Next Stage of Agreements with KISS

[fe3333au]

Sent to letter to KISS ... also sent postcard with music see our g-mail for the effect

Photo Image ... Sad Clown Mask, with tear and in muted colours
Tune ... I Honestly Love You
Lettering ... Blue
Background ... Pale Pink
Message ... I'm sorry ... soooo sorry ... soooo very sorry ... etc
Effect ... or a possible

Dear friends in KISS

It is with true and weighted heart that I kneel at your feet and offer apologies to the perceived lack of consultation when it came to our last trade with TNT.

I honestly thought that I had discussed it with some idiot prior to the deal being made. It was always with a big picture view that I entertained knowledge swapping and have shown that the deals were beneficial to the Green Alliance and neutral at best for the Battle Islanders.

I take full responsibility for all actions, my team mates were in no way accountable. Perhaps we can put my crime down to over zealousness to collect as many technologies for the Alliance as possible for little cost. We can also add to this the swiftness of the game turns being sent.

I trust this will suffice and understand if I must now sharpen my own pencils

Yours in embarrassed submission

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

 

[fe3333au]

Chat with Daghie

fe3333au: hi Drummerman
sixpackholiday: hi there Pyro ... tada-tada-baaam

Get the mail yet?
fe3333au: I sent apology and also a gift to your g-mail
sixpackholiday: oh, nice. I'll go have a look

< about the e-card >
fe3333au: prepare to have tissues handy
sixpackholiday: is it a sexy girl pic
fe3333au: better
sixpackholiday: brb
fe3333au: LOL ... NO tissues are not for that !!! LOL

< Ummm ... not reaction I expected >
sixpackholiday: ok, pasted and commented
fe3333au: did you like the other gift
sixpackholiday: weeeell, not really
fe3333au: don't you like the song
sixpackholiday: it was a bit like mocking our concerns
fe3333au: don't take it like that
sixpackholiday: personally i don't ... others may

< Tedious Ego Massage >
fe3333au: Ultimately I had the best intentions ... and have gone through chat logs
sixpackholiday: we have to take your word for that
fe3333au: should be in your team's logs
sixpackholiday: if you find anything about it please share
fe3333au: not my fault that you guyz are not as anal as me
sixpackholiday: no one here says they knew anything before fact
fe3333au: oh
sixpackholiday: but i'm not into dwelling ... i think it was a really bad move
fe3333au: I can give you timeline if you wish
sixpackholiday: but what's done is done
fe3333au: sure ... and appology sent ...
sixpackholiday: it's just an explanation for the hesitation

Lets move on
fe3333au: and we acknowledge that together we are strong
sixpackholiday: i want to look fwd ...

WOW unexpected honesty ... or slip
sixpackholiday:
yeah we are, but y'know, ther's a planned future when there is just us
that has to be taken into account
where will we stand then?
at point Zero

fe3333au: we ultimately look to our own team's interest first
sixpackholiday: yes, we have to
fe3333au: and you going slow burn was a wake up for us

Agreements ... Fine Print MUST be Read !!!
fe3333au: so we must word the future agreements ... so that all interests are served
sixpackholiday: yes, and try to foresee ... possible probs
fe3333au: yes

Future and Onwards
sixpackholiday: about poly or constr.
fe3333au: yes

< Confused ... I don't see relationship to next line >

sixpackholiday: you'd prefer to get mono, then head for edu right?
fe3333au: i would ... but it is random ... so depends on what we get as free

< still cannot see connection ??? >
sixpackholiday: yeah lol, well, if we do poly ... and finish a few turns before you ... then when you send construction ... we have both and can choose feud or eng, right

Playing with the game to get Mono as free tech
sixpackholiday: doesn't that mean that the odds are better for you getting mono?
fe3333au: Oh I see if we choose feud, then the free tech will not be feud? ... or if we choose Mono ... the free tech is mono?
sixpackholiday: i'm not sure on the mechanics
fe3333au: I will ask our team ... can you research as well?
sixpackholiday: wyes
fe3333au: cos if we can manipulate ... I'm sure we will go for Edu ... cos it will be done faster
sixpackholiday: if we can tilt the odds it would be good
fe3333au: It will be brilliant

So lets walk before we run
fe3333au: So are you suggesting that MIA go for Construction?
sixpackholiday: let's await the mechanics dept ... but for now Yes

Why related ???
fe3333au: The MA tech scenario is not relivant to gettting out of AA
sixpackholiday: no, thats for laters
fe3333au: we will have to wait for the swap before we can both go there anyway ... so KISS will go for Poly and MIA will go for Construction
sixpackholiday: aha, you're saying we stay in AA until Education?

WOW must be the language
fe3333au: no
fe3333au: last turn in AA ... KISS have Poly and MIA have Construction ... we must swap to both go into MA
sixpackholiday: yes
fe3333au: so the mechanics of how we swap can be worked out later
sixpackholiday: but as it is turn based one go first anyway ... the team that finishes first
fe3333au: and give time for our brainiacs to see how we can manipulate the game to ensure that MIA are speeding for Edu ... while KISS go for other techs
sixpackholiday: yes

Calling all game sages
sixpackholiday: let's leave the mechanics to people like Tubby and MIA's eqvivalnts
sixpackholiday: i guess you have some # guys too
fe3333au: Chamnix is very good

First we both require a steady and stable walkway
fe3333au: We agree ... but we must first agree to the no tech trading with the other teams first
sixpackholiday: yes, we have no absolute decision made but talks are progressing

Chamnix Micomanagement reaction
fe3333au: He almost had a heart atack when he saw the TNT capital screen
sixpackholiday: Yeah, I figure LOL
fe3333au: I'll quote him ... 1 sec
sixpackholiday: lots of bad MM'ing ober there
fe3333au: His comment made me laugh out very loudly
sixpackholiday: shoot

< Hmmm ... anyone else signing in constantly ??? >
fe3333au: still getting it ... dial up remember and also have to log in all the time ... very strange
sixpackholiday: me too, very annoying
fe3333au: glad not just me ... so this happened when the forum was upgraded?
sixpackholiday: yes
fe3333au: I have to save before I post just incase it is lost
sixpackholiday: k
fe3333au: very frustrating
sixpackholiday: i'm cool, have 15 min's left
fe3333au: k

The Brilliant Comment
fe3333au: here we go

Interesting pics - these are the things that stand out to me:

OH GOD, LOOK AT THAT MICROMANAGEMENT!!! First, I don't think they should have a taxman in their capital, but even if they do, why wouldn't you move the citizen from the forest to the roaded mined river grass or to the fish. They would still complete the mounted warrior in 1, but they would also grow in 1 and pick up an extra gold. I don't know if that is typical of their play or not...

*runs off to take a shower to cleanse self after seeing that.

fe3333au: the end LOL ... post that so Tubby can laugh
sixpackholiday: we had some laughs too
fe3333au: but did you have to take a shower?
sixpackholiday: and i think the MM'ers saw the same oddities
sixpackholiday: no shower lol
fe3333au: What did you think of us?
sixpackholiday: i don't remember but it was not a reason to roll on the floor ... i think you were building a warrior ... nothing spectacular
fe3333au: I liked the 80's disco cover band ... so are you based in Simpleton?
sixpackholiday: yes
fe3333au: made me laugh
sixpackholiday: good, heh

< NEXT I don't know how to edit so will leave as it happened >

Barbarian Horseman Warning ... getting good faith established again
fe3333au: Oh btw ... we saw a barbnarian horse near your dye city ... and then he disappered

WTH
sixpackholiday: have you had thoughts of us moving cap?....ok, thanks

Still on with Warning
fe3333au: he may be dead cos we don't know if it attacked us ... or he may have moved

sixpackholiday: MAdv has warned about that

WOW ... certainly first time discussed with us .. maybe a Simponesque team
fe3333au: moving your capital?
sixpackholiday: yes, i saw you were asking about it earlier too
fe3333au: I don't remember chatting about it

Address the issue
fe3333au: I expect moving capitals is fine ... just as long as the city name remains the same
fe3333au: not our business
sixpackholiday: we've been through that
fe3333au: LOL

Mmmmm ... Provo ... the Good Olde Days
sixpackholiday: back in the provo days
sixpackholiday: kind o miss 'em
fe3333au: I may send a xmas prsent to KISS about that issue
sixpackholiday: all that mudslinging and hustling
fe3333au: In fact I will as soon as we sign our new agreement ;-)
sixpackholiday: looking fwd to it...both
fe3333au: yes both

Boating News
fe3333au: so our boats are going to pass soon ... Igor's Hope ... you having passed Nutter coast ... us entering
sixpackholiday: ok, cool, we'll meet ther
fe3333au: and wave
sixpackholiday: Ahoy
fe3333au: was it interesting on the coast?
sixpackholiday: Not really, no fights, no persians ... just the odd worker
fe3333au: just realestate
sixpackholiday: cactly

 

[Chamnix]

Well, we popped Polytheism. I'm sure it is going to turn out to be a mixed blessing because KISS will find a way to make our lives difficult. To me, it is obvious what should be done:

As I pointed out here, we have actually researched about the same amout of beakers as KISS. If we do Construction, then they can't afford it. In addition, they eventually want our free tech (after someone gets to Education).

The obvious answer is KISS does Construction while we continue to accumulate wealth. They give it to us for Polytheism. Once someone reaches Education, we exchange all techs (i.e. they get our free tech to get to parity). It essentially works out to them getting our free tech for Construction, but good luck getting them to see it that way

 

[fe3333au]

Damn ... I never thought I'd curse getting tech

I will send KISS a quick note ... actually I will send it after I have tweeked.

Dear KISSers

In the spirit of the renewal of faith and trust between our great peoples, I swiftly send this update.

In a truly Chinese sense, we live in interesting times. Just when things seemed to be close to reaching an understanding with a renewal of faith between us growing, our luck has borne fruit, the dancing fruit of Polyeithsm freshly popped from our last hut.

I never thought a day would come when I curse the popping of knowledge

What to do, how do we address our good ... ummm ... fortune ???

Off the top of my head ... are three options.

1. A possible solution is that one team research Construction, while the other team pay an equitable rate to the one who is set on maximum science rate.

2. Another is that we manipulate another team to research it for us both, while we both accumulate money.

3. The final is for KISS to research Construction. This would address the equity and compensation issue of MIA receiving a free Middle Age technology.

As you can see I am being absolutely transparent ... I would hear your thoughts on this ...


Regards


Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

EDIT ... sent to Whomp, Skippy and Dags, as well as the KISS g-mail.

I thought it prudent to act post haste on this

For the record ... in order of preference ...

> Option 3, I like as is.
> Option 1, requires tweeking and also discussion about the free tech.
> Option 2, is only there so that both teams can dismiss it.

 

[classical_hero]

Why are we bowing down to the demands ot KISS? We should not be worried about what techs we pop from huts, because KISS have officially refused to pop them, so we have taken the risk and have popped a few techs and thu we have reaped the benefit of this option. We are clearly playing much better than they are and we have reaped the benefit of such a strategy. I really hate the fact that we had to apologise for their errors. This is starting to make me mad.

 

[fe3333au]

You must look at the big picture ... and project what is the best thing in the long term for MIA.

I believe and unless something radically changes, that MIA's best course is to ally with KISS and together we can concentrate on a masive technology lead.

Also regarding the apology... we have chastised KISS for playing a good game in the past ... (and even been close to agression about luxuries) and they have apologised to us ... even sending gifts.

The game of diplomacy is with words and gestures ...

Would you honestly prefer for us, at this stage to go it alone?

... or ally with the double dealing Nutters ... or the irrational and universally hated TNT ??

... or perhaps you want us to abandon the smart path and have KISS ally with another team?

I agree with your sentiment, however it is not a big deal ... we are now aware of KISS' ultimate intensions and are taking all of these into account when forging future deals.

This is the reason that KISS are starting to get jumpy ... we can see their plans and are countering them ...

At the moment we are a quick step ahead ... BUT we should now ease off and let them settle down ... we are teetering on the edge at the moment ... and an action in haste will completely destroy all that we have managed to accomplish.

So if it takes an appology or even a little dance ... well let me put my tutu on and polish the tap shoes cos here I come

 

[fe3333au]

Quick note e-mailed from Daghie

Re: Interesting Times

LOL, give us some time to revise our just finished, sigh, proposal. Anyway, congrats.

Best
Daghie

 

[fe3333au]

Chat with daghie ... please remember this is all initial reaction and no feedback with other KISS members.

sixpackholiday: Hi there
fe3333au: hi
sixpackholiday: this will be short because i'll soon have to do some cooking
fe3333au: k

It Starts ... Daghie's Reaction
sixpackholiday: just a wee note on your proposals regarding Poly
fe3333au: yes ... first time I wish that we never popped a tech LOL
sixpackholiday: Poly is covered in our current deal
fe3333au: go on
sixpackholiday: well that's about it i guess
fe3333au: what current deal?
sixpackholiday: republic for the techs you have and we don't

< Didn't read his take on the Agreement >
fe3333au: the outstanding thing is we between us had 2 techs to research
sixpackholiday: now we only have one

< Now I'm getting the WRF !!! >
fe3333au: so are you saying we have to research construction
sixpackholiday: i'm saying that poly is something you have and we don't

< Don't go there ... Almost Fighting Words >
fe3333au: we are already giving you heaps of tech for republic ... to add poly to that then is way over
sixpackholiday: two turns ago you stated clearly that we will be given all your techs for republic so....

< 2 Turns ago is not the same mate !!! >
sixpackholiday: and agreement holds that too
fe3333au: is that your last word on the matter?
sixpackholiday: no

< back peddle >
sixpackholiday: just an initial thought
fe3333au: hope not ...because the three options are outlined
sixpackholiday: haven't been discussed by others yet

< Going to stress that we are NOT playing games here !!! >
fe3333au: I didn't add the 4th because i didn't think it would come to that ... but the 4th is a parting of the ways

< follows from his last post >
sixpackholiday: i guess they're putting up the x-mas trees
fe3333au: LOL ... is your's real or plastic

< Blah Blah ... light Banter about Xmas decorations and customs >

But ... I have to let Dags know ... that last comments unacceptible !!!
fe3333au: anyway ... about deal ... Poly is definitely NOT part of Republic swap
sixpackholiday: that is your final word on it I take
fe3333au: re Poly ... yes

< easing off a bit >
fe3333au: look at the beaker numbers ... more than fair as it stands
sixpackholiday: i'm not looking @ the beakers, only our agreement

< OK Stress again !!! >
fe3333au: Frankly KISS' attitude is most disturbing
sixpackholiday: for now it is only my spontaneous attitude...it may change y'know

< Logic of friendship >
fe3333au: We have the opportunity to really speed ahead together ... I don't see why you guys don't ... embrace this
sixpackholiday: brb
fe3333au: The republic deal stands as is ... we have already given Maths early when we didn't need to

Possible Solution ... I like it is similar to one option I proposed
sixpackholiday: wouldn't the fastes way be you start constr. right away and, we still have some turns left on rep, then we pay you for it
fe3333au: yes ... as in the option where one of us gives some gold per turn

add a bit more Sweetener to Deal
fe3333au: you would of course only start paying when Republic is finished
sixpackholiday: yes
fe3333au: that is probably good ... I feel good about it anyway
sixpackholiday: yeah #1...hmmm...well that might be the option but as i said, no one has commented yet and there's a lot of celts out there

So nothing decided officially yet ...
fe3333au: so can you get something to us in writing please ... outlining
1. republic,
2. No Trade with Others,
3. Final Construction,
4. anythingelse you think of,
5. Middle Ages Education

sixpackholiday: we were about to finish a proposal when the GH popped LOL
fe3333au: I read your message LOL
fe3333au: I sort of wish that we never popped Poly
sixpackholiday: let's see what the Yanks come up with tonight
fe3333au: yes ...

Nice Compliment
sixpackholiday: congrats to 2:d place in score ... peace pays off
fe3333au: yes ... I like that too ... and congrats to you 100 points better than the last team
sixpackholiday: thanks a bunch
fe3333au: We must remember that peace pays ...
sixpackholiday: we're tagging along nicely and whish to continue that way

sixpackholiday: the less blood the more gold
fe3333au: Tagging along LOL .. you guys are leading the game
fe3333au: Less Blood .. More Gold ... More Knowledge ... nice Mantra

Salute Mr. President
sixpackholiday: Cham's been working that settler fac nicely btw
fe3333au: I will pass it on .... he is a machine

Gossip from MIA
fe3333au: We are at the polls at the moment as well ... so MIA is very very busy

fe3333au: Looks like I will be FM again ...
sixpackholiday: Would you like a neutral observer of the polls
fe3333au: We already have RIK, GA and RM
sixpackholiday: Just say when and tell Ginger to give me access....heh
fe3333au: OK ... and I'll take on your duties as turn taker
sixpackholiday: settled then
fe3333au: agreed

< Hope no-one minds this ... it is good banter ... Bait >
fe3333au: the big election will be b/w Classical_Hero and Peter Grimes ... mud slinging already started
sixpackholiday: next prez?
fe3333au: at the moment probably same ... Chamnix

KISS Gossip
sixpackholiday: we haven't had a poll in ages ... we're just wingin' it
fe3333au: I thought who hates MIA poll would have been posted
sixpackholiday: no need for a poll there LOL
fe3333au: LOL

Great Game
fe3333au: Damned good game
sixpackholiday: yes it is, garee 100%
fe3333au: Although we are less numbers in teams ... we are all very dedicated and enjoying it
sixpackholiday: And I am so waiting for these threads to open up
fe3333au: me too

New Influx of KISSers
fe3333au: so you recently got new players
sixpackholiday: i've seen some sign up,yes
fe3333au: new or friends?
sixpackholiday: no one i know

<Throw in line >
fe3333au: I guess you can at least give the worker a name now
sixpackholiday: Whomper drafted some real aces for a while
fe3333au: yes you have a historian

< No Bite >
sixpackholiday: we have verything we need
fe3333au: LOL
sixpackholiday: verything was a funny word
fe3333au: sort of German

Passing on compliment
fe3333au: actually I must pass on a compliment to you
fe3333au: Peter and I were chatting ... and he is very impressed by your grasp of English ... I am too
sixpackholiday: oh, cool..
sixpackholiday: i must speak more so i sound like a bulldog too

Signing Off ... MIA stance hopefully noted
fe3333au: I await your written responce
sixpackholiday: i'll urge my fellow Idiots to start working on it
fe3333au: k

 

[fe3333au]

Chat with Skippy (Admiral_K) ... very enlightening

fe3333au: hey bigboy
Skippyshutt: what's up?

< spoke of King Kong and other frivolity >

Skippy instigator
Skippyshutt: may I ask an in game MTDG question or are we just having fun?
fe3333au: having fun ... but you can ask ... it will still be fun
Subject ... unexpected topic
Skippyshutt: k. This chaminix person ... we're worried
fe3333au: great leader ... yes ... why?
Skippyshutt: heavy hitter
fe3333au: explain
Skippyshutt: seems real serious and really focused

< KISS have number engineers as well >
fe3333au: what like tubby
Skippyshutt: I've met tubby. LOL
fe3333au: I bet there's a big fun side to Tubby
Skippyshutt: Tubs is a very family guy. Whomp is the party machine
fe3333au: he he

Back to topic
fe3333au: anyway back to your question ... so you see Chamnix as a big threat

< Hinting so they do the same ... sick of chats not being logged at KISS >
fe3333au: btw I will post the relivant section here on the MIA threads ... is that ok?
Skippyshutt: that's fine. like I wasn't gonna do that...

Wow ... big revelation
Skippyshutt: we question if we can afford to start a war on the other continent with him in control.

fe3333au: honesty is good ... what if I said we are not interested in being aggressive
Skippyshutt: u already did

< Exploring other victory methods >
fe3333au: and that a space race may be a fun thing to go for ... would make CFC history wouldn't it ... a game that doesn't end in military dominance
Skippyshutt: don't know, this my first (and last) demo game
fe3333au: (and last) ... you don't enjoy it?
Skippyshutt: too slow for me. I need 4 turns to get the flow and another 6 to set the plan. (why I like SG's)

Is us playing well ... a big problem
fe3333au: So the MIA tactics being good ... is that why things seem to have soured and gotten tense lately?

Skippy questions our prespective of him
Just curious, does your team think I'm stupid?
fe3333au: no ... we have not discussed you as such ... I have made comments ... and they are more about having fun with you
Skippyshutt: ?
fe3333au: and that you get unleashed sometimes and then ... watch out TNT
Skippyshutt: that I can do. but i've restrained myself, caused slinger et al are better
fe3333au: lol

< OK ... what about Tubby? >
fe3333au: so is tubby mad at me?
Skippyshutt: why are u pregnant?
fe3333au: no I took precautions ... he never got back to me about the pbem game he created a map for ... and the fact our last chat got a little heavy
Skippyshutt: wait a few, I need to go resolve something before I PMP
fe3333au: k
Skippyshutt: dammit, i'm having a crisis
fe3333au: ok ... need to go?
Skippyshutt: no just down to one LAST beer
fe3333au: LOL

< continued >
fe3333au: so is there a prob b/w tubby and I?
Skippyshutt: i'm pretty much out of the loop. since I haven't actually played a turn yet. there's some concern about all the new techs u all have popped, as well as your age freebie

About the Sorry e-card ... must be my humour
fe3333au: oh and did you get my e-card ,,, which was to be a joke ... and not taken too seriously
Skippyshutt: it sent me to the therapist, this is christmas, not halloween

About the tech popping
fe3333au: Poly was popped at last hut ... honest ... I wish we got cash ... cos it makes things difficult
Skippyshutt: big debate about whether is was a mistake to let u have the huts
fe3333au: We are waiting for a fair agreement draft from you at this stage
fe3333au: Oh well ... history now
Skippyshutt: given, chaminix, we're paranoid to be honest. some of our peeps know his rep.
fe3333au: Better a friend than an enemy surely

What else can i say other than ... trust us
fe3333au: honestly we are not an agressive nation ... and would prefer the Green Alliance
Skippyshutt: we were ramping up for other continent invasion and then **** happened
fe3333au: I see ... is **** still happening?
Skippyshutt: that's the crux, poly makes u nervous
fe3333au: cos if you attack us ... it will be stupid and Nuts and TNT will be the ones to benefit

We have been playing fairly ... where is the trust ?
fe3333au: I could have kept it secret ... surely that tells you something ... but I must admit all this paranoia is making us nervous about being able to trust you guys !!!
Skippyshutt: u fly into the MA and get the infantry thingy guys. leaves our ass in the wind
Skippyshutt: richard millhouse nixon - even paranoids have enemies

Well we are yet still awaiting some form of responce, before we can talk about MA
fe3333au: ummm ... that's why I waiting for answers and fair options from you ... we speak logical
Skippyshutt: I need some of those drugs. I've never been logical. LOL
fe3333au: if we get free tech that is not on the education line ... then logically you must research for Edcation

Good at least this will get posted
Skippyshutt: how bout I share this with geek boy and then we let the smart peeps talk/
fe3333au: that whole republic thing went haywire ... you only have self to blame ... why go slow when we were trading once Republic was finished ??? ... that was crazy and confusing
fe3333au: geek boy?
Skippyshutt: geek boy is tubs

< Good we will be on same page then in future chats >
fe3333au: oh ... I would expect all of this game talk to be posted ... I always do .. that way I know exactly what has been agreed to
fe3333au: If tubby can work out a way for us to get mono for free ... we are very happy to go for Education rush
fe3333au: and don't make any puns about mono and kissing
Skippyshutt: fu. lol

< OT ... Whomp has reasons to go to UK ... Engaged >

Skippyshutt: I need to go report to geek boy. lets mutally sign off and tell your team that idiot doesn't mean stupid.

leave with a geographic female metaphor
fe3333au: guess what part of woman is named after tasmania?
Skippyshutt: the brain?
fe3333au: if I say show us your map of tassie
fe3333au: tasmania is triangular
Skippyshutt: they bare their breasts?
fe3333au: further south
Skippyshutt: I was close
fe3333au: anyway cya
Skippyshutt: bye

fe3333au: and I hope peace and trust will prvail

 

[fe3333au]

We are balancing on tight rope diplomatically ... the War is cold at an iron or bamboo curtain.

I hope that Whomp when he returns, will be able to ease the tension.

Either way ... new motto ... Be Prepared and Plan for the Worst ... we should go into survivalist mode and get our defences happening !!!

 

[Chamnix]

LOL - I had no idea that I was the problem. I don't know exactly what my "rep" is - I've never played multiplayer so I can't have a reputation for dishonesty yet... unless the AI told them something

 

[peter grimes]

Fe: I think mentioning the slow burn on Republic doesn't serve any good at this point. We've made our point, and whenever it's brought up it really seems to get under their skin. I think I'd leave it alone in the future.

Likewise, they are having a debate about whether or not it was a good idea to let us have the huts. Again, this was an agreement, which, by definition means that both sides approved. There may have been reservations, but memory of reservations should not cloud analysis of circumstances.

We need to get KISS to understand the we support the idea of invasion. We may have our own method of invasion, but we are not going to hinder their expansionist desires.

KISS must also understand that, as we have said many times, KISSMIA will enter the Middle Ages at Tech Parity! There is no other way - for MIA or for KISS. We can't get to the MA without them, and they can't get there without us.

Let's just remember, and make certain KISS remembers, that they will be getting our MA tech. The only thing we have to work out is when... At the very latest, they will be getting the tech once BOTH gunpowder and education are researched. There may be another way to go about this, but it risks passing the MA tech to BattleIsle. I'm not sure we want that risk, but again - it all will be determined once we know what the tech is.

 

[fe3333au]

OK ... I'll let by gones be ... or at least try

it is fun (and sometimes essential) to burst their momentum when they start ranting ... sheesh ... don't know how else to handle it ... it's like an endless whinge ...

KISS - We don't like this, we don't like that
MIA - But you agreed ?!
KISS - <no comment> ... followed by more strained silence.
MIA - <confussed pacing>

Hindsight ... we should probably saved goody hut so that Monarchy was only remaining AA tech ... very valuable fro trade ... Oh well

Feaurius' 3rd Law of Diplo-dynamics
As with Newton, every action is getting an equal an opposite reaction ... Honesty with KISS begats equal honesty on their side right back to us ...


The Crux
The real issue is that we are playing a better game then they thought ... and have inadvertently stalled some of their plans.


OK ... enough of that ... what about the Free MA Tech issue

So ... are we in agreement that we will be trading on our free tech as soon as Education is discovered ... I don't have a problem with this ... BUT I am a little confused, guess I'm getting mixed messages ... and will await KISS' written responce.


Best solution ... MIA neutralise Great Library
I honestly hope that there is a way to direct our MA research path ... if we can get Mono for free, we can certainly have neutralised the Great Library threat before KISS have probably begun Gunpowder.

Then we can relook our deal ... and maybe if KISS are still paranoid ... both race for Gunpowder

 

[Chamnix]

We can't get to the MA without them, and they can't get there without us.

Actually, we can. All we need to do is research Construction (or trade for it from TNT if it comes to that). We don't need Republic if KISS is going to be foolish about this.

Let's just remember, and make certain KISS remembers, that they will be getting our MA tech.

So ... are we in agreement that we will be trading on our free tech as soon as Education is discovered

I agree with this if KISS researches Construction. I'm not really sure how we justify giving it to them without that, but that is a surefire way for them to get it.

Anyway, I think we just keep waiting for the real proposal that they say they are working on, and go from there.

 

[fe3333au]

I agree with this if KISS researches Construction. I'm not really sure how we justify giving it to them without that, but that is a surefire way for them to get it.

Last chat with Daghie, he suggested that we research Construction and start now as it reduces time we both wait for the jump into MA.

While researching, MIA get gifted gold per turn by KISS ... I actually proposed that the reimbursement begin after Republic has been researched.

Since I was trying to accommodate the deal and urge KISS to relax back into supporting our Alliance ... for me, this seemed like a good and fair proposal, still does.

I guess we wait and see what is being proposed ... however maybe we can start on Construction while we wait, maybe slowish burn 10% to 30% ... we have to get it anyway and I fear TNT will take too long and cost us too much.

I assume we are still wanting to stay in an Alliance with KISS ... the question we must answer is How far do we bent before we break ?!?

 

[Chamnix]

I agree having them pay us while we research Construction is fair. My comment that you quoted above is with respect to our giving them our free tech - they can pay us for Construction, but then do they pay us more for our free tech? Or they can just pay us for our free tech by researching Construction themselves and giving it to us.

There is definitely a case for us to research Construction to get it sooner, but I am reluctant to spend the money until we know where our deal is going. Not researching now will not hurt us long term - we will be able to run deficit research on something else.

Also, it is already not clear who would finish Construction first anymore - we could start now (about 7 turns before KISS), but we will spend up to 7 turns more than KISS in anarchy, so it is not obvious we would be able to finish before they could.

As each turn passes, it becomes more likely that they could finish first.

I don't know how much we bend - hopefully things will be clearer when they tell us what they want. I wish they would hurry up and send their formal proposal already, but we must be patient.

 

[fe3333au]

Mutter Mutter ... Grinding Teeth ... Pacing Pacing ...

Why is the time candle burning so slow !!!

 

[Chamnix]

The more I think about it, the more this comment really disturbs me.

we question if we can afford to start a war on the other continent with him in control.

Either they think I am dishonest, in which case I really want an explanation, or they think I am so good that if they went overseas then we could give 10 turns notice and conduct a successful attack on our continent. Now, I grant you, I was advocating exactly that, but they can&#8217;t know that.

I think maybe we should consider extending the warning period for war &#8211; right now either side can break the peace with 10 turns notice. We could sign an agreement to stay at peace unless a 20-turn warning is given. Hopefully that will make them (and us!) feel a little safer.

I don&#8217;t think we should send any formal proposal until they do, but if fe3333au catches them (or gets caught by them) in a chat, maybe he could mention it as an idea we were bandying about.

Also, I had a thought about a little &#8220;gamesmanship&#8221; on our part. I could pretend to have to step down as President due to real life issues. I could still play the save and attach it to a gmail, but then someone else could type a message, send the save, and post in the turn tracker thread. Although we certainly aren&#8217;t going to let them tell us who our President should be, if I am the problem then we can make them think that I am not the one playing.

 

[peter grimes]

I had a few thoughts along the same line, Chamnix. However, really don't think we should do anything like that this term. Maybe later in the term, but not for a while.

After all, to quote a wiseman, KISS may be idiots, but they're not Stupid

Also, KISS have some very skilled players on their team. It's insulting to think that they may have problems with us depending on who is posting in our threads. I hope Whomp straightens all of this mess out.

They don't realize that the person elected 'president' has just as much say in our actions as someone not elected to any position.

 

[classical_hero]

I agree with Chamnix.