Noah, Atlantis, and Babylon (now with poll)

[NateDawgNY]

Originally posted by Shadylookin
As for your bible beating theory

I am a Torah observant Jew, please do not refer to my faith as bible-beating. It is too often used with reference to Christians.

As for the millions of years theory, I find it hard to swallow. You probably would say the same with regard to the flood.

Originally posted by Shadylookin
It also doesn't explain why humans aren't buried in the same level of dirt as dinos

I am no scientist, so I will not pretend to be. I do know that there is hard evidence of dinosaurs and humans living at the same time.
For example:
Even as recently as the 1970's, fisherman off the cost of China pulled up the carcass of a Plesiosaur. (I'll see if I can find a link later)

 

[Shadylookin]

I am a Torah observant Jew, please do not refer to my faith as bible-beating. It is too often used with reference to Christians.

As for the millions of years theory, I find it hard to swallow. You probably would say the same with regard to the flood.

it matters not which one you are for my argument to hold. I do not see why it's hard to swallow that the universe was not made for mankind(hell the earth was not made for man alone, think about it it's 2/3 water) I do find it rather foolish to believe that the entire world was flooded and that you could fit 2 of each animal that ever existed onto a boat. Btw what did they eat once they got off the boat? if the entire world was flooded there would be no vegitation left.

I am no scientist, so I will not pretend to be. I do know that there is hard evidence of dinosaurs and humans living at the same time.
For example:
Even as recently as the 1970's, fisherman off the cost of China pulled up the carcass of a Plesiosaur. (I'll see if I can find a link later)

http://www.gennet.org/facts/nessie.html I believe that is what your talking about. Even the overly biased writter makes no biblical claims to assume this proves that we were all made 6000 years ago for no oter reason than to be some gods puppets. The existance of this pre-historic animal assuming it's true proves nothing. I'll also point out that crocodiles and sharks supposedly are very ancient in nature.

btw what is your hard evidence

 

[10Seven]

It's my understanding that the Sphinx has been dated at approximately 15,000 years old - though the head has been dated at somewhat less.

The climate at that period - still roughly corresponding with the Iceage change - which, while not sudden as quick as current change, was still relatively quick.

The middle east and north africa would have been temperate. At this point the mediterranean was not flooded either, and is another area in which the 'flooded atlantis' could be viable.

However it does seem likely that the Atlantis myth has been changed as Noah, etc.

But archeological finds confirm humans in existence at very much more than 6000 and as far as 40,000 years ago - preserved human remains, and burials with tools at approx. 40k. The likelihood of settlement in the mediterranean is very high, as is flooding of those settlements, thus, leading to an Atlantis and Noah myth.

 

[MCdread]

Myths about a great flooding in the past ocur in almost every ancient civilization, so I find it only natural that myths such as those of Atlantis and Noah's Ark may have been based in older stories about catastrophes that happened thousands of years ago.
Some people may think that it is impossible that such old stories can be kept after all these centuries and millenia actually, but they can. In the Vedas, there is also a mention to old natural events, particulary there is a mention to a great river, larger than the Indo and the Ganges, and about how that river ceased to exist. It was only recently and using satellite technology that geologists found that there actually existed such a river in India and that it was indeed larger than the Indo and the Ganges. The river stopped to flow due to climate changes that ocurred thousands of years before there is recorded history in the area...

 

[NateDawgNY]

Let's see what I can dig up.

Proof that men and Dinosaurs lived at the same time:
Cave Drawings
Humans and Dinosaurs Living Together
Recent Events
Some good pictures

Okay, that should do it for now. Some of those sites may present a biased viewpoint, but some of those pictures are great, so I couldn't resist.

 

[MSTK]

I can't push the "propaganda" out of my head, but I was always taught that the most advanced mammal that the time of the dinosaurs were large rodents.

 

[North King]

Let's see what I can dig up.

Proof that men and Dinosaurs lived at the same time:
Cave Drawings
Humans and Dinosaurs Living Together
Recent Events
Some good pictures

Okay, that should do it for now. Some of those sites may present a biased viewpoint, but some of those pictures are great, so I couldn't resist.

Those sites are such utter fakes, they are laughable. Many of those photos are quite obviously fakes or of regular animals that had decayed. Most of the pottery could easily be explained as fake, exaggerated, depicting some animal that is real, or just a human attempt to represent the bones they found as fossils. It is not close to "proof".

 

[Shadylookin]

Let's see what I can dig up.

Proof that men and Dinosaurs lived at the same time:
Cave Drawings
Humans and Dinosaurs Living Together
Recent Events
Some good pictures

Okay, that should do it for now. Some of those sites may present a biased viewpoint, but some of those pictures are great, so I couldn't resist.

your using an angelfire site as your source, I'd rather not dignify it with a response. Though since I have nothing else to do I will anyway. The very first picture looks like slight color difference in the rock and looks nothing like a man or a dinosaur. The next one looks like a guy that's being raped by a bear wearing an indian headdress while trying to stab a creature of some sort. The next ones look like triceratops(this is assuming the guy didn't just use photoshop) but I'm not going to trust a picture to tell me we lived with dinosaurs because pictures can be deceiving(like if I believed the pictures of jesus I would think he was a white anglo saxon with long hippy hair, and always had a halo above it because he was a god) they could have been a god that they worshiped.

your second source only has one picture that looks like it has a dinosuar(once again though I'm skeptical about a place that calls its self world mysteries) it also looks like 2 men in spacesuits and a monkey that is also in a cool monkey spacesuit are floating above it the one on the bottom left looks like a guy riding a horse with a long head raging into battle. the next one looks like a horribly drawn map(though I will give them credit since when they were made the europeans probably didn't even know about the new world yet) The next one looks like a penguine giving birth and a guy vomiting into it.

I'm not even going to bother with a site that's title is "Dragons are NOT extinct" and has a big fake dragon on the left. I don't know whether the lock ness monsters exist or not, but basing your arugment off of it lowers your credibility. Though once again I retort that there are many creatures that are very similar to what they were millions of years ago because they quite simply are at the top of their game(sharks and crocs being 2 examples)

oh a lovely site sponsored by the bible literalists(once again assuming there no fake or photoshoped)

This dinosaur footprint in cretaceous limestone on the banks of the Paluxy River is approximately 30 cm (one foot) across, and located with similar tracks. Early excavations in this area revealed human footprints inside the dinosaur tracks leading to rumors that the human prints had claws -- later excavations uncovered human footprints up to 64 cm long (25 inches) next to the dinosaur prints -- this discounted the doubters. A human handprint was also found.

on the picture beside this quote all I see is a print of something that looked like it had 3 toes. I don't see any other prints in it, but if there were I don't see how that is evidence that we lived with it. Think about it if there is a foot print on the surface even if it's a thousand(even millions) years old I could still put my foot print in it. The next pic once again assuming it's not a hoax looks like a large foot print based on what they said

the archeologist who coordinated the excavations, these strata were laid down during the first few days of Noah's flood when water levels were low enough to allow daily tidal changes to form layers of mud so fleeing creatures could seek higher ground -- the upper strata showed no prints.

it looks like they have an agenda to push, unfortunately for them those of us who put no trust in the book require a bit more evidence than biblical hearsay. It does look like a big footprint nothing more could have been from an animal with a foot structure that looks like that.
the rock with a piece of wood in it doesn't look like an efficient hammer, it looks about 3ft and if the rock is iron it would be heavy as hell.

It is believed that before the flood our atmosphere was compressed to approximately twice its current density, and no ultraviolet radiation.

that would be fairly heavy. no UV rays that's unlikely it would mean we didn't have any sun


Anymore credible sources like a site that ends with .edu or from a credible news source like the bbc cnn hell I'd even take fox.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Note to self: Next time you make a thread about lost civilizations, throw in a few lines about Unicorns and Faeries so it doesnt get moved to the history forum.

 

[NateDawgNY]

I did present those sites with a disclaimer.

Some of those sites may present a biased viewpoint

Originally posted by Shadylookin
I'm not even going to bother with a site that's title is "Dragons are NOT extinct" and has a big fake dragon on the left. I don't know whether the lock ness monsters exist or not, but basing your arugment off of it lowers your credibility

I should have known better than to post such a site here.... I posted it because I thought some of the pictures were slightly thought provoking.

the rock with a piece of wood in it doesn't look like an efficient hammer

Looks efficient enough to me. Of course it's not all in one piece either.

When it comes down to it, all I was merely trying to point out was that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time.

 

[MSTK]

Which is false.

 

[Alvaro da Luna]

I heard somewhere the theory of the Great Flood as emerging from changes within the Black Sea.

 

[classical_hero]

Which is false.

Prove your statement.

 

[HamaticBabylon]

Noah in the Quran is mentioned as a prophet who was saved from the evil people of his time he preached to them for 1000 years and yet no one listened to him. So the creator sent down rains and some more rains for 6 months and the whole world was covered with water. This started the ice age, form 2,000,000B.C! The last ice age 13,000 years ago

 

[test_specimen]

I'm quite sure that the flood story in the bible relates to an actual event. But just because other sources report floods, it does not mean they refer to the same one. Extreme floods happen every several decades, probably more often when there is a climate change. I doubt that people could have realised a global event, but to them it was probably true, that their world was completely covered with water. Also since they could not explain why floods happen it was attributed to god and seen as a punishment.

I'm not sure about Atlantis, but it could also mean the Minoic culture. If I'm not mixing it up, no one really knows why it vanished (theory is invasion of the later Greeks).