Mowque
Hypermodernist
curoius if anyone would like to play an alt-history start as germany with Roman empire full size? you think it might be too hard?
NitroJay's Late Start Saved Games
- Thread starter NitroJay
- Start date
To hard to make or to play?
If is to make, it is more easy, because you don't have to be historical accurate!
PS: I dare someone to make a full Russia with its extension when America spaws!
Mowque
Hypermodernist
i meant to play
Ah... ^^".
If you make All-Europe Germany it will be hard, but if you make German controling England, Scandinavia and Greece, and vassal Spain and Rome. It will be like a Cold War, USA in West, German in middle, and Russia/China in East ( you just need to make a real russia controling/vassalaging Mongolia and Siberia ).
Hard or not it will be a cool game!
If you make All-Europe Germany it will be hard, but if you make German controling England, Scandinavia and Greece, and vassal Spain and Rome. It will be like a Cold War, USA in West, German in middle, and Russia/China in East ( you just need to make a real russia controling/vassalaging Mongolia and Siberia ).
Hard or not it will be a cool game!
Mowque
Hypermodernist
oops, not make myself clear!
i meant a normal germany but a resurgent Roman Empire that never fell! (with gaul and Spain and all that) understand now?
i meant a normal germany but a resurgent Roman Empire that never fell! (with gaul and Spain and all that) understand now?
Mowque
Hypermodernist
which sounds good1 i'll try it, but it will be hard to win as Germany, rome will be huge, maybe extra barbs....
NitroJay
Warlord
Well, so much for having the Vikings done after dinner tonight! I took some medicine and crashed on the couch... I don't even remember falling asleep! I hate being sick...
Anyway, this is a lot to come back to... As for the Vikings save, I did a little more work on it... Here's my thoughts: I've decided to keep the Eastern Roman Empire as independents... My reasons being: a.) It's a start for the Vikings, not the Romans. b.) I considered making them Rome or Greek and put the captial in Constanstanople (sp?) but I decided against it, mostly because I already went through and built/changed all the cities as/to independent... c.) I know that the Eastern Romans were able to reconquer pretty much all of the Roman empire, making them Rome would make them the most powerful civ on the scoreboard at the Vikings (the player's) spawn. The difference between having them Roman or Greek and having them independent is mainly about war... As Vikings, if you would declare war on Rome to say, capture Carthage, you might be at war with them for the rest of the game... As for the independents, if you stop fighting for a few turns, peace is defaulted. The independents won't drag all of the new Europeans into their fight either, as I fear would happen with Rome or Greece.
Please be patient though. Once I finish all the civ's historical starts (and try for a few UHVs myself), I plan on using the saves I've created to build alternate history starts... I'd also like to find the time to build saves that begin at the historical heights of power... I know I want to make a Rome or Greece save at the extent of the empires... I'd like to see if I could keep it together when the Europeans spawn... Maybe another save that begins in the 1600s with England at it's colonial height... The possiblities are endless...
For now though, I'm going to go back to work on the Vikings... I knew this would be time consuming, but I had no idea...! Once the Vikings are done though, I'll use it as a basis for all the other European civs... So the saves will come out with more frequency again...
Anyway, this is a lot to come back to... As for the Vikings save, I did a little more work on it... Here's my thoughts: I've decided to keep the Eastern Roman Empire as independents... My reasons being: a.) It's a start for the Vikings, not the Romans. b.) I considered making them Rome or Greek and put the captial in Constanstanople (sp?) but I decided against it, mostly because I already went through and built/changed all the cities as/to independent... c.) I know that the Eastern Romans were able to reconquer pretty much all of the Roman empire, making them Rome would make them the most powerful civ on the scoreboard at the Vikings (the player's) spawn. The difference between having them Roman or Greek and having them independent is mainly about war... As Vikings, if you would declare war on Rome to say, capture Carthage, you might be at war with them for the rest of the game... As for the independents, if you stop fighting for a few turns, peace is defaulted. The independents won't drag all of the new Europeans into their fight either, as I fear would happen with Rome or Greece.
Please be patient though. Once I finish all the civ's historical starts (and try for a few UHVs myself), I plan on using the saves I've created to build alternate history starts... I'd also like to find the time to build saves that begin at the historical heights of power... I know I want to make a Rome or Greece save at the extent of the empires... I'd like to see if I could keep it together when the Europeans spawn... Maybe another save that begins in the 1600s with England at it's colonial height... The possiblities are endless...
For now though, I'm going to go back to work on the Vikings... I knew this would be time consuming, but I had no idea...! Once the Vikings are done though, I'll use it as a basis for all the other European civs... So the saves will come out with more frequency again...
NitroJay
Warlord
Now I've got to thinking... I could make the Eastern Roman Empire Greek... After all, they did build the Hagia Sophia, which, if I'm not mistaken, was of the Greek Orthodox... And I could skew history a bit and make "The Holy Roman Empire," Rome... But then, REALLY, I'm trying to make a world as it was in 550 AD, which is the height of Justinian's Empire... Which would mean the Holy Roman Empire has already been conquered... Which, if I made the Eastern Roman Empire Greek, would make the Greeks reign supreme...! UGH!
Sorry, I'm thinking out loud here... Let me know what the concensus is... Should the Easterm Roman Empire (i.e. The Byzantines) be Independent? OR should I do something different as mentioned above...? Please keep in mind, this is for the Viking's start... What do you think would make the Vikings game more fun/playable? You know, the other advantage to using the Independents, is speed... But I'm on the fence now... I plan on finishing this bad-ass save tomorrow afternoon. As for now, I'm heading to bed.
Sorry, I'm thinking out loud here... Let me know what the concensus is... Should the Easterm Roman Empire (i.e. The Byzantines) be Independent? OR should I do something different as mentioned above...? Please keep in mind, this is for the Viking's start... What do you think would make the Vikings game more fun/playable? You know, the other advantage to using the Independents, is speed... But I'm on the fence now... I plan on finishing this bad-ass save tomorrow afternoon. As for now, I'm heading to bed.
Mercenary82
King
I think the Greeks should represent Byzantines, and Rome should be collapsed with Italy under barb control, save for Sicily which should belong to Byzantines.
Thats a hard call to make. Italy was dominated by foreign powers pretty much from the fall of Rome until the Napoleonic Wars with a brief period where it operated as independent city states. I would be OK with France and Spain each gaining cities in Italy with Rome retaining a sole city as the capital of Christianity.
I'm down with the Greeks representing the Byzantines.They'll likely be crushed by the Arabia/Turkey combo. What are you doing with the non-European civs? Do you have Southern China as Independent? Have you phase Persia out or relocated them?
I'm down with the Greeks representing the Byzantines.They'll likely be crushed by the Arabia/Turkey combo. What are you doing with the non-European civs? Do you have Southern China as Independent? Have you phase Persia out or relocated them?
Mercenary82
King
The Vikings spawn at 550 AD, Rome was under control of the Ostrogoths at the time, who recaptured it from Belisarius in 549 AD. Ostrogoths should be represented by barbs since the Germans don't spawn until 840 AD.
American Historical start a discussion.
Perhaps the most difficult of all the scenarios, this task is made even harder by the lack of several major players in this time period - The Netherlands, Portugal, Poland, Austria, Hungary The Ottoman Empire, the SE Asian civilizations, the Native Americans and a host of other small groups that had a large impact on the power balance of the European nations. Plus, we had Persia, Inca and Aztec around when historically they were crushed.
Perhaps the most contentious viewpoint on this whole thing is the date at which we're modding the scenario to. The birth of America is observed as 1776, when the Declaration of Independence was ratified by the colonies. This is 43 years after America spawns in the game. Because of this, I decided to make the state of the world as it was in 1776 instead of 1733. Even still, the cities of New York and Savannah weren't actually under American control until well into the War of Independence. In light of this, the world's state is based around 1780. That is the year the Netherlands entered the war along side Spain and France and Britain started to lose territory both in America and the West Indies.
For those of you not up on American history, Quebec was French territory until 1760 when Britain, with the help of it's American colonies wrested control of Canada from France. This also lead to a mass migration of French-Canadians to New Orleans, which helped raise that port's influence.
Also, Britain was able to gain both French and Spanish territory in the Caribbean, effectively becoming the dominant American power after this war. I'm sorry if you disagree with this, but I feel it would be strange to have a political map pre-French and Indian war when America is fighting for it's independence from Britain. Perhaps Rhye could be persuaded to make the American start date 1776.
Anyway, back to the rest of the world. The first decision was actually the easiest. Arabia is to become the Ottoman Empire. Since the Ottomans are historically in decline until their final dissolution in the 20th century, it's difficult to know where to peg their appropriate power level and extent of empire. Opinions and links to sources would be appreciated.
Egypt has been edited to have fairly modern techs if it should rise again. This should allow them to fend off the Barbs and Ottomans.
West Africa has largely become a European slave base, so Mali has been shifted to Central and South Africa with the west being controlled entirely by the European Civs. North Africa is under barb control.
Inca and Aztec roughly correlate to Argentina and Chile and Mexico. Both are Vassals of Spain but may split once Spain's economy begins to deteriorate and it's attention is shifted to a Napoleonic France. Spain has started it's chain of Missions, and the beginnings of California have started.
France is about to enter her revolutions, and Napoleon will soon rise to power and redraw the borders of Europe. France has thus been given a large contingent of musketmen and cannons. Also, there are a few units hanging around India in order to harass English holdings.
Germany was something of a bear to Edit. As usual, it had spread into Scandinavia and a good bit of Russia. Unfortunately for Germany, I had to cripple them. I replaced All of the Scandinavia, Denmark, Poland/Lithuania, Austria/Hungary and Switzerland cities with Barbs. We'll see if Germany can reunite itself.
Rome likewise got butchered, with all but 3 cities being replaced by Barbs. Should Rome get a name change to Italy?
Speaking of Russia, they're grabbing land from the Ottomans left and right. Outside of the numerous Russo-Turk wars in this period, I am unaware of their expansion into Asia. Does anyone have sources?
England's empire is well on it's way. One difficult decision I had to make was whether to replace India with English cities or to make India a vassal of England. I went with the latter, since England often let local Maharajahs maintain local rule. Canada, India and The West Indies have all been colonized and militarized. However, England still has plenty of expansion left until the sun never sets.
China is at the height of the Qin Dynasty and Japan is in the middle of the Edo period. In a sense, both countries are of the same mind: their nation is greater than all others and Europe can stick it where the sun don't shine. Japan is restricted to its main island chain, having lost all mainland properties before the Edo Period and secluding themselves until the forceful American intervention. China on the other hand is nearing completion of the 10 Great Campaigns of Qialong and is at the peak of both it's financial and territorial power. Both are behind in techs but crawling with Medieval units and Musketmen. However, all of their cities have been given nearly a full compliment of buildings to reflect their societies' philosophically advanced state. It won't be long before they adapt the European innovations, discard their isolationist attitude and become world powers themselves.
After all this work, I'm thinking of just calling this: The American Revolution Scenario. I'm confused about what to do with Mongolia and Persia. I'm tempted to send Mongolia to America and rename it "Native Peoples". Persia I have no clue on. Any corrections or thoughts would be appreciated! I'll give people a couple days to respond before I post the first version.
Perhaps the most difficult of all the scenarios, this task is made even harder by the lack of several major players in this time period - The Netherlands, Portugal, Poland, Austria, Hungary The Ottoman Empire, the SE Asian civilizations, the Native Americans and a host of other small groups that had a large impact on the power balance of the European nations. Plus, we had Persia, Inca and Aztec around when historically they were crushed.
Perhaps the most contentious viewpoint on this whole thing is the date at which we're modding the scenario to. The birth of America is observed as 1776, when the Declaration of Independence was ratified by the colonies. This is 43 years after America spawns in the game. Because of this, I decided to make the state of the world as it was in 1776 instead of 1733. Even still, the cities of New York and Savannah weren't actually under American control until well into the War of Independence. In light of this, the world's state is based around 1780. That is the year the Netherlands entered the war along side Spain and France and Britain started to lose territory both in America and the West Indies.
For those of you not up on American history, Quebec was French territory until 1760 when Britain, with the help of it's American colonies wrested control of Canada from France. This also lead to a mass migration of French-Canadians to New Orleans, which helped raise that port's influence.
Also, Britain was able to gain both French and Spanish territory in the Caribbean, effectively becoming the dominant American power after this war. I'm sorry if you disagree with this, but I feel it would be strange to have a political map pre-French and Indian war when America is fighting for it's independence from Britain. Perhaps Rhye could be persuaded to make the American start date 1776.
Anyway, back to the rest of the world. The first decision was actually the easiest. Arabia is to become the Ottoman Empire. Since the Ottomans are historically in decline until their final dissolution in the 20th century, it's difficult to know where to peg their appropriate power level and extent of empire. Opinions and links to sources would be appreciated.
Egypt has been edited to have fairly modern techs if it should rise again. This should allow them to fend off the Barbs and Ottomans.
West Africa has largely become a European slave base, so Mali has been shifted to Central and South Africa with the west being controlled entirely by the European Civs. North Africa is under barb control.
Inca and Aztec roughly correlate to Argentina and Chile and Mexico. Both are Vassals of Spain but may split once Spain's economy begins to deteriorate and it's attention is shifted to a Napoleonic France. Spain has started it's chain of Missions, and the beginnings of California have started.
France is about to enter her revolutions, and Napoleon will soon rise to power and redraw the borders of Europe. France has thus been given a large contingent of musketmen and cannons. Also, there are a few units hanging around India in order to harass English holdings.
Germany was something of a bear to Edit. As usual, it had spread into Scandinavia and a good bit of Russia. Unfortunately for Germany, I had to cripple them. I replaced All of the Scandinavia, Denmark, Poland/Lithuania, Austria/Hungary and Switzerland cities with Barbs. We'll see if Germany can reunite itself.
Rome likewise got butchered, with all but 3 cities being replaced by Barbs. Should Rome get a name change to Italy?
Speaking of Russia, they're grabbing land from the Ottomans left and right. Outside of the numerous Russo-Turk wars in this period, I am unaware of their expansion into Asia. Does anyone have sources?
England's empire is well on it's way. One difficult decision I had to make was whether to replace India with English cities or to make India a vassal of England. I went with the latter, since England often let local Maharajahs maintain local rule. Canada, India and The West Indies have all been colonized and militarized. However, England still has plenty of expansion left until the sun never sets.
China is at the height of the Qin Dynasty and Japan is in the middle of the Edo period. In a sense, both countries are of the same mind: their nation is greater than all others and Europe can stick it where the sun don't shine. Japan is restricted to its main island chain, having lost all mainland properties before the Edo Period and secluding themselves until the forceful American intervention. China on the other hand is nearing completion of the 10 Great Campaigns of Qialong and is at the peak of both it's financial and territorial power. Both are behind in techs but crawling with Medieval units and Musketmen. However, all of their cities have been given nearly a full compliment of buildings to reflect their societies' philosophically advanced state. It won't be long before they adapt the European innovations, discard their isolationist attitude and become world powers themselves.
After all this work, I'm thinking of just calling this: The American Revolution Scenario. I'm confused about what to do with Mongolia and Persia. I'm tempted to send Mongolia to America and rename it "Native Peoples". Persia I have no clue on. Any corrections or thoughts would be appreciated! I'll give people a couple days to respond before I post the first version.
Mercenary82
King
Persia fell under Qajar dynasty in 1779, their territory was roughly modern day Iran, I think they should be in, but relatively backwards at the time.
Mali had already collapsed by this time and probably should not be in.
Mali had already collapsed by this time and probably should not be in.
Phallus
Freudian Slip
Or, use Warlords. This also means we can have Sweden as a power.
I suggest you involve Persia in the Russo-Turk conflicts as a weakened Qajar dynasty. No idea about Mongolia.
What, and have all of America settled by fortified Sioux cities? I think the scouts and occasional native/barb soldiers are a far better representation.
TrailblazingScot
I was kittenOFchaos
Strange, I can download it...
Lone Wolf
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,908
For some reason, I dislike treating Scandinavia, Poland, etc. as barbarians. (In Vanilla). I tend to think of Vanilla Germany as a nation representing not only Germany, but Scandinavia etc. also.
And the British India question. I think that you should give the English direct control over SOME Indian port cities.
And the British India question. I think that you should give the English direct control over SOME Indian port cities.
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