prefer just to rename the file by adding a .bak or .original extension as I find it easier to not loose the original and to switch from one to another.

Anyway, just thought I should share this info with the community.

Now back to the real deal... Looks like this WOTM's gona be lots of fun !
I can't decide if I should settle in place or move to the rice... will have to move the warrior 1SE to have a better picture. If nothing juicy shows up, I'll probably move to the rice.

 

[=FC=Gorgon]

Just picking this up now. Hopefully I'll finish it in time. Just curious if anyone thought about going for a cultural victory? I haven't tried Ghandi in WL yet but I assume he is still pretty good for that.

thanks,
G

 

[AlanH]

It's not a good idea to ask a question like this so late in the game. Most of the players with any useful opinion will either be playing or have completed the game, so they should not respond.

 

[=FC=Gorgon]

Good point AlanH.

G