Next step building adjustments

[Stalker0]

IMO it isn't about whether or not to build them. If you are really looking at balance issues then you want to go past something deserving to be in the game. You want to look at whether the building is attractive enough to cause someone to hesitate on the decision to build this building or another one because they are both actually good to build. That sounds like balance to me. Giving buildings multiple uses moves them out of the niche or specific need category into a part of the strategy category. If the Medical Lab could use a bump then I think it stands to reason that the Hospital could use one too. It is also good to remember that the late game really needs to be picked up and every advantage put in to help with the happiness system is going to help the AI. I really think we need to make it easy for the AI to avoid happiness issues.

To your point here, I think that the med lab and the hospital are both good buildings from a bonus standpoint.

I look at these guys and say "I want to build you". I often don't because it takes so long to build them.

With our current change, I can build these buildings much faster than before. That is a very powerful change, and I just don't see the need to pile on even more. Lets try it out with just the cost reduction and see if its useful enough.

 

[NarrativeKnight]

I think we have all done a good job of compromising on this list so far and going ahead with testing as is should be fine. The drop in cost for the hospital and lab are a great start so a wait and see approach there wouldn't be disagreeable.

I think we need to get a lot of testing in through full games to see what the AI is going to do with what we are giving it to use. It is great to get it working for us but it won't be balanced until we know the AI can keep up with the changes too.

Ingolenuru on Steam

 

[Stalker0]

Anymore feedback on V1.3? Or are we all good for this as the next integration into the mod?

 

[mystikx21]

There were I think two questions
1) the stable cost
2) the XP scale for military buildings.

And then two programming questions
1) How to get courthouse to scale cost? (if desired)
2) How to do an anti-air defence for the military base (Firaxis changed the modifier used when they put in the airport).

Everything else looks good for now. I'd potentially like to have hotels and observatories interact with mountain tiles, for a little flavor, but that's not a pressing balance need.

 

[Stalker0]

There were I think two questions
1) the stable cost
2) the XP scale for military buildings.

And then two programming questions
1) How to get courthouse to scale cost? (if desired)
2) How to do an anti-air defence for the military base (Firaxis changed the modifier used when they put in the airport).

Everything else looks good for now. I'd potentially like to have hotels and observatories interact with mountain tiles, for a little flavor, but that's not a pressing balance need.

Alright lets tackle these.

1) I am willing to go with a small stable cost decrease (10-15%). I don't think it needs a major change.

2) So with our current proposed changes to the armory and MA, do we think they are good now as is?

 

[Gazebo]

Alright lets tackle these.

1) I am willing to go with a small stable cost decrease (10-15%). I don't think it needs a major change.

2) So with our current proposed changes to the armory and MA, do we think they are good now as is?

I think so, yes.
G

 

[skodkim]

Is anyone handing these changes over to Gazebo?

\Skodkim

 

[mystikx21]

Some stuff there on buildings/economy.

We'd need the armory/military academy changes.

 

[lockstep]

Buildings V1.3

[...]

Observatory - +4 science, +15% science. Can be built on a city within 2 of a mountain tile

I suggest to use +3 science, +17% science instead. The result is about the same, but for those of us who like to do quick mental arithmetic, the combined science modifier of Universities, Observatories, and Research Labs would be +100% (instead of +98%).

Also, consider to make Observatories purchasable with faith using the Jesuit Education reformation belief (like it is already possible for the earlier Universities and the later Public Schools).

Amphitheater - +1 culture to Dye, +2 culture
Opera House - +3 culture, +1 culture with Silk. Amphitheater no longer a prereq
Museum - Opera House no longer a prereq
Broadcast Tower - Museum no longer a prereq

Opera House, Museum, and Broadcast Tower: Consider to make the Monument a prereq for all of them. If nothing else, it helps the AI.

 

[mystikx21]

We could change the university to 35% in exchange for slightly higher cost, -1 on jungle, and moving a scientist slot to another building (library or observatory). 33% is weird anyway.

Agreed on jesuit education belief helping there too.

Monument might be okay as a pre-req yes. It's the entire tiering process that causes issues in the balance of the buildings.

 

[lockstep]

We could change the university to 35% in exchange for slightly higher cost, -1 on jungle, and moving a scientist slot to another building (library or observatory). 33% is weird anyway.

Hey, it's the integer closest to "one third". And 17% the one closest to "one sixth".

Seriously, a modifier of +33% is used quite often in unmodded Civ5, and there's also at least one +17% modifier (additional University science with the Free Thought policy).

 

[mitsho]

Well, whatever. I don't really care how it adds up to 100% in the end, but that's quite an even and clear number, so yeah, just do it

 

[Gazebo]

Version 1.3 will be incorporated into next version of CBP, with some small changes. You have been warned/alerted.

G

 

[skodkim]

Looking forward to it!

\Skodkim