NiGHTS: General Discussion

[markusbeutel]

Workers are replacing the Silver mine. Pasagrade is invisible. Do all of the new improvements have 3d graphics? I saw academy for sure.

Workers currently replace new improvements when automated so you'll have to keep an eye out for them. The improvements should all have graphics. What is pasagrade? An improvement or a building? Some buildings have terrain reqs that if not met the building won't appear in the build list. Likewise some improvements like the parsonage can only be built on grasslands otherwise the graphic to build them wont show up.

 

[The Amorphist]

Found a bug; I have access to the second two governments (the ones not available until the classical era...) immediatly.

Also, I'm a little confused on the "allocation bonus" listed at the top of each government tree. For example, if it is red (-) for "25% Culture Cost Per Policy", does that mean it costs 25% less, or more? Not to sound dumb, but when people put things in red, it tends to mean "bad", but in this case, it wouldn't.

Also, can I only have one government active at a time?

One last thing; Am I supposed to start the game with 1 unhappiness? (Level 7). I mean, if I can't even build my first worker for 20 turns, what fun is it...

 

[markusbeutel]

Found a bug; I have access to the second two governments (the ones not available until the classical era...) immediatly.

Also, I'm a little confused on the "allocation bonus" listed at the top of each government tree. For example, if it is red (-) for "25% Culture Cost Per Policy", does that mean it costs 25% less, or more? Not to sound dumb, but when people put things in red, it tends to mean "bad", but in this case, it wouldn't.

Also, can I only have one government active at a time?

One last thing; Am I supposed to start the game with 1 unhappiness? (Level 7). I mean, if I can't even build my first worker for 20 turns, what fun is it...

Overall it sounds like you need to verify your cache for civ on steam. Also make sure other mods are disabled and previous verions of nights are deleted. Also make sure you have the latest version 7.1 - installed from the downloads section here on civfanatics.

Yes, red is bad and blue is good. Allocation and government building bonuses carry over after switching governments and stack on top of each other as do any negative modifiers to stability. Only the individual policies are disabled - but again, Unrest accrued from policies carries over.

You shouldn't start off with unrest. Verifying the cache and making sure you have your copy of civ updated solves this issue.

Governments from different eras disable each other. You shouldnt have access to any government other than Despotism to start the game.

Verifying and updating should solve all your problems. That and disabling other mods, deleting old versions of NiGHTS.

Hope this solves the bugs for

 

[The Amorphist]

Had something to do with other mods I suppose; Disabled everything but RED, now when I start as Persia I have 2 pretty dove symbols ;-)

To clarify; should I have access to all the buildings no matter what resources my empire has? Ie able to build Distillery with no wine? I think I understand it in that having that resource simply makes that improvement that much better.

Am I right to think this mod tends away from the ICS and moves more towards big powerful cities, at least in the beginning? Growth seems much much much slower (population wise).

Also, mentioning those specialist buildings; Say I have a Distillery in my Capitol, but wine in a second city with no Distillery. Does the Distillery in my capitol get that +3 Production Bonus?

Thanks for clarifying, and breathing new life into the game.

 

[markusbeutel]

Had something to do with other mods I suppose; Disabled everything but RED, now when I start as Persia I have 2 pretty dove symbols ;-)

To clarify; should I have access to all the buildings no matter what resources my empire has? Ie able to build Distillery with no wine? I think I understand it in that having that resource simply makes that improvement that much better.

Am I right to think this mod tends away from the ICS and moves more towards big powerful cities, at least in the beginning? Growth seems much much much slower (population wise).

Also, mentioning those specialist buildings; Say I have a Distillery in my Capitol, but wine in a second city with no Distillery. Does the Distillery in my capitol get that +3 Production Bonus?

Thanks for clarifying, and breathing new life into the game.

Growth should seem much faster in NiGHTS if you have version 7.1 installed. Growth was MUCH slower in any earlier builds. Your cities will also reach a much larger size. Almost all Ancient techs have buildings that grant bonuses for having the resource so as not to limit any of the starting techs from not being able to build something right away. The bonus for a resource is only if the resource is local in that city, ie the distillery only gets the bonus for the specific city its in unless stated otherwise in the tooltip.

Glad you like it so far

 

[The Amorphist]

Something I've noticed now that I've started around 5 games...

Since that first one I played, where things were messed up by other mods, resources are REALLY REALLY scarce on "standard". I'm used to starting with SOMETHING in my capitol, but 4 games now with nothing, and scouting the immediately "settleable" area revealed NOTHING. I found one plot of bananas about 25 hexes away one game...

 

[markusbeutel]

Something I've noticed now that I've started around 5 games...

Since that first one I played, where things were messed up by other mods, resources are REALLY REALLY scarce on "standard". I'm used to starting with SOMETHING in my capitol, but 4 games now with nothing, and scouting the immediately "settleable" area revealed NOTHING. I found one plot of bananas about 25 hexes away one game...

Ahh, it's not so much that they are scarce - resources are now all revealed by techs, just like horses and iron. If you look at the tech pyramid you'll see that grain is revealed by agriculture, marble by masonry, and so on and so forth. To compensate for not immediately having resources, city center tiles get upgraded based on the tile you build your settlement on. There's info for this on the front cover of this thread "Cities Level Up."

 

[flymar]

Workers currently replace new improvements when automated so you'll have to keep an eye out for them. The improvements should all have graphics. What is pasagrade? An improvement or a building? Some buildings have terrain reqs that if not met the building won't appear in the build list. Likewise some improvements like the parsonage can only be built on grasslands otherwise the graphic to build them wont show up.

I've meant parsonage With no graphic. My land is always swarming with automated workers.. so I'll wait for a fix for replacing things.

 

[markusbeutel]

I've meant parsonage With no graphic. My land is always swarming with automated workers.. so I'll wait for a fix for replacing things.

A misplaced XML value was causing the parsonage graphical anomaly - will be fixed for next minor update. There's probably a 50% chance I'll get it out in the next couple of hours. If I don't, then tomorrow after work for sure.

The main changes will involve AI that you expect to be a pain to deal with, will be - while AI that you would think would be friendly or neutral, will be. In other words, Gandhi probably won't be backstabbing you anytime soon Unless people like the element of surprise when things like this happen... Either way, it's easy to mold the AI into the type of personality that feels right so feel free to offer suggestions.

In V7.1 pretty much all the AI have been neutered to an extent. This was so I could tell how accurate my numbers were in regards to their changing text-reactions based on your actions. V7.2 will have the AI act out a lot more based on their feelings towards you - although this will mainly apply to the inherently classic "evil" leaders. Time-willing I'll also switch some Specialist's around that seem like they are currently working the wrong types of buildings. This is due to earlier builds not featuring as many buildings and in order to have had an equal balance of Specialists, some were assigned to buildings that didn't fit their job. Shifting them around will be an ongoing fix over the next few updates.

Also, the Philosophical Trait is now over-powered at +50% towards Specialist Training with the boost to all Specialists across the board in effect. It will probably end up getting halved to +25%.

Finally, early versions of NiGHTS featured single-unit graphics. I'm not planning on going back to this, but I may entertain the thought of reducing the amount of units from 15 to anywhere from 3-5 like in Civ 4. I would increase their sizes to compensate. Personally I find that sometimes it gets hard to tell units apart when I have yields turned on and improvements happening everywhere. This work-around would help to give the units more of a presence and personality. It would also free up units I don't use and convert/skin them to represent unique graphics for Specialists - as currently all Specialists are just represented by standard worker units. Even taking the number down to around 10 per unit would probably work but currently I'm leaning towards 3-5. None of this is set in stone, but I would like to hear people's thoughts on the matter.

 

[flymar]

reducing the amount of units from 15 to anywhere from 3-5

Not obligatory, please. I like the way it is in vanilla and ever more with the RED mod. It gives a right sense of scale. Of course with released zoom limit.

 

[The Amorphist]

So I've put more time into this mod, and I'm liking what is happening. The idea with the worker specialists is very interesting.

A quick question; Are there any of the classic Great People still in the game, or just these specialists?

Also, besides road builders, is there a use for having a bunch of say "Gems Miners" with no Gems to mine?

 

[ouyeah]

A quick question; Are there any of the classic Great People still in the game, or just these specialists?

Yes they are still available but only with World Wonders.

Also, besides road builders, is there a use for having a bunch of say "Gems Miners" with no Gems to mine?

No. Thats why you have to put the citizens on manual control (in the city screen) so you can get only the specialists you want.

 

[markusbeutel]

I've meant parsonage With no graphic. My land is always swarming with automated workers.. so I'll wait for a fix for replacing things.

It would be a stand-alone release.

So I've put more time into this mod, and I'm liking what is happening. The idea with the worker specialists is very interesting.

A quick question; Are there any of the classic Great People still in the game, or just these specialists?

Also, besides road builders, is there a use for having a bunch of say "Gems Miners" with no Gems to mine?

Classic Great People are currently limited to World Wonders like ouyeah said. How are people finding the new training rates? Your first 10 or so Great People/Specialists should come much faster now. Future updates will add special abilities to all of the different Specialists so that even if you accidentally build one, he will still be of some use to you I may also implement a system where multiple new Specialists have the ability to upgrade their own upgrades. Think of this is almost like them building their own little settlements on your resources that will grow over time based on your efforts to improve them. A sprawling cityscape of sorts.

No. Thats why you have to put the citizens on manual control (in the city screen) so you can get only the specialists you want.

I hope to have a tweak/fix for this so the Specialist box is automatically checked to avoid currently wasteful Specialists.

 

[markusbeutel]

ModBuddy seems to be fixed again so I'll post updates both here on CivFanatics and on the in-game Mod Hub later tonight.

 

[markusbeutel]

ModBuddy corrupted my previous upload of NiGHTS a few days ago and won't let me use the name Civilization NiGHTS anymore. So now, NiGHTS will now be known as "NiGHTS of CiVILIZATION," or just NiGHTS for short. Also, what would have been V7.2 is now reverted to V1.

Version 1.0 of NiGHTS of CiVILIATION! (NiGHTS) released to the in-game Mod Hub and here in the Downloads/Modpacks section of CivFanatics.

Changes in V7.2 => 1.0

• A temporary fix for accidentally training Specialists you don't want has been included. Basically I've made the "Manual Specialist Selection" button permanently disabled. Whenever you click to train a Specialist for the first time the MSS button will permanently set itself to "ON for that specific city."

• The formula for acquiring Social Policies has been slightly tweaked so you will get more Policies in your games across all game speeds and map sizes. The number of Policy Branches required to unlock Utopia, (really need to rename that to something else), has been reverted back to 5. Policy Branches in NiGHTS all have a minimum of 6 sub-policies so the decrease in acquisition costs should balance out if I did my math correctly.

• A 20% food bonus has been added to Golden Ages as food is essentially the most important resource in NiGHTS as it leads to faster growth and a higher Stability rate. Production and Gold boosts for Golden Ages have remained the same.

• Every new City will receive a minimum 3 Hammers on it's center square. It will still level up accordingly. The boost to 3 regardless of terrain type was necessary to combat certain Civ's affinity for spawning in weak food locations. Combined with a potential low Production rate at the start of the game, getting the Stability you need to get a game moving along could prove frustrating.

• Ancient to Industrial Tech costs have been raised 10-15%. Tell me if this seems too slow or too fast. EDIT: Still too slow after a play-through of my own. Expect a further 15-20% increase coming soon.

• The AI has been adjusted to play more to their previous Civ personality. They will be more aggressive than in version 7.1, but not as ridiculous as in Vanilla Civ 5.

• Difficulty levels have been raised across the board regarding AI expansion. It will now prove a challenge to outrace them to good settlement areas. Tell me if you think they're expanding too quickly. This can be easily adjusted.

• Minor bug fixes, graphical glitches, tool-tip corrections. A recurring bug that I'm aware of is that Grain Plantations are not showing up graphically. The food/production icons show up and you get the correct amount of resources from building one, but for some reason the field/plantation itself is not showing up.

Overall, this update should make the Mod feel much more balanced - growth shouldn't be too fast or too slow, and you shouldn't be coming across as many buildings in the Classical Era from the Ancient Era that take 1 turn to build, (more like 4-6 if you've discovered all Ancient Techs on Standard Game Speed). Barring any bugs that crop up, this will be the last release where everything will be buildable. The next update will have specific Techs that make specific buildings, (not so much units), obsolete. If you've built them you will still have them and whatever benefit they provide => that specific building will just not appear in the build queue anymore. If you are currently building a building that becomes obsolete it will disappear from your queue. I'd like to implement a fix where you get credit for any production on that building carrying over to your next build, but at first - there will probably only be text reminders. The building itself that becomes obsolete will also be an older building so the amount of production lost wont be hugely significant.

 

[ouyeah]

omg gotta test it now

 

[ouyeah]

tried a game for 30 minutes, setup : India, standard size map, continents, prince difficulty, epic speed, going for cultural victory. few remarks :

1. the specialist box isnt greyed at all at begining. I built a Monument, didnt check anything and a few turns later i got a prophet.

2. You really have to move reveal Horse to tier 2 tech. I had Good Old Genghis next to me and by 2500 BC he already had 4 horse archers. If i was on higher difficulty i'd have my ass handed to me ^^

3. I found myself completly stuck with policies. I had to adopt one but i had no policy available left. No, I didnt check "skip policies" from game setup. And No, i couldnt advance one turn at all ! Either reduce Spiritual bonus (15% should be good) or up Policy cost, or both ! (i did find 2 huts with +culture inside... i could not say it would reveal a bad thing ^^

4. Please add which tech are needed to unlock policy in the policy screen tooltips. Please do the same in the tech tree itself. Please explain what is Infrastructure Allocation.

Going to try another game !

 

[markusbeutel]

tried a game for 30 minutes, setup : India, standard size map, continents, prince difficulty, epic speed, going for cultural victory. few remarks :

1. the specialist box isnt greyed at all at begining. I built a Monument, didnt check anything and a few turns later i got a prophet.

2. You really have to move reveal Horse to tier 2 tech. I had Good Old Genghis next to me and by 2500 BC he already had 4 horse archers. If i was on higher difficulty i'd have my ass handed to me ^^

3. I found myself completly stuck with policies. I had to adopt one but i had no policy available left. No, I didnt check "skip policies" from game setup. And No, i couldnt advance one turn at all ! Either reduce Spiritual bonus (15% should be good) or up Policy cost, or both ! (i did find 2 huts with +culture inside... i could not say it would reveal a bad thing ^^

4. Please add which tech are needed to unlock policy in the policy screen tooltips. Please do the same in the tech tree itself. Please explain what is Infrastructure Allocation.

Going to try another game !

The checkbox only grays itself out after you first check a specialist manually, not automatically at the staet of a game - I'll sort this out to be automatic eventually.
I'll probably move horses back like you suggested - was planning on doing this but had'nt got around to it yet. As for policies - I'm happy with the pace you acwuire them now and instead of ramping up costs I will make Feudalism and Monarchy also available at the start of the game. I've listed which policies require techs already - just in this last version the policies for despotism no longer require prereq techs. This was done to try and avoid the problem you ran into of running out of policies. The last policy for each goverent always requires one of the two techs before it but this is documented as well in the tooltips. Thanks for testing it out so quickly - I'll release a minor update tonight that unlocks Monarchy and Feudalism along with Despotism to start the game.

 

[ouyeah]

one quick question : how do you achieve cultural victory if one policy branch cancels the previous one ?

 

[markusbeutel]

one quick question : how do you achieve cultural victory if one policy branch cancels the previous one ?

They merely disable each other. If a branch gets completed at any point it counts towards a culture victory even if its disabled. How has the rate getting policies progressed in your playthroughs? Too fast? I may tweak Isabella's traits so she isn't spiritual and creative - currently she's a culture mongerer.