Ngomele civilization, a modmodmod for Orbis

[Opera]

Updated!
It was quite easy, in fact. I used WinMerge (which I then just discovered and all I have to say is that it's really useful) for Python and the editor for XML (and WinMerge for the non-editor friendly files). I had a bit of trouble with the new lines you added but it was quick to repair. Now I can mod on 0.22d

It will probably show in the 'replaced by' list if you add a default building in buildingclassinfos. Right now for civbuildings it is NONE, so it does not show.

I could try. If I put NONE for those without a civbuilding, they won't be able to use the "default" building, I think. I'll give it a try, just because it would be nice to see all the unique buildings a civilization has. However, for the unique classes, it won't work. Their isn't many unique buildingclasses but their is quite a number of unique unitclasses.

Just color code the fields in editor. I removed most of my coding (except added fields in green) so you can choos any colour you want

Great! I kept my soft red

Funny you mention WAAGH!

I'm not a fan of this universe but I did do some research a while back (don't remember why) and I found this. It really made me laugh

I am not sure if your idea can be implemented well without dll changes to make it work as extra yields from sea (i.e. lighthouse). It is certainly unique and interesting, but hard to balance and even harder to code. In general, it is best if all this is handled by the city, so the tiles themselves are not touched. There are plenty of tile changes in FfH (hell terrain, ice, terraforming spells), so it might be quite complicated to make it work.
I would probably allow them to build pastures or camps without bonus (doable in python). You can just add some special yields for specific improvements. Now that I think of it, a unique improvement does not seem that bad. Python per turn slows turns and I already do not feel well using it for forts and deep jungle.
Anyway, that is your civ, so you need to decide what you think is best. I am just glad it is not my role

I will try with Python for now. If it's finally too hard to balance or to keep track of due to terrain changes, I will try to mod the DLL (I may try that anyway). If it's really a PITA, I'll revert back to what you said (more or less). Although the pasture without resource is a neat idea. Hm, need to think!

Now some plus sides. First, how do you like the gnoll racial icon (attached below). Second, council tree is in the orbis art pak file for patch 0.22d and in art defines for buildings (on top) so you just need to link the building to it. It might use some enlargement though, as it is a wonder.
I am working on gauri buildings, some of them seem to be broken and that was the reason for your problems.

First: it's great! I love it! Thanks
Second: Neat and like it too! Thanks twice
Third: Alright then. I was still wondering if I had done something weird with those buildings.

A bit of update on my side:
The beta is still not close. Holidays are coming to an end (even though they might get extended due to teachers strike here) so maybe a couple of weeks more to wait, depending on my work rate. I still have many python to do (and I really like doing it, so much more than doing XML!) and some XML along with it. No unit is ready yet and just a few buildings.

An idea I had when looking to all the gnoll art I gathered is to add some gnoll GPs. I have three right now and maybe some others to come. I won't add a lot of them, maybe 5 or 6. If you prefer, Ahwaric, I'll release them in another pack, so you don't have to bother with them if you don't want to

Finally, two other things: I want to add the diplo music for the beta (more waiting time for civ_king ) and will do it. BTW, would it be zealous to add two music, one for peace and one for war? I just don't know how to choose just one Secondly: I warn you that no model is ready yet. I'll have to contact Valkrionn about it but if I don't have any model for the beta, I'll release it nonetheless. I care more about the music than the models for now. But eventually, I'll need them. Might have to look at some tutorials...

 

[xienwolf]

However, there is two (at least) serious issues:

1) What if the terrain changes? The yields won't (the extra yields would be applied to the nature yields anyway) but then maybe some of those yields wouldn't have to be there. If this flat riverside plain tile of above did go to grassland, 2 and 1 from the extra yields and gain 1 and lose 1 from the nature yields changing; bringing it to 3 2. The technical side of the issue is that the extra yields are done at the creation of the building, once and for all (unless destruction of the city). It would certainly be painful to check every tile every turn... So I don't know what to do.

2) How to handle resources? If they can't build improvements, that means they can't grab resources, which is certainly wrong. Moreover, they would lose some pretty benefits from improvements on resources. So, I thought of two workarounds:
2a) Using special spells for the Worker unit that enable it to build improvements on top of resources.
2b) Using a ritual (in this case more a project): the Resources Handling Expedition. When finished, it would create needed improvements on top of resources in the big fat cross of the city.
Consequent issue of using improvements on resources: HUGE yields. Just adds the benefits of Horse+pasture on the flat riverside plain tile above...

I'm afraid about having to cut this feature out. I'd like to keep it but it seems to be a PITA to make it work correctly. The main obstacle is that I can't just do checks all the time. Even if it'd just checks around cities, it'd likely lengthen the time between turns. But it could be done with checks: for 1), checking each turn and applying good extra yields depending on the city infrastructure; for 2), adding a bit of code in the spell function (or the project's) to check what is the city's infrastructure and then redo the extra yields of the plot according to it.

You know what? Third issue showing its ugly face: how about overlapping BFC? If the two cities haven't the same infrastructure, the yields would be changed...

Huh, this is not good...

You really do need to be in the DLL unfortunately. Or wait till I get around to Aspects, but that could be more than a year still, and I doubt you'd want to wait


You can even connect resources without requiring improvements if you get into the DLL. And since you can base the tile changes on the city instead of the tile, you can have it only affect the tiles which this city controls, thus avoiding tile overlap issues.

So, hate to say it, but you have to embrace the TRUE dark side of the modding world sooner or later. Why not now?

 

[Opera]

So, hate to say it, but you have to embrace the TRUE dark side of the modding world sooner or later. Why not now?

Because it scary!

I think I could follow the bread crumbs of RiverPlot and mimic it for PlainPlot, GrassPlot, etc. However, I'm really afraid at the thought of modding these huge messy files

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, I've avoided the DLL like a plague... Haven't had anything to do in there yet, thankfully.

With the art from Warcraft, I just could not get it to work. I know a bit more about 3DS so I could possibly get it right this time, but my 30 day trial is up. I'll try again once I'm finished with Doviello+ though.

 

[Opera]

No problem, take your time

xienwolf: Would you mind explaining to me or pointing threads where I could have a description of what you mean by Aspects?

 

[civ_king]

Updated!
It was quite easy, in fact. I used WinMerge (which I then just discovered and all I have to say is that it's really useful) for Python and the editor for XML (and WinMerge for the non-editor friendly files). I had a bit of trouble with the new lines you added but it was quick to repair. Now I can mod on 0.22d

I could try. If I put NONE for those without a civbuilding, they won't be able to use the "default" building, I think. I'll give it a try, just because it would be nice to see all the unique buildings a civilization has. However, for the unique classes, it won't work. Their isn't many unique buildingclasses but their is quite a number of unique unitclasses.

Great! I kept my soft red

I'm not a fan of this universe but I did do some research a while back (don't remember why) and I found this. It really made me laugh

I will try with Python for now. If it's finally too hard to balance or to keep track of due to terrain changes, I will try to mod the DLL (I may try that anyway). If it's really a PITA, I'll revert back to what you said (more or less). Although the pasture without resource is a neat idea. Hm, need to think!

First: it's great! I love it! Thanks
Second: Neat and like it too! Thanks twice
Third: Alright then. I was still wondering if I had done something weird with those buildings.

A bit of update on my side:
The beta is still not close. Holidays are coming to an end (even though they might get extended due to teachers strike here) so maybe a couple of weeks more to wait, depending on my work rate. I still have many python to do (and I really like doing it, so much more than doing XML!) and some XML along with it. No unit is ready yet and just a few buildings.

An idea I had when looking to all the gnoll art I gathered is to add some gnoll GPs. I have three right now and maybe some others to come. I won't add a lot of them, maybe 5 or 6. If you prefer, Ahwaric, I'll release them in another pack, so you don't have to bother with them if you don't want to

Finally, two other things: I want to add the diplo music for the beta (more waiting time for civ_king ) and will do it. BTW, would it be zealous to add two music, one for peace and one for war? I just don't know how to choose just one Secondly: I warn you that no model is ready yet. I'll have to contact Valkrionn about it but if I don't have any model for the beta, I'll release it nonetheless. I care more about the music than the models for now. But eventually, I'll need them. Might have to look at some tutorials...

meany...

 

[xienwolf]

Oh yeah, sorry. Was in a hurry then. Aspects is one of the major systems I have planned to design for the game, it is essentially a promotion system for plots. Thus for your plot yield changes you would simply place a prereqTerrainType and prereqWorkingBuilding and they would work flawlessly as envisioned.

 

[Valkrionn]

And the plant civ would be completely controlled by aspects as well.

 

[Opera]

Will be great! But I won't wait till then, I'll just use python for now; now being the time it takes to learn to mod the DLL. Surely, when your Aspects come out, I'll use them though

As for the plant civ, is there a post where your idea is described? I'm pretty sure it's different from mine

 

[Valkrionn]

There was, but I've been completely unable to find it.... It's somewhere in the FF forum.

 

[Opera]

Update time!

I added the Soul Forge-esque building mechanic. So far, it checks some things to set the amount of food brought in the nearest city, like if the unit is a beast, if Animal Husbandry and/or Tracking has been discovered, etc. For now, the building is a replacement of the smokehouse that is available from start but I may make it a building that comes with city founding. Makes more sense as they are that way, scavenging nearby deads.

I also added +30% vs. animal units for every Gnoll. They are brilliant hunters. And yes, it means that the Scout as +30 and +50% against animals unit. I may replace it with an early hunter, less mobile but able to gain the "food carrying" promotions. Thus he would have to be tough enough to be useful at this

The next high priority things I have to do are:
- Working the Improvers buildings (the ones that change the terrain)
- Working on a late game (high AC) ritual
- Adding the "carry food" mechanic
- Working units & buildings

I also still have no world spell and no idea for the Shur spells (apart that I would like to split it in two "path", basically "offensive" and "buffing" paths).

 

[Opera]

Added the "carry food" mechanic. Using another callback, though...
From start, there is 10% chance to get a "carry food" promotion after winning a combat, for any unit having the gnoll promotion. Some promotions (new ones) enhance this chance. I think of adding more numerous but less strong "enhancing chance" checks. For the moment, there is only two that add each 30 to a variable that needs to be at least at 90 for the promotion to be gained.

I still have to do the "use food" side. As I said (much) earlier, the more food the unit has, the more interesting the effects of using it will be.

I would like the "carry food" promotions to have a chance to wear off per turn and then degrade to the level below but the problem is that when I check if the unit earned its promotion, I remove the previous one. So, if it has Food1, it is removed and Food2 is given. However, due to the inherent mechanics of PromotionDegradesTo, if I remove Food1 this way, the unit automatically gain NoFood; if I remove Food2 to give Food3, it gains Food1! Maybe this can be worked around by disallowing other food promotions when one is active. May try that

 

[BenjaminEmbarec]

I'm not sure if it would work... or what EXACTLY the food promos do... But perhaps make them stack, lower the give-out so that even stacked they'll end up doing what they would orriginally [for example, food1 gives the city 10 food when used, food 2 gives 20... so just have that give 10 as well and stack them.] That way you can have it so that it only removes one of them, and it won't really matter which one gets removed? Might be easier, or might be harder.

 

[Opera]

@BenjaminEmbarec: Well, this could work. It may take too much place on the screen though... Three "useless" promotions

Would it be to much to use one music theme for peace and one for war, seeing that all others use just one? I can't choose between all those songs...

 

[Valkrionn]

Honestly, I'd prefer as much music as possible.

 

[civ_king]

make a bunch... (well get a bunch that is) music is good, maybe a gamelan band's music would work (just found a youtube of one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orUftdTlDow&feature=related)

 

[Opera]

I was more thinking about three tracks of the Serpent's Egg (Dead Can Dance again!). Namely, the 06, Chant of the Paladin; the 08, Echolalia and the 09, Mother Tongue. Particularly the 08 and 09.

I will dump the "only by building" improved terrain tiles. Well, not entirely; let me explain. I will still use this mechanic but only with more "stable" features than with terrain types. The more stable feature I'm referring to are: hills, coast, ocean and rivers. Well, peaks too but I don't plan on using them. Coast, ocean and rivers must not vary at all during a game, I think. You can't turn an ocean tile to a plain tile, for example. A flat->hill spell must exist (Khazad?) but it doesn't really concern the Ngomele... So the bonus on hills would be terrain type free, meaning I won't check every turn if the bonus should rescale or not. For coast, ocean and rivers, there won't be a need to check either.

However, this doesn't mean that they will be able to build improvements. At least, not every improvement. They will be able to build them on resources (BTW, they would have a huge food penalty for farms) and will be able to build some of them elsewhere. "Some of them" = two improvements: the pasture and the ranch (a new one, since Ahwaric said "it's not that bad" ). They will only be buildable on, respectively, grasslands and plains. I'll use the ranch for horses, giving them more food.

So, mostly, I tweaked my initial idea because it was hard to do, a pain for the game to check and a pain for me to balance nicely, especially late game wise. With the ranch, I could use some techs to improve it in order to make it competitive against other late game improvements. I couldn't really to that appropriately otherwise.

 

[Valkrionn]

Sounds good... If only Xienwolf had made his aspect system already.

I don't think I'd make the ranch TOO competitive. Rather, I'd give them a UB or two for commerce and call it a day.

 

[Opera]

Certainly. They will heavily rely on their buildings to build their economy, both (thrice?) for food, hammers and commerce. Anyway, we'll see after the beta and some test games

However, I don't want to see all the countryside clogged up with pasture and ranches... Maybe a thing like the pirate coves? Not in 3 tiles or something...

 

[Valkrionn]

To do that, you have to resort to spells sadly. Which the AI doesn't understand.