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Next expansion pack?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by bonafide11, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. TomKQT

    TomKQT Chieftain

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    The AI definitely needs some improvements, but that hardly will be a core feature of a future DLC. I think Firaxis is trying really hard to make it as good as possible with every patch. Still not good enough, though...

    But making some changes to the combat system itself? That could be interesting, but at this moment I cannot imagine how it would work. Larger armies being your main point: What can we do to go beyond corps and armies? Additional levels (4 units, 5 units...)? That could be starting to be very powerfull and I think we would notice that it would require the units to loose some of the "stars" with damage. Because otherwise it would be not really fair - you combine 10 units to create a powerfull huge army and no matter what you do, no matter how big damage you receive, you can still easily heal the unit to full 10-unit strength? But if you start loosing the "size points" of the unit with damage, aren't we simply back to stacks of doom? Aren't we going away from the 1UPT?

    I think the current system is great and needs just better AI.
     
  2. Leyrann

    Leyrann Warlord

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    Strawman detected.
     
  3. acluewithout

    acluewithout Chieftain

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    There are some ideas linked in my signature.

    Overall, I'd like to see the following:

    - A deeper look at technology. I don't mean more units, and I don't mean giant death robots. Instead, I'd like technology to feel like it has more impact on the game, and I'd like the game to explore more the impact of technology on societies and the environment. In terms of specific systems, I'd like to see power plants, and have these create more competition for resources; I'd also like to see environmental consequences to using fossil fuels etc. I'd also like to see a few more projects along the lines of atomic / nuclear weapons and space projects.

    - More integrated systems. Some systems feel like a bit of mish-mash, and some systems feel very isolated, particularly governments / government plaza / government buildings / legacy cards, and around envoys / diplomacy. I'd like the various systems to be more integrated, and feel less like lots of different unrelated sub-systems and or grab-bag of powers. For example, I wish you could assign envoys to civilizations, not just city states, and I wish you could move envoys around a bit like how you can swap out policies (e.g. maybe you can re-assign envoys whenever you change governments or pay a big chunk of gold).

    - Make it more challenging to maintain an empire. Civilization is basically a board game rather than a sim, and I'd really like to keep that feeling. But subject to that, I'd like it to be a bit harder to keep you empire together over time. Loyalty is a big step in the right direction, and I'm sure that systems will get fleshed out more over time. But some other small things would be, e.g., city maintenance costs increasing for higher tier governments or if a governor is assigned to a city, or populations requiring more amenities as your technology advances.

    Things I don't want to see:

    - Bloat. I don't want every gap being filled in - I like there are upgrade gaps for units and not every district gets a city state. I also don't want lots of new economic baskets or more discreet systems (unless they really add something to the game, and ideally they should parallel some existing system). A good example of the opposite of rule bloat is how Religious Pressure and Loyalty are displayed the same way - I really like that.

    - Random events. I don't want truly random events. I think that would take away from the strategic choices you make in the game. The random element should just come from the map or the AI. I'd be happy with some sort of climate change mechanic, so long as it was somewhat predictable (like, how you can sort of predict when an era change will happen), and depended on player actions (e.g. like climate bounces between cold and hot, but accelerates if there are too many mines).

    - World Congress. I think a world congress like there was in Civ 5 is just too cheesy. I'd be happy with multi-lateral alliances, and perhaps agreements between allies to do something (e.g. ban ivory trading). But overall I think a world congress just isnt very organic.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  4. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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  5. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    Mecha with cheesy names and elite troops with extraterrestrial technology obviously taken from another Firaxis game (and their name say so) ruined Civ V for me.

    Spoiler Something else that ruined Civ V for me :
    The overly realistic nature of the statue in the defeat screen too!


    It's creepier than you think.

    At least the Civ VI defeat video just shows a ruined modern city.
     
  6. Proclo

    Proclo Chieftain

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    YES YES YES! Spy satellites which will give you vision over your enemies, comunication satellites with a bonus on...culture? Production? A telescope on orbit...
     
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  7. Xmonger

    Xmonger Chieftain

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    I did an analysis of V + Expansions and VI + R&F and the only answer I see is Diplomatic Victory, Diplomacy and Espionage, plus a host of smaller improvements and fixes.

    Consider that Ed Beech in an E3 talk described a defect of V was that Diplomatic Victory was really a "Gold Victory" which could be had by amassing a treasury and simply buying off the City States (I know players who did this). So they took it out but instead of replacing gave us Religion victory. Why not just replace with a better system? Because they're planning bigger things for it.

    Call the expansion "Friends and Foes" with a new mechanic "Influence" which is similar to the real world concept of 'political capital'. The end goal is to become a "World Power" (e.g. U.S.A, EU, Russia, ...). Influence is gained
    • From City State Envoys (you gain influence over the CS)
    • From your military forces (Domination Victory)
    • From your Tourism (Culture Victory)
    • From your religious influence (Religion Victory)
    • From your science prowess (Sci victory)
    • From Espionage (propaganda, scandals, etc)
    Thus you can see that this is the 'meta victory' requiring aspects of all victories to win. You need to be good at all of them to some degree to win Diplomatic.

    They've already laid the ground work with Alliances and existing systems, R&F is a complete game except for Diplomatic victory which in this view builds on the rest of them.
     
  8. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Warlord

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    I think the biggest thing that the next expansion needs to do, is make the late game more meaningful and last longer. Too many games end before you get to enjoy the late techs or units. I almost never get to use modern armor or stealth bombers. And I am a pretty casual player, I don't play optimally, but even I can finish the tech and civics trees in about 300 turns on standard. I would love to dwell in the late game a bit more so as to actually have a late game war with modern armor and stealth bombers and have some interesting diplomatic stuff too.

    I would suggest 3 things:
    - Add more techs and civics.
    - Make the late game techs and civics cost more.
    - Add more late game mechanics like corporations, a world congress, late game diplomatic options, more emergencies etc so that the late game actually has interesting stuff going on.
     
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  9. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

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    -More Labour Policies: At the moment, the manner in which an Empire organises its workforce is horribly under-represented. Aside from Serfdom, I'd like to see a return of Slavery.....as well as Caste System, Indentured Labour & Organised Labour. Slavery could allow builders to speed up construction of Wonders & Districts (like a weaker version of China's & Aztec's abilities), Caste System could help to boost GPP production from Specialists, Indentured Labour could increase production from Workhouses, Harbours & Encampments (& possibly Jails too, if they make a re-appearance) & Organised Labour could produce Housing & Amenities from Factories & Power Stations.

    -More City Centre Buildings: Particularly in later ages, I think there is room for more buildings in the City Centre. Courthouses that help reduce city maintenance costs & increase loyalty. Jails & Police Stations that also help to reduce city maintenance. I'm sure there are others that I can't think of.

    -One More Building Slot for Districts: One District that desperately needs a late Renaissance or early Industrial Building is the Theatre District....namely an Opera House for Great Works of Music, but I am sure the other districts could benefit too. Neighbourhoods could probably benefit from extra buildings that can be built there (like Public Transport to increase Amenities, High Rises to increase housing, Freeways to boost the value of trade routes from that city).

    -Even more dynamic Envoy system: The Fabricate a Scandal system proved that it is possible for the envoy system to be more dynamic (envoys go up as well as down)....they really need to double down on this. More Spy Missions that can change up the number of Envoys in a City-State, losing Envoys via neglect, bullying or declaring war against City States....or by failing certain quests. Gaining Envoys by pledging to protect them, or by having their preferred government. Oh, & more quests per era would be nice too.

    I have other ideas too.....but those are my main ones.
     
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  10. conorbebe

    conorbebe Chieftain

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    • Expanded Diplomacy: Whether this be in the form of a World Congress-like system, or simply more options when it comes to interacting with other leaders and the AI.
    • Improved AI personalities: I think the agenda system is an idea that works better on paper than in play. It makes diplomacy with the AI feel unnecessarily robotic and artificial.
    • Canal District: Traversable by both land and naval units providing housing and trade route bonuses.
    • Return of Vassal States
    • Maritime City-States: Would provide Food bonuses to Capital and Harbor districts.
    • Expanded City-States: New ways of generating and losing Envoys. Allow City-States to conquer player cities and become empires. Also make City-States more powerful and harder to take (Walls at base please).
    • Simplify/Rework Culture Victory: I'm still confused about how exactly Tourism is generated.
    • More Units: How do we STILL not have trebuchets?!
    • More Civs, Alt Leaders, unique Palaces, and architectural styles: Because variety is fun!
    • UI Improvements
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  11. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Warlord

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    Heck YEAH!

    Regarding the culture victory, I agree that it is a bit obtuse because of how it is generated through this complicated formula of comparing offensive and defensive tourism and culture. I think a much simpler system would be for wonders, relics, great works to generate a fixed amount of tourism, the policy cards would still work the same to boost tourism, and you achieve a culture victory by being the first to reach say 1000 tourism.

    Yes for trebuchets! They need to be in the game ASAP!
     
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  12. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    There should be late game Dark Age cards that are focused on religion:

    • Creationism: Huge boost in faith at the cost of science
    • Moral Panic: Huge boost in faith and production at the cost of culture, tourism, gold, amenities, and loyalty

    Oh, and there should also be a religious belief called "Iconoclasm", which allows for the permanent destruction of wonders, antiquity sites, shipwrecks, and great works using apostles and inquisitors within your territory for a huge one-time boost in faith per item destroyed (as well as some negative diplomatic modifiers from civs that primarily don't practise an iconoclastic religion).
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  13. acluewithout

    acluewithout Chieftain

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    I really don't want the game to get bloated. R&F I think has done a good job of not creating bloat, but there are a few areas which make me worried: Specifically,

    - Buildings for Neighbourhoods: I really liked that some districts have buildings and some (housing related ones) don’t. Markets and Shopping centres kind of ruin this; I’d have preferred if they were city centre buildings.

    - Government Plaza; Legacy Cards, etc. I mostly like this stuff, but it does feel like a bit of a mish-mash. The first tier buildings feel like that have very cheesy effects, and aren't particularly immersive buildings (why is Rome building an Audience Chamber instead of a Senate?). And legacy cards seem a bit random (I think they would feel less random if some of the government buildings powers were provided as a sort of additional legacy card tied to that building).

    With this in mind:

    - Rather than Maritime City States, I'd rather maybe just a few more Military, Culture, Science and Merchant City States have Suzerain Bonuses which directly buff Harbours. Alternatively, maybe if you have six envoys in a Merchant City State it would give a gold bonus to Tier 3 buildings in Harbours.

    - I would really like to see English Long Bowmen and Trebuchets. But I think it's more important to keep the various cycle of upgrades and gaps in the tech tree. What I'd like to see is maybe for some Civs a basic unit is swapped out for something more culturally specific, but without necessarily any change in combat stats. i.e. just for flavour. So, England would get its Long Bowmen at Cross-Bows, but they would still work like cross-bows (just look cooler). If it was really necessary, these alternate 'cultural' units could give a bonus to your Era score when you made them (although then you'd need to make sure every civ had some extra way to get era score).
     
  14. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

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    -Expanded Cultural Victory Condition: Bring back all of the theming bonuses for Wonders that were in Civilisation V, & add theming bonuses for all District Buildings that hold a Great Work. Add extra ways to earn Writers, Artists & Musicians, & extra places to house their Great Works (Religious Buildings, for example, should be able to house a Great Work of Music....especially if you have the Choral Music belief). Bring back the Culture/Tourism effects of Civilisation V & the ethnic breakdown of cities from Civilisation IV .

    -Expanded Science Victory Condition: Satellite, followed by Person in Space, followed by Moon Landing, followed by Space Station, followed by Lunar Settlement, followed by Mars Settlement. Also, add more things to build to help players achieve these goals.

    -Expanded Religious Victory Condition: Bring back State & Non-State Religions (& Social Policies that tie into that), & bring back the Apostolic Palace.

    -Re-balance the acquisition of Great People: More Great People per era & more ways to get Great People Points, so that players get a more even number of Great People-of each type-across the whole game.

    -An improved World Congress/United Nations: Have a mechanic which utilises the best aspects of Civilisation VI (Emergencies, Agendas), Civilisation V (International Projects (ISS, Olympic Games etc) & Resolutions) & Civilisation IV. No voting for the "President of the World" though. Oh, & bring back the ability to use a Spy as a Diplomat for use with Major Civs, or as Envoys for City States.

    -Migration: Alongside loyalty, have factors like religion, economics, happiness, housing & culture lead to a movement of population points between cities (both domestic & international). Trade routes & tourism could also impact it, as could government & Social Policy choices. Cities with a strong ethnicity could help with certain spy missions too.

    -Agendas & Diplomacy: Make agendas less binary, & have their impact grow over time-from meaningless to deal-breaking-so its a little less annoying & more immersive. Also, have hidden agendas be more dynamic-where they can change during the game based on things that happen in the game (like a Civilisation that has been back-stabbed a few times in the game, already, might acquire the "back-stab averse" Hidden Agenda....even to the point of replacing the previous hidden agenda). Also, allow the possibility for a Civilisation to pick up 2-3 hidden agendas (in total) based on in-game events. Give us extra diplomatic options, like asking a Civilisation to change government, change state religion, or end a war against a third party.....maybe even demand they stop using a certain Social Policy.

    -City States & Barbarians: Have the possibility for City States to begin hostile, or quickly become hostile-both towards other City States & Major Civilisations. Let non-militaristic City-States build much more than just units. Let them build all Districts that are appropriate for the landscape, let them do projects & even let them try to complete Wonders. Aside from limited diplomacy options with Barbarians, also allow barbarians to potentially become settled & become either City-States or Independent Cities (hostile in both cases).
     
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  15. conorbebe

    conorbebe Chieftain

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    I would prefer this so much over the current system!
     
  16. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

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    Though a very minor thing, I would love to see the Holy War Cassus Belli moved back to Theology. Just makes more sense to me.
     
  17. Vahnstad

    Vahnstad Chieftain

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    - More maps variety (like civ IV, and we definitely need Terra)
    - Enhanced and more dynamic diplomacy
    - More conflict centered around ideologies + Ideologies overhaul
    - UN
    - Climate Change mechanics
    - Migration mechanics
    - New civs, leaders, city-states, units, policies, wonders and resources
    - Corporations maybe?
    - Vassalage
    - Colonization overhaul
    - Trade overhaul (international trade routes favouring certain civs)
     
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  18. Xmonger

    Xmonger Chieftain

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    In this video Ed Beach (lead designer) said in the pre-release to VI that they were leaving out the World Congress because it was too big to put in the base game but they were getting to it. (first few minutes)



    As I said above the next expansion will be called something like "Friends and Foes" and will be all about Diplomacy, my prediction

    • New mechanic: Influence points
    • Gain Influence throughout the game (being strong militarily, sticking to your promises, being loyal etc etc)
    • Diplomatic Victory is back
    • World Congress is back
    • Upgraded Spy system
    • Enhanced Diplomacy system which ties together City States, Alliances, Deals etc and adds some new overarching element
    • 9-10 new Civ
    • Maybe new district - Diplomatic Quarter
    • Fixes, improvements, etc
    And there would could be three major 'factions' that you have to negotiate and deal with or otherwise grain influence with

    I think it could be the 'meta-victory', maybe you get influence by pursuing all the other aims, such as being strong in science, culture, military, religion and game points
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  19. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

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    One other thing I would like to see in an Expansion is different government types having varying amounts of War Weariness for different kinds of Wars. Theologies, for instance, will gain the least amount of War Weariness for Holy Wars & Wars of Retribution; Monarchies & Oligarchies would gain the least amount of War Weariness for Wars of Retribution & Wars of Territorial Expansion; Merchant Republics would gain the least amount of War Weariness for Colonial Wars, Protectorate Wars & Wars of Reconquest; Democracies would gain the least amount of War Weariness for Liberation, Protectorate & Re-conquest Wars; Fascism would gain the least WW for Surprise Wars, Wars of Retribution & Wars of Territorial Expansion. Communism would gain the least amount of WW for Protectorate Wars, Re-Conquest Wars & straight up Formal Wars.

    This list wouldn't have to be definitive, but the idea I am getting at is that each Government type would be better at prosecuting a handful of War types better than other Governments.
     
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  20. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    Thank you for sharing this.
    Is there a point in the video that they talk about Barbarians? The video goes for over 18 minutes.
     

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