Nobels for Violence

[beetle]

War is going well. No casualties.

• T225
  • Nebuchadnezzar builds Cristo Redentor
  • sell Shaka OB for Iron
  • Sidon at 85% coup chance and vote next turn, so I risk that (success); gift Sidon our novice Pike for 10 more influence
  • WF looking good, but cities do not have anything lined up for overflow, so I set that up
• T226
  • Spies win their elections; move Veteran Spy from Sidon to Jerusalem; reassign novice as Diplomat to Attila’s Court
• T227
  • do not forgive Shaka for bullying Yerevan
  • Babylon liberate Manila
  • We easily win WF
  • Kremlin completes
  • unlock Scholasticism, for 300 more beakers per turn
  • unlock Cultural Diplomacy, for 16 more happy per turn
  • move veteran spy to Manilla
  • GS born, which I do not plant since we are entering Atomic Era soon
  • Oops, Vijayanagara getting some heat; sending in the Calvary, which I had pulled back to sit on Archeology sites
• T228
  • Faith purchase Research lab in Turku
  • Manila falls again; move spy back to Jerusalem
  • Stockholm starts on Oxford
• T229
  • Capture and puppet Kar-Tukulti-Ninurta
  • Capture and puppet Assur (SoZ)
• T230
  • Radar researched, enter Atomic Age
  • forgive Pacal for stealing a tech
  • GS bulb for Atomic Theory
  • finally remember to look for and cancel pointless PoP
  • move new spy as diplomat to Ulundi
  • turn off faith automatic purchase
• T231
  • Gandhi denounces us
  • capture and raze Qatna
• T232
  • Ahmad denounces us
  • trade Nebuchadnezzar Spices for his Cocoa
  • 25 gpt to have Attila vote against Autocracy as WI
  • move diplomat to Seoul
  • Oxford halts while Qatna burns
• T232
  • Rocketry researched, start on Refrigeration
  • two CS asking for Uranium, so I buy one from Nebuchadnezzar
• T233
  • Nebuchadnezzar builds Eiffel Tower
  • capture and puppet Kanesh
• T235 Interstitial
  • Attila builds Prora
  • Babylon liberates Manila again
  • Qatna finishes being razed, so that re-unlocks some options for NW
  • Refrigeration research, Combustion on deck, but maybe Satellites makes more sense?

@fiddlesticks is up

• 1K faith in the bank
• income is good, but I upgraded a unit every turn, so little savings
• Oxford is a third done in Stockholm
• In a few turns you have the opportunity to buy WC votes
• GW waiting to be bulbed as GA comes to an end
• DOW bribe available
• GS Bulb not available

 

[fiddlesticks]

T236:

• Adopt Hero of the People - +25% great people.
• Capture Carchemish - Puppet
• Bulb GW - adopt Party Leadership Tier 2 in Order.
• Bought Great Prophet in Palenque
• Successful coup in Jerusalem - move spy to Bogota
• Start Nuclear Fission

T237:

• No to Korea War with Shaka/Attila
• Building some Rocket Artillery, moving troops to attack Morocco next

T238

• Zulu coup in Sidon fails
• Shaka and Attila declare war on Sejong
• Capture Sareisa - raze
• Capture Dur-Sharrukin - puppet
• Convert Pataliputra
• Great Scientist born - plant near Stockholm
• Aluminum to Sejong 210g

T239

• Capture Imgur-Enlil - puppet
• Convert Birka (did you know on a 5 charge prophet you can still plant after using the 5th charge?)
  
• Capture Halab and Haran - End of Assurbanipal
• Start Apollo program in Helsinki (our #1 production city)

T240

• Morocco adopts Freedom
• Convert Nimrud
• Adopt Spaceflight Pioneers - plant Great Scientist. Great Engineer fulfills a bunch of quests
  
• Finish Nuclear Fission, start Combustion (lol)
• Stockholm back to Tengriism
• Moving troops

T241

• Bought a Great Prophet in Palenque
• Convert Nineveh
• Moving/Healing Troops

T242

• Start a Golden Age with a Great Artist
• Great Scientist from M'Banza-Kongo
• Convert Casablanca

T243

• Tengriism World Religion Passes
• Autocracy Fails
• Propose Order as World Ideology
• Combustion done - start Combined Arms

T244

• Zulu denounce us
• Re-friend Sejong
• Copper for 207g/1gpt
• Finish Oxford - take Satellites
• DoW Gandhi
• DoW Ahmad
• Convert Lund

Interim

• Attila denounces us
• Finish Combined Arms
• Lose an Infantry (Morocco)

 

[fiddlesticks]

@raider980 is up

GS bulb available
DoW bribe available
-FYI I forgot to get the navy into the action over on the eastern front.
-I was sending the Great Scientist back to Stockholm but he’s available to bulb if you prefer. I had forgotten we entered a new era.

 

[beetle]

Looking very good @fiddlesticks!

 

[raider980]

I’ve played a couple turns. Taken Mumbai. But we’re going to have happiness issues if we take more cities. I started Neuschwanstein but it won’t be ready for 13 turns. Might have to delay more city caps.

I can’t say I’ve ever considered taking Party Leadership. If it had +1 happiness too, now that would make it a really good tenet.

Edit. Also got an SP and took one in Rationalism, figured we would want to close it out.

 

[vadalaz]

For happiness we can either start razing cities we don't need, or just gift them to Attila and have him raze them for us. I believe he's coded to raze every city he captures/gets through deals as long as he has more than 3 cities of his own. Keep in mind that Kanesh is a holy city and cannot be razed.

Each new city increases tech costs by 2% and we have roughly 3k beakers, so from a science perspective a city is worth keeping if you can micro it to make >60 bpt. This isn't much: 11-pop Vijaya makes >90 bpt if it works all specialists and builds Research. It'd be nice to fill the entire continent with Swedish colors, but we didn't really plan for this, so I think we should just keep the good cities, those with higher pop and some specialist buildings and/or jungle tiles.

Maybe for our next game we should consider playing with a mod that fixes the city center yield bug, if there is such a mod out there. Linkoping and Tangier are missing out on 8 food, 3 and 4 production, 2 gold, 1 sci and 1 culture from terrain.

 

[raider980]

What is the city center yield bug? Does it not count the city tile yields even though it shows them on the map?

T245.

• Attack Moroccan troops.
• Lund starts National Epic. Vijay starts Arch. Link starts CS. Convert Turku.
• Pillage Indian TR. Take Mumbai.

Interim. Shaka doesn't like our proposal. Nebby denounces us, completes Apollo, enters Information Era.

T246.

• Bulb GS, discover Penicillin.
• Espoo finishes PS246a, starts Neuschwanstein. Nimrud finishes Fighter, starts Hydro Plant. Delhi finishes PS246b, starts Research Lab. Purchase Research Lab with faith in Linkopin.
• Caravan to Almaty for quest.
• Destroy Indian GMu.

T247. Discover Ecology. Almaty gives us a Rocket Launcher, thanks. Sigtuna finishes Bomber, starts Zoo. SP: Soverignty.

Interim. Nebby calls our army weak, really Nebster?

T248.

• GMu is born.
• Stockholm finishes RL, Research Lab or Rocket Launcher, I forget; starts Hubble. Link finishes CS, starts another.
• Attack Madurai to help one of our CS allies take it.
• Buy Sejong's vote for Order for WI.
• Start razing Harran.

Interim. Vatican City captures Madurai and sets it ablaze.

T249.

• Nebby is Hostile, he won't trade Luxes except for some ridiculous amount. He might deserve a few nukes even if he is not about to beat us.
• Helsinki builds Apollo, starts Research Lab. Lund National Epic is interrupted by razing Hurran, starts Solar Plant. Casablanca finishes something, starts Zoo. Vijay finishes Arch, starts Zoo.
• Lol one hit from a RL on Varninasi takes it almost to zero health.
• Gift Harran to Atilla. Start razing Halab.
• Conquer Rabat, keeps some nice buildings.

Summary. Took two cities and a happiness hit. Two worthless cities are razing.

• Maybe we can just attack Fes and help Samarkand take it.
• We're down to 5 happiness.
• GW available to do something with.
• GS bulb not available. DoW bribe is available.

 

[vadalaz]

What is the city center yield bug? Does it not count the city tile yields even though it shows them on the map?

That's exactly what happens with cities gained by peace deals

T250:
- Burned Writer, took Skyscrapers
- Started Manhattan Project in Palenque
- Bribed Attila to DoW everyone except Shaka
- Sold him 4 useless cities in the deal, got a lux and 100 gpt for it
- Great General to Wellington

T251:
- Zulu successful coup in Prague, but their coup in Zurich fails
- Captured Marrakech, very nice city
- RIP Gandhi. Captured Calcutta and Agra, gifted to Attila
- We have 54 votes in Congress, others have 36 combined so we don't need diplomats and I send spies to CSs
- DoW Pacal

T252:
- Attila buys two of our allies, Zurich and Malacca
- I buy Malacca back this turn
- I notice that Kyzyl has apparently captured an Assyrian city and kept it, and it has Crabs! Gift 200 to improve the Crabs
- Converted Linkoping

T253:
- One gazillion WLTKDs thanks to Crabs, a bit too late for that though
- Great General to Ur

T254:
- Captured Fes, puppet. RIP Ahmad
- Re-allied Zurich

T255:
- Captured Chichen Itza, gifted to Attila

T256:
- We fail to rig elections in Zurich, someone else got it

T257:
- Robotics done

T258:
- Lhasa captures Uxmal
- Manhattan done

T259:
- Captured Copan and Tikal, to Attila's incinerator they go
- Neb builds Pentagon

Spoiler Screen :

@beetle up. Notes:

- Was moving units to Babylon but it looks like we don't really need to do that, and we'll win before we can get a carrier with nukes there anyway
- Space factories up in Palenque and Uppsala, three more go up next turn and we have an engineer for the final part
- I believe we agreed that Hubble = 1 extra bulb, yes? In that case, a bulb will be available next turn. Rationalism finisher will give us a free tech as well
- Bribe not available

 

[vadalaz]

How about Portugal Honor-Commerce-Autocracy for the next game?

 

[raider980]

How about Portugal Honor-Commerce-Autocracy for the next game?

That sounds good to me. I have barely played Portugal and they're usually considered one of the mediocre Civs. On a map of Europe? Or random map, Continents, Pangea, Fractal.

Regarding rules, I am in favor of the most restrictive rules you all can abide.

 

[fiddlesticks]

Okay by me. Aztecs would be more fun for that social policy path, but I’m fine with Maria.

 

[beetle]

Thank you for your patience with my round of turns.

Portugal Honor-Commerce-Autocracy is compelling. I would vote we hand pick our opponents to avoid ancient/classic civs (just for the RP value). A TSL map would also be a preference of mine.

I also favor more restrictive rules. The only thing that really bugged me from our first “no bees” game was planting so many GS. I mostly liked not exploiting GS bulbs. I liked the nerf to the Rationalism tree. But I found myself annoyed by having to plant like 6/7 GS, and I think that might have been complicated by not having anything productive to do with extra faith (i.e., no reason to spend 2500 faith on a couple more GS, but nothing else to spend faith on either).

My annoyance was with the game mechanics, not with giving ourselves a handicap. And then there is the insult of getting Hubble and planting two late game GS.

I found the one-GS-bulb-per-era-but-only-for-a-tech-an-AI-knows to be a decent compromise.

If we are not ever going to bulb GS, I think maybe we should have a conversation about how not to spawn so many of them.

 

[vadalaz]

Okay by me. Aztecs would be more fun for that social policy path, but I’m fine with Maria.

I haven't played any Portugal HCA games before, but I think the potential for a fun game is there:

- cheaper upgrades from Trireme to Nau to Ironclad, and Portugal wants a lot of those
- Discipline works for melee ships
- extra XP on Naus from selling goods, plus faster Barracks line of buildings w/ Honor
- with Coastal Raider III, Discipline, SoZ and a GAdm you get Ironclads with +138% combat strength vs cities, so they should hit cities as hard as Artillery
- Mercantilism + BB + Mobilization makes it profitable to simply buy Naus

And Gunboat Diplomacy could be fun with a million Ironclads roaming the seas. Shame it's a tier 3 tenet.

@beetle I agree with everything you said. I'm fine with either the current bulb rule or banning bulbs and managing the GSEM point pool more carefully so that we get more Engineers and perhaps even Merchants. For example we could have a city designated as our main trade route hub and only work gold specialists there, build EIC, prioritize gold tiles and improvements and let it spawn a Merchant or two.

If we ban bulbs, I think Hubble should still be an exception to this rule.

So here's a suggestion:

• No GS bulbs, except one bulb from Hubble.
• No GMu concerts.
• No bribes.
• No white peace bug abuse:
  • Asking AIs for peace allowed only after first expo is planted.
  • Player may not delete away from on our side of a peace deal.
• No worker stealing from CSs.
• Internal food trade routes allowed only if the origin city has higher population than destination city at the time of sending the trade route.
  
• No one-way Open Border deals.
• No selling of single strategic resources for 2 gpt.
• Total gold from peace deals and selling cities must not exceed 100 gpt (or the lump sum equivalent) at any point of the game.

As for the map, should we just revisit Mediterranean Region from Extended Europe?

Another idea I had for a game was Songhai with Honor and Piety mix. This might sound like a terrible opener, but on a map like Tilted Axis with lots of barb camps Songhai can get lots of gold from the UA, and Piety works well for civs with no-maintenance Temples. One cool thing you can do is skip monuments and go Shrine - Mud Pyramid Mosque - whatever.

 

[fiddlesticks]

I'm happy with Portugal. Let's stick with that.

 

[raider980]

So here's a suggestion:

• No GS bulbs, except one bulb from Hubble.
• No GMu concerts.
• No bribes.
• No white peace bug abuse:
  • Asking AIs for peace allowed only after first expo is planted.
  • Player may not delete away from on our side of a peace deal.
• No worker stealing from CSs.
• Internal food trade routes allowed only if the origin city has higher population than destination city at the time of sending the trade route.
  
• No one-way Open Border deals.
• No selling of single strategic resources for 2 gpt.
• Total gold from peace deals and selling cities must not exceed 100 gpt (or the lump sum equivalent) at any point of the game.

As for the map, should we just revisit Mediterranean Region from Extended Europe?

I like those rules. Except I'm still not clear about the 100gpt from peace deals and selling cities. 100gpt sounds like a lot. Does that mean we can have two simultaneous peace deals, one for 40gpt and one for 60gpt, but if they are both active then we can't sell any cities until one of them is up? Is that figure listed anywhere separate from the one about total gpt from AI that we have been using?

I like the Mediterranean map. Spain may be a problem though since we'll be shoved off to the edge of the map. And is the land good for Portugal's uniques? I have to admit I don't fully grasp their uniques. If we were near the Levant on that map we'd be set. And is this the map without much coal? I thought I remember one of our games coal being a problem. On the positive, there is lots of guaranteed coastal cities and CS to take advantage of.

 

[vadalaz]

Except I'm still not clear about the 100gpt from peace deals and selling cities. 100gpt sounds like a lot. Does that mean we can have two simultaneous peace deals, one for 40gpt and one for 60gpt, but if they are both active then we can't sell any cities until one of them is up? Is that figure listed anywhere separate from the one about total gpt from AI that we have been using?

Yeah, that's what I had in mind. It's not listed anywhere so we'd have to keep track of it. It's not a great solution.

How about removing the limit, but only allowing to take gold or cities in peace deals from neighboring civs? This prevents siphoning gold from faraway AIs that have no reason to feel threatened by the war.

I like the Mediterranean map. Spain may be a problem though since we'll be shoved off to the edge of the map. And is the land good for Portugal's uniques? I have to admit I don't fully grasp their uniques. If we were near the Levant on that map we'd be set. And is this the map without much coal? I thought I remember one of our games coal being a problem. On the positive, there is lots of guaranteed coastal cities and CS to take advantage of.

Spain will be a problem. I think Portugal was the first civ to get eliminated last time we played that map. There is some coal nearby which we'll have to fight for, but to get a truly massive Ironclad fleet we'd need Autocracy's double strategics.

 

[Grendeldef]

What happened to this & forthcoming(?) Portugal game? Peasants want entertainment. I get that it's tempting to skip the last few turns when the game is practically won but I think that skipping the endgame before starting is a bit of a stretch even if the AI still is what it is.

 

[vadalaz]

What happened to this & forthcoming(?) Portugal game?

Not sure. I just assumed people were either too busy or lost interest. I went ahead and finished this game with a T271 science victory. As for the sub-goals:

- ally all CSs: done
- clear the continent: done, but then Shaka settled a city and I didn't manage to capture it fast enough
- convert the home continent to our religion: nope

Pretty uneventful final 11 turns. Eliminated Pacal. Went unhappy for a couple of turns, but then WI: Order was passed and happiness soared. Shaka flipped to Order after the vote. DoWed him when he planted a city on our continent, captured two settlers but not the city.



GGs and thanks for playing everyone. I think I'm done with SGs for now. I enjoyed all of them, but currently I'd rather spectate than play.

 

[Grendeldef]

It happens but it was fun while it lasted.

I haven't been able to roll a single playable map in a month so it's been half an hour of rolling & back to PoE and with the new league starting on Thursday I think even my rolling times will be halved.

 

[beetle]

Not sure. I just assumed people were either too busy or lost interest. I went ahead and finished this game with a T271 science victory.

Thanks for taking us out!

GGs and thanks for playing everyone. I think I'm done with SGs for now. I enjoyed all of them, but currently I'd rather spectate than play.

I feel the same.

I have volunteered to help with Civ5 GotM, so that should keep me busy!