Nobles' Club 142: Hatshepsut of Egypt

[elitetroops]

@Hurricane Jane:

Spoiler :

Congrats on an easy noble win! Not much is needed and you'll find the next few higher levels just as easy.

If you play for learning purposes, then the one thing I'd recommend you to look into next is worker management and tile improvements. If you learn how to improve your lands, you will never again struggle to keep up with the AI in tech on noble.

First of all, get more workers early! 1,5 workers/city is an often quoted amount which might not always be optimal, but it's a good target to aim for. If you are working unimproved tiles, then you have too few workers. If you have overlap between cities, you can aim to immediately borrow some food from the old city with the new one (in your 1000BC pics Heliopolis is working unimproved grassland while it could work corn, but corn is instead worked by Thebes which doesn't need it because it's at happy cap). If there is no old improvements ready, then you should have a worker ready to improve the new city immediately when you settle it. If you don't, then don't settle the city yet.

You cheer for a lot of river tiles in capital, but you don't use them??? In 800AD that capital should be working 8 more riverside grassland towns. With library, academy and bureaucracy added, this alone would probably double your research rate.

That academy in Giza is a huge waste of a GS. If all those floodplains were cottaged instead of farmed (like they very often should be if you found the city early), then it could perhaps make sense, but very often an academy is only worth it in your cottaged bureau capital.

It also sounds like you're researching everything yourself? Tech trading is your friend. Religious techs, monarchy, iron working, feud, machinery, engineering... that stuff you can usually let the AI research for you unless you have some specific need to get it early. Okay, not sure about machinery and engineering on noble as the AI techs so slow, but if they have it or are about to get it then don't waste time on that. You already mentioned the lib race, so then get going and head for lib! If you want to lib steel, then you can grab paper, edu, philo and gunpowder before worrying about machinery. Usually someone will have machinery and engineering for trade then when it's time to research chemistry. If they don't, then you have to tech them yourself, but you laugh even harder when you get your cannons as everybody else is so extremely backwards.

 

[ThatOne]

FWIW, Quick is harder than Normal and the game is generally balanced around Normal speed, so you might want to reconsider your game speed if you are struggling to beat Noble difficulty.

Is true, but honestly I find quick much more fun. Marathon you can knock out ai with start war many times but that's really not a challenge. Slower game speeds can be a crutch, you can knock out many more games in a shorter period of time at quick and thus hopefully learn more.

 

[tijup]

Replayed it.

Prince, Marathon, NRE, NH.

1362, Domination win.

Spoiler :

This time, I REXed a bit more aggressively, focusing more on production cities than commerce.
SIPed, and cottaged most of the capital, I built two more cities to hold the horse and the gold. The gold city was my main production site, the horse one a slightly slower one.

Isabella was kind enough to found two religions, and I waited until she built a shrine to attack her with WC and axemen.She went down in a few turns. I started piling cats, WC, axemen and swordsmen to go after Elizabeth, and DoW her somewhere in the AD (which was too late IMHO). Hammurabi has researched Feudalism, and exchanged it with Eli as soon as I dowed her. After loosing one third of my stack of swordsmen and half my cats on a single city, I took peace for a while. That war lasted for maybe two dozens of turns, she lost 4 cities, and was quite crippled, but she kept London.

Research wise, I teched hunting and AH, then mining, BW, pottery, writing. I teched next prerequiste for The Oracle, which i choped in Madrid (i took MC). I then went after currency via mathematics to help the REXing.
The AIs were (as all prince games) very slow to tech, and Alphabet came very late (way past 1000bc IIRC), self tech IW, went to literature (for the Great Lib).
I can't remember the tech path after that, I bulbed education, researched liberalism very early the in the AD, and delayed until I was able to get Steel. I libed Steel, somewhere close to 950AD.

After that, the game was over.
Updated a few cats to canons, a few swordmen to macemen, while I was still building fresh troops. DoWed once again on Eli in 1100AD, obliterated her, and DoWed Hammurabi as soon as Eli was down.
I revolted during the war to Free Speech, and stoped research to focus on culture.
Built a few useless cities in barren ground, and waited to reach the domination limit (about a dozens turns after Hammurabi went down.)

I sent some caravels very late (around 1200AD) to find the other continent, which was way backward in tech. I think that's the first time we get a map were we could win a domination without leaving our continent

 

[Nials]

Is true, but honestly I find quick much more fun. Marathon you can knock out ai with start war many times but that's really not a challenge. Slower game speeds can be a crutch, you can knock out many more games in a shorter period of time at quick and thus hopefully learn more.

Sure! I was just ponting out that Quick is seldomly played and really makes warring a fair bit harder, so if you were having trouble, that could be a contributing factor.

In the end it's a game that we play to have fun, so roll with whatever is more fun for you

 

[JSS]

Spoiler :

I think that's the first time we get a map were we could win a domination without leaving our continent

Spoiler :

Funnily, there was a Hatshepsut NC game way back, maybe 2 years ago, where domination by conquering just our continent was possible. The start had 4 wet corns and the AIs on our continent were Hannibal, Saladin, Wang and maybe someone else (Willem?).

 

[Hurricane Jane]

@Hurricane Jane:

Spoiler :

Congrats on an easy noble win! Not much is needed and you'll find the next few higher levels just as easy.

If you play for learning purposes, then the one thing I'd recommend you to look into next is worker management and tile improvements. If you learn how to improve your lands, you will never again struggle to keep up with the AI in tech on noble.

First of all, get more workers early! 1,5 workers/city is an often quoted amount which might not always be optimal, but it's a good target to aim for. If you are working unimproved tiles, then you have too few workers. If you have overlap between cities, you can aim to immediately borrow some food from the old city with the new one (in your 1000BC pics Heliopolis is working unimproved grassland while it could work corn, but corn is instead worked by Thebes which doesn't need it because it's at happy cap). If there is no old improvements ready, then you should have a worker ready to improve the new city immediately when you settle it. If you don't, then don't settle the city yet.

You cheer for a lot of river tiles in capital, but you don't use them??? In 800AD that capital should be working 8 more riverside grassland towns. With library, academy and bureaucracy added, this alone would probably double your research rate.

That academy in Giza is a huge waste of a GS. If all those floodplains were cottaged instead of farmed (like they very often should be if you found the city early), then it could perhaps make sense, but very often an academy is only worth it in your cottaged bureau capital.

It also sounds like you're researching everything yourself? Tech trading is your friend. Religious techs, monarchy, iron working, feud, machinery, engineering... that stuff you can usually let the AI research for you unless you have some specific need to get it early. Okay, not sure about machinery and engineering on noble as the AI techs so slow, but if they have it or are about to get it then don't waste time on that. You already mentioned the lib race, so then get going and head for lib! If you want to lib steel, then you can grab paper, edu, philo and gunpowder before worrying about machinery. Usually someone will have machinery and engineering for trade then when it's time to research chemistry. If they don't, then you have to tech them yourself, but you laugh even harder when you get your cannons as everybody else is so extremely backwards.

Spoiler :

You're right about worker management, but I want to settle as much fruitful land as possible before the AI does. Maybe I could have built some more workers after I went and blocked Victoria out of my terrain?

For tech trading, I do like that, especially rel techs and Monarchy/Feudalism. I often research IW myself, though maybe it isn't as necessary as I feel it would be. My favourite techs after having the imminent Bronze, Sailing on watery maps and AH/Writing are probably Maths, Aesthetics and Currency. Obviously CoL for CS in a somewhat smaller empire and Construction for both Cats and raising happy cap.
The reason my trade was blocked was that I went into Buddhism too early. My Hindu neighbours didn't like that, and I forgot.. somewhat. So I couldn't really make use of tech trading.

The Bureau/Academy question is still clinging to me. I always thought an Academy was at it's best in a science specialist city, but that seems to be different. Bureaucracy is obviously one of the best civics, but was it good enough for this pretty large empire? I was somewhat afraid of the upkeep costs.

Well, at least I've won, by the late year of 1900 AD (but that is also the Quick penalty, if I would have played Epic it could well have been 1700 AD) And my friend Hammurabi had the disgusting Statue of Zeus, ruining my economy at least a bit. Screens and story are coming up tonight

Quick/Noble/1900 AD/Domination

Spoiler :

So, turn 100 is over and my First GA is over as well. Carrying on with the plan to beeline Steel. Teched Philosophy on the way to LB Chemistry with GS. Teched into steel at 130. Settled for Iron on the way. Went for Nationalism and Democracy to draft units quicker (CS -> Paper -> Edu (bulb) -> Lib (Nat free) -> PP -> Constitution -> Democracy. I won the Lib race without even putting any commitment in it. In the end I could LB PP as well.

When I reached Constitution, I felt drafting Cannons was the way to go by now. First by whipping, then after turn 150 another whip, and then just by economy standards. Just when I wanted to start the war with Vicky she had a GA. Just wait some longer, get the SoL for more specialists and Banking for Merc and even more specialists.

Declared war on 162 whilst researching Economics for another GA. But Victora teched it earlier, so I had to settle with going for Rifling in a whole couple of turns. Went for Physics -> Artillery afterwards while still getting loads of money to upgrade everything to artillery right away. Made peace with Vicky with just one city to go to go after Hammurabi. He had some Cuirassiers though, so had to go through to Artillery First to take him on properly. Science meter to zero afterwards and upgrade everything I have. Not having any problems except for hating SoZ so I want to take Babylon quickly. Just flanked Hammurabi in from the northeast and southeast and took all of his cities. Then it was just waiting for the borders to pop.

 

[dalamb]

4000-1350 BC

More than a month later, and I'm still trying to finish this game.

Spoiler :

Took out Victoria with rather more difficulty than Isabella (no surprise) but didn't quite crash my economy because I had currency and could build wealth once I had enough troops. Hammy has copper-based units and higher cultural defence, so I'll need to wait for a better army to take him on -- not to mention a better economy, since my slider is at 20% at +23 gpt (0 gpt if I go to 30%, but I'm at 37 and couldn't afford to build even one more unit at that rate). I just got construction and could start building catapults -- I can afford a few of them at +23 gpt -- but would much rather wait a while. Civil Service in 12 turns, so I'll have macemen to go with the cats. Forbidden Palace in York in 17 turns, which should help a bunch (playing with the worldbuilder shows I'd get to 30%/+13gpt if I had it right now). 3gpt comes from this trade, so will vanish with the war:

Worryingly, Hammy has overcome me in power:

but I'm marginally ahead in techs:

Spoiler techs :

That won't last at the current slider. He'll have feudalism in 18 turns, and I can't attack him soon enough, so will be facing longbows with maces and cats. He's Pleased; does he backstab at Pleased like a few others do?


I'm tempted to wait for cuirs, but need macemen anyway just to increase my power level. Not sure when I'll start another session; this one was on Mar 24, more than a month since the first session.

 

[hankinsohl]

Emperor, no huts/events, standard speed, 1625AD Domination

Spoiler :

Two words: War Chariot

Pretty much did as many other posters here. SIP, researched AH early, found horses nearby with Isabella on my doorstep. My second city grabbed the horses in its inner cross and I soon had about 10 war chariots up against Isabella's very weakly defended 3-city empire. About 6 turns later I was at size 5.

I didn't know where the other 2 civs were on my continent and I was loath to ruin what seemed to be an unassailable position. So I simply went into slow recovery, slow rex mode and didn't carry the war further until quite some time later. I got Alphabet in, made some key trades and started exploring the continent. I found that I had huge room to expand to the southwest. Therefore I walled off the southwestern portion of the continent, grabbing all the nice gem spots to the north while doing so.

More slow rexing to followed; I was able to maintain decent tech pace by grabbing gold sites with my expansion. Since I found marble, I went up the music line, built Parthenon and TGL, and used the Great Artist from Music for a golden age. Once CS was in, I started aggressively rexing, settling the entire southwestern continent - I was lazy with city placement and could have had more cities - eventually reaching a 20-city empire.

I was first to Nationalism and built the TM. Once that was in I went Pacifism/Caste and got out a Great Merchant.

Meanwhile, all the barbarians I fought with my war chariots meant that I had several level-4 units and was able to build the HE.

I read some of the posts here before starting the war and learned that the continent was large enough to enable a domination win.

So my plan was to wipe both England and Babylon off the map.

I got a peace treaty with Babylon and then attacked England, reducing her to 2 cities. I took peace with England for Economics to help keep my economy afloat and to attack Babylon while I retained my military tech lead.

Babylon went down very quickly, his last city falling just as my peace treaty with England ended. I wiped out England, popped out 2 more settlers to ensure that I blanketed the entire continent and waited for the cities I conquered to come out of revolt.

I finished in 1625AD with a domination win and my 2nd highest civ4 score.

 

[dalamb]

4000-1350 BC
1350 BC - 415 AD

Monarch, Huts+Events, 1405 AD domination and my best score yet, but...

Spoiler :

I tried to play as though I didn't know you could dominate on the original continent, but I'm sure that was at the back of my mind. In any case I kept with a gonna-go-to-space strategy (keeping up the tech race) until I got the "your population has exceeded the domination limit" message.

I built up a large army of cats and macemen, but by the time I was ready to attack Hammy had longbows, which ate lots of the cats. I took 4 cities before taking peace, meanwhile building lots of trebs. When I had enough trebs I switched to building settlers to backfill my western territory, basically just placing settlers and holding them until I conquered Hammy and building them all at once. I had to put some in lousy locations just to get coverage, and run artists in some of hammy's cities until they expanded to the third ring. So it felt kind of unnatural --but a win is a win, and in my case finishing a game at all is a big win.

 

[mighty gandhi]

Fantastic map,you can try everything you want.

Spoiler :

Once taken out Izzy to the south,ton of land to settle.Then no match with civ on my continent.Eazy vassaled and then trying for space victory,couple turn before completed the U.N. gave me the diplo victory